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My Crap Bass


wishface
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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346968025' post='1795597']
And that would be perfectly fine were it not for the fact that you are still doing it right here: you are again misrepresenting what I said even as you offer an apology for doing so. You are telling me that I have said the majority of people posting here are not getting what I said. Please do not speak for other people, certainly not in this kind of adversarial fashion. I'm afraid I cannot accept an apology offerened under those terms. If you don't wish to continue, having pushed me into a course of action that was not, shall we say, particularly helpful, well that's your choice. Consequently I would recommend you use whatever ignore fucntion this forum has and place me on it. I certainly don't need to be told multiple times about how ungrateful I apparently am, and how you don't intend to respond to me.
[/quote]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][b]
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1795595"][/url]thebrig, on 06 September 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:[/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]

I think it's time to bail out, as it seems that the majority of us, are not getting what the OP really means when he writes something.

I would like to apologise for any misreading/interpretation of your posts by me.[/size][/font][/color]

Where in these two lines have I said that "[u][i][b]you[/b][/i][/u][i] [b]have said the majority of people posting here are not getting what I said[/b][/i]"?

And I was not [b][i]talking[/i][/b] for [b][i]other[/i][/b] people, I was merely making an observation that[size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [b][i]it seems that the majority of [u]us[/u], are not getting what the OP really means when he writes something[/i][/b], which is accepting that maybe [b][i]some people,[/i][/b] and [b][i]me[/i][/b] in particular, are [/font][/color][/size][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b][i]misreading[/i][/b] or [b][i]misinterpreting[/i][/b] your posts, and if that's the case, then [i][b]I/me[/b][/i] would like to apologise, but if you don't want to accept my apology, that's up to you, I wont lose any sleep over it.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I offered you what I considered to be some useful advice when I said "[/font][/color][b][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]you don't need to take the strings off completely, you can just loosen them off enough to pull them away to each side of the pickup, then you can get to the pickup easily.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]You can either replace the foam, of try trimming it down so that the pickup screws down further than what it did, and then just keep adjusting the height until you get all the strings balanced correctly[/font][/color][/i][/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif],[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] obviously, without actually seeing what's under the pickup, I have to go on what I have found with some of my guitars in the past, just looking at it should tell whether you can make any changes to the foam or not.[/font][/color]

[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]This advice was offered by me in "good faith", and I find it disappointing for you to say that (your words), "[/color][/font][b][i]I[/i][/b][b][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] pushed you into a course of action that was not, shall we say, particularly helpful[/font][/color][/i][/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]", if that's the case, then maybe from now on, we should all be on our guard when offering advice on Basschat, although that would be a great shame, as I find the help and advice people on here willingly offer, is what makes Basschat such a great forum.[/font][/color]

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[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1347006495' post='1795816']
OK I think this is getting a bit out of hand. I appreciate you just want some help, and lots of people are chipping in and trying to help, but perhaps it is not the help that you need.
Wishface, it seems the two issues at play (besides the cheapness of the bass) are that you don't have the money to get this sorted by somebody else, and you don't have the knowledge/time to sort it yourself, is that right?

It looks like the thing to try at this stage is a new set of strings before we go any further, its a simple job to replace the strings, but as you say you can't afford them.

PM me your address Wishface (click on my name and send me a private message), I will send you a brand new set of Rotosound strings I have here on the shelf.

That way, you can rule out the strings being the issue and we can go from there, step by step until we help you get your bass working the way you want it. Trust us when we say you CAN approximate a silk purse out of a sow's ear with the right knowledge and tools, and we are all here to help you do that, really.
[/quote]

What a fine chap, good on yer :)

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Sticking to the technical aspect of the matter, I also believe that the strings are the problem here. I have had the same problem with some of my basses, and invariably the too loud (or too quite) string was entirely due to the type/make/material of the strings i was using. I have found rotosounds to have weaker E than others, and EB slinkies to have the opposite effect. If you're not taking up the offer of a set of strings, I recommend you just replace the single E string to verify that indeed that is the root of the problem.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346788920' post='1793344']
I don't own a very good instrument, unfortunately. At least that's how it feels. It's made by Spector, but i couldn't tell you waht the model is (it has no number and i've long forgotten). It was cheap.

The problem I have specifically is that the bass feels 'wrong' when I wear it. It's as if the weight is off centre. Playing around and above the 12th fret is uncomfortable as a result. it doesn't matter whether I have it high or low (usually high because it's uncomfortable to play when slung low anyway). The neck feels a bit too wide, and although I've lowered the action considerably (it was never that high) the E string (4 string) feels heavy and high on the neck, exacerbating the 12th fret issue. In fact it's really the E string that's problematic. The intonation, high, isn't great, but that's to be expected with cheap instruments.

The reason I post this isn't to have a moan; there's nothing I can do about it anyway I certainly can't afford a better instrument and liklely never will. But it's to try and get some feedback on those problems. I would love to know whether my performance and development are limited by me or the instrument (or both). At least if I knew those sorts of issues were solely the purview of cheap instruments that would be a help. Conversely if I knew I had a rock solid instrument I would know that whatever problems I have as a player were thigns I could work on and practice.

If that makes any sense.
[/quote]

I think the fundamental issue here may not be cheap vs. not-cheap... maybe that bass is just not the type for you.
Basses, cheap and expensive come in many different forms, shapes, neck profiles... I'd try as many as possible, until you find one that feels more "at home" for you.

One of my first bases was a Warwick Corvette $$. Not exactly a "crap bass". But it never felt right to me. I found that Stingrays and Jazz basses do feel right to me, even if they're different from eachother, and even if I play a cheap Squier or a more expensive Fender... the style feels right for me.

Go forth and explore :)

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@wishface:

Where, EXACTLY, do you live? There are a lot of member offering to take a look at your bass but nobody knows if they are near you or not! I obviously can't help because i'm in a different country. Tell us where you live (city, village, etc.) and is very likely that one of the members will be on your part of the woods soon and can help you with your problem.

From what i've been reading i don't think you should pursue your bass's setup alone any further, it's obvious that you're lacking experience in this area and the best way for you to learn is to be next to somebody who knows what he's (or she's ;) ) doing and observe how things are done and listen to explanations.

Everybody on this thread is willing to help you but you must understand that it's a bit frustrating to be explaining you something and recieve an answer saying that you done things only to some point and won't do anything more even if the inicial problem still exists. This is why the comments about "defeat" and "layzyness" started to appear. I understand that you don't want to reck you bass but you need to understand that people are offering sound advice and nobody here want's to make you reck it. Please offer the other members the same compreension and respect you are asking for yourself. This is a great forum full with great people, all with a common passion, bass!

Please stop arguing with other members the same way that they need to stop arguing with you, let's focus on the main thing, your bass!


So lets start this thing again from scratch? Can we? Tell us were you live and we'll start seeing how we can find a way to get your bass to somebody's knowledgeable hands! We'll pick up after that.

Cheers

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Back to the bass... Questions to answer:

1) Hold down the string at the first and last fret. What is the gap under the string at the 12th fret?
2) You said the strings slipped when you took them off, can I ask how many times they go around the posts of the tuners?
3) how low are the saddles on the bridge? - whats the downward angle like?
4) Can I ask what else you have been reading/watching in terms of setup, there is the possibility we are telling you things you already know and it seems patronising.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347003078' post='1795771']
I also didn't say the bass wasn't any good.
[/quote]

The title of your thread is "MY CRAP BASS" - if that's not saying your bass isn't any good then I'd like to know what is.

There are lots of people on here genuinely trying to help you out & I've got to say that your attitude towards them stinks.

I've given you the benefit of the doubt until now but I honestly think you're just trolling.

Please don't bother posting another one of your "I'm terribly hurt & nobody understands me" responses to this - I've read enough of them already.

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[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1347016041' post='1795992']
The title of your thread is "MY CRAP BASS" - if that's not saying your bass isn't any good then I'd like to know what is.

There are lots of people on here genuinely trying to help you out & I've got to say that your attitude towards them stinks.

I've given you the benefit of the doubt until now but I honestly think you're just trolling.

Please don't bother posting another one of your "I'm terribly hurt & nobody understands me" responses to this - I've read enough of them already.
[/quote]

I thought we were trying to calm things down and get back to the problem in hand? :huh:

This has become a very bizarre thread. :unsure: There have been selfless offers of personal assistance and petty abuse in the space of a few pages. Very odd.

Edited by Conan
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[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1347006495' post='1795816']
OK I think this is getting a bit out of hand. I appreciate you just want some help, and lots of people are chipping in and trying to help, but perhaps it is not the help that you need.
Wishface, it seems the two issues at play (besides the cheapness of the bass) are that you don't have the money to get this sorted by somebody else, and you don't have the knowledge/time to sort it yourself, is that right?

It looks like the thing to try at this stage is a new set of strings before we go any further, its a simple job to replace the strings, but as you say you can't afford them.

PM me your address Wishface (click on my name and send me a private message), I will send you a brand new set of Rotosound strings I have here on the shelf.

That way, you can rule out the strings being the issue and we can go from there, step by step until we help you get your bass working the way you want it. Trust us when we say you CAN approximate a silk purse out of a sow's ear with the right knowledge and tools, and we are all here to help you do that, really.
[/quote]Thank you, i'll send the details. What guage are the strings?

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1347011159' post='1795896']
I am in the middle of Devon if that's anywhere near you, I will fix your bass up and make you a cup of tea if you can get over here. :)
A £300 odd quid spector is not a cheap bass by my very cheap standards, and we can make it play just fine.
[/quote]
It's about the next step up from a beginner or entry level isntrument. Whether it can be made fine remains to be seen, but there's being playable and there's having a decent tone and no problems that inhibit play. That doesn't mean you need to have the msot e4xpensive top brand parts endorsed by the current top players. It means having an instrument where the limitations are those born by the player not the bass.
I'm afraid i live nowhere near Devon, but thanks anyway.
[quote name='razze06' timestamp='1347011579' post='1795907']
Sticking to the technical aspect of the matter, I also believe that the strings are the problem here. I have had the same problem with some of my basses, and invariably the too loud (or too quite) string was entirely due to the type/make/material of the strings i was using. I have found rotosounds to have weaker E than others, and EB slinkies to have the opposite effect. If you're not taking up the offer of a set of strings, I recommend you just replace the single E string to verify that indeed that is the root of the problem.
[/quote]It could be down to all sorts of reasons, it seems likely that the quality of the pickup may be the case. Perhaps it has worn out over use. I don't remember the sound levels when i first played it, i've had it for ten years. However as i play over the pickup it maybe the accumulated gunk having an effect on it's ability to hear the higher frequencies more clearly.

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[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1347016041' post='1795992']
The title of your thread is "MY CRAP BASS" - if that's not saying your bass isn't any good then I'd like to know what is.

There are lots of people on here genuinely trying to help you out & I've got to say that your attitude towards them stinks.

I've given you the benefit of the doubt until now but I honestly think you're just trolling.

Please don't bother posting another one of your "I'm terribly hurt & nobody understands me" responses to this - I've read enough of them already.
[/quote]I'm saying that i've had problems with it because it's a low cost instrument. Low cost relative the price of instruments in general, that is.
I'll post as I please. If you don't like it then don't respond. Certainly don't post just to say that you think someone is trolling because that's exactly what you're doing.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347017100' post='1796012']
It could be down to all sorts of reasons, it seems likely that the quality of the pickup may be the case. Perhaps it has worn out over use. I don't remember the sound levels when i first played it, i've had it for ten years. However as i play over the pickup it maybe the accumulated gunk having an effect on it's ability to hear the higher frequencies more clearly.
[/quote]

Didn't you say it was an EMG? They are top quality pickups and as your bass appears to only be around 15 years old, it is highly unlikey that the pickup would have experienced any kind of deterioration... IME anyway!

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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1347016568' post='1796003']
I thought we were trying to calm things down and get back to the problem in hand? :huh:

This has become a very bizarre thread. :unsure: There have been selfless offers of personal assistance and petty abuse in the space of a few pages. Very odd.
[/quote]And, [i]again, [/i]all of those offers have been politely declined for valid reasons with appropriate gratitude.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347017100' post='1796012']
It could be down to all sorts of reasons, it seems likely that the quality of the pickup may be the case. Perhaps it has worn out over use. I don't remember the sound levels when i first played it, i've had it for ten years. However as i play over the pickup it maybe the accumulated gunk having an effect on it's ability to hear the higher frequencies more clearly.
[/quote]

The quality of the pickup is unlikely to be a problem. Reduction in response could be blamed on individual polepieces getting unstuck, wire windings slipping or just deteriorating, but it would appear to me that increases in volumes are unlikely to happen because of pickup deterioration.

I can absolutely confirm that I had the same identical problem with one of my basses (the CMI Ned Callan, and old and strange beast), and the solution was to go for a slightly bigger gauge and different make. Anything by rotosound sounded poor on it. The bass itself is unlikely to be the problem, the string is. Good luck!

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[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1347015065' post='1795978']
Back to the bass... Questions to answer:

1) Hold down the string at the first and last fret. What is the gap under the string at the 12th fret?
2) You said the strings slipped when you took them off, can I ask how many times they go around the posts of the tuners?
3) how low are the saddles on the bridge? - whats the downward angle like?
4) Can I ask what else you have been reading/watching in terms of setup, there is the possibility we are telling you things you already know and it seems patronising.
[/quote]

can you answer these please?

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346964880' post='1795541']
Right i've just dug the pickup out and there was only a tiny bit of foam glued to the bottom which i've scraped off as best I can. It hasn't really made any difference to the height at all, nor to the sound of the E string. Replacing it wasn't easy and I've a horrible feeling ive squashed the wired by screwing it back as the springs around the screws came loose. Fortunately it all still works. But there wasn't anything there to work with, removing the foam hasn't made any noticeable difference at all, but then it was screwed in tight anyway.
[/quote]


reading through the thread, catching up...

by your previous posts, your being reluctant to remove the pickup in the first place and having done so, saying it was not easy... I reach the conclusion that you don't particularly enjoy fiddling with these things nor are particularly adpet if you need to.
No problem. Hey, some people enjoy this, some don't, we're not equal.

At this stage I'd say what others have already: take it to a tech.
You'd be amazed at what someone who does these things for a living can do to a bass, in little time and for little money... it'll be like getting an entirely new instrument. Believe me! :)

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[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1347015065' post='1795978']
Back to the bass... Questions to answer:

1) Hold down the string at the first and last fret. What is the gap under the string at the 12th fret?
2) You said the strings slipped when you took them off, can I ask how many times they go around the posts of the tuners?
3) how low are the saddles on the bridge? - whats the downward angle like?
4) Can I ask what else you have been reading/watching in terms of setup, there is the possibility we are telling you things you already know and it seems patronising.
[/quote]
1.about 3mm
2. I didn't take the strings off to get to the pickup i loosened them. the strings slip when i put them on the first place. It takes a while to get them to stay in tune. Most of the strings go around a couple of times.
3. the saddles vary in height, not by much, but the highest is about a mm up. They don't have an angle as they are round shaped.
4. nothing, though i knew roughly about intonation before. the only problem is moving the saddles without using my fingers.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346967654' post='1795594'] And, again, I have been nothing but polite and friendly in response. And for the third time i THANKED you for your offer. Yet this is now the second time you've decided to throw that back in my face and tell me how much you don't want to help me.Never mind the fact that my understandable and reaosnable reluctance to tinker with something as delicate as a pickup on the only bass I own is met with derision and accusations of being ungrateful.Never mind the fact that following that advice was not successful, any follow up on the result of that advice will not be forthcoming because you and your friend have decided to chuck your toys out the pram. I don't particularly regard that as helpful at all, sir. The foam at the base of the pickup is glued to the thing and is placed there for a very good reason that I'm surprised you both chose not to mention. It's there to stop the pickup wire getting crushed by the pickup when it's screwd in place, which is now what's going to happen if i tighten it. [/quote]

woah... easy there. All of you! :lol:

as for the foam: its purpose is not to avoid damaging the cable. You would not damage it anyway as you would never screw it down deep into the body. The foam is there to provide a somewhat flexible support so that you can screw the pickup into the body to the height you require, and the foam will exert some force upwards, so that the pickup will be in place and not move. If you unscrew it slightly, the foam will gently push it up too, to some extent. It may require more foam sometimes.. or as I do, I add a bit of cardboard to the bottom instead, if I need the pickup higher than I can adjust it.
Some pickups use springs alone to do that.
I prefer foam, the pickup stays in place better, once you get it where you want it.
Nothing very delicate about the pickups (do not remove the covers unless you have a reason to do so, to avoid damaging the coil windings, as some pickups protect them with tape but some don't). Other than that, just be gentle, don't pull hard etc... but there's nothing truly delicate there.
Having said that... better to be too careful than careless... as long as it does not prevent you from achieving your goals.

I was once a bit scared to open up a guitar... do you know how I cured myself? I dismantled it completely!!! :lol:

Losing that fear has saved me a lot of money over the years, as electric guitars are very simple things, electronically, and bolt-on neck ones, even better when it comes to doing set ups etc. There is nothing you can really damage there, as long as you have some minimum amount of common sense (if a truss rod nut is tight, don't insist on forcing it at all costs, etc)

Having said that, it's also cost me money, for I love buying cheaper instruments and tinker with them forever ;)

People here are trying to help you. Sometimes misunderstandings occur. It happens. Let's not escalate it unnecessarily. This forum is a great resource, I hope you get to enjoy it fully.

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[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1347022847' post='1796123']


reading through the thread, catching up...

by your previous posts, your being reluctant to remove the pickup in the first place and having done so, saying it was not easy... I reach the conclusion that you don't particularly enjoy fiddling with these things nor are particularly adpet if you need to.
No problem. Hey, some people enjoy this, some don't, we're not equal.

At this stage I'd say what others have already: take it to a tech.
You'd be amazed at what someone who does these things for a living can do to a bass, in little time and for little money... it'll be like getting an entirely new instrument. Believe me! :)
[/quote]I'm sure a qualified reputable techie could make some improvements. But i'm not one and I don't know any. If I took the guitar into a shop they'd probably charge me the earth, assuming a shop that's available has repair facilities. Their used to be a luthier that owned a shop (I won't name them) in a town near me, but he was a bit of a pisshead. I live in a rural area there aren't shops nor luthiers here. Big cities have shops but i've never been much enamoured with them as they are often full of people with egos who like to charge lots of money to people that they know don't know as much as them.

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[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1346968300' post='1795604']
My claim of you not reading things properly is nicely backed up here firstly by you calling me sir, when just to the left here it clearly states that I'm female. [/quote]

maybe you wrote 'female' in an ironic way... :P

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1346968300' post='1795604']
And secondly because if you bother to go back and read my posts you will see that the suggestion to take out the foam was not mine. I wouldn't have told you that because I wouldn't do that myself.
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with removing the foam.
On old pickups teh foam can get all squished and... useless. Easy to remove and use new one.

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[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1347033254' post='1796290']
(if a truss rod nut is tight, don't insist on forcing it at all costs, etc)
[/quote]Bit late for that. Anyway, i'm not going to adjust it anymore. The neck is fairly straight and the action is low enough that before changing strings it would be counter productive to continue. I can't lower the strings much more anyway as doing so induces some very slight fretbuzz around the 12th fret on the D and the A.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347003078' post='1795771']
I also didn't say the bass wasn't any good. I said it was a cheap bass, which it is. it has limitations on what can be done with it. It plays the way it plays.
[/quote]

you are right that you can't have the same expectations from a cheap than from an expensive bass, but the differences are often overexaggerated.

Providing you have something decent to start with, structurally sound etc, which your Spector will be, you can still make it play very very smoothly and nicely.

I think it's a shame when people write off an instrument as "ah well, it's not very good, it'll never be much better than it is now"... although on the other hand it's served me to buy cheaply something I could make to play beautifully a couple of hours later.

Granted you don't have the experience and knowledge to improve your bass significantly by yourself. Then do yourself a favour and take it to a good tech. They can look at it and tell you what they can do and how much it would cost you. You will probably find it's not a lot of money... and when you get it back you will try more expensive instruments in a shop and think "my cheaper bass plays better than this".
Seen it many times.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347033131' post='1796289']
1.about 3mm
[/quote]

that seems a lot to me...
is this between bottom of the string to fingerboard, or bottom of the string to top of 12th fret?

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347033131' post='1796289']

2. I didn't take the strings off to get to the pickup i loosened them. the strings slip when i put them on the first place. It takes a while to get them to stay in tune. Most of the strings go around a couple of times.

[/quote]

it would be very useful if you could post a clear picture how you put the strings, how they are wound around the post.

When I do it, the tuning is stable from the start, and I rarely go more than 1-2 turns. Right now, in fact, I have one bass where one string does not even have a full turn! (I cut it too short by mistake)... it works just fine.
If you put the string through the hole, all the way down into the post, then a sharp turn out, and sharp again to wind around the post... those kinks will hold the string tightly... add a couple of turns and that thing wil not slip.

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347033131' post='1796289']
4. nothing, though i knew roughly about intonation before. the only problem is moving the saddles without using my fingers.
[/quote]

I tend to move them with my fingers, or pushing with a screw driver. It's normal. If you loosen the strings a bit, then turn the screw as required to make the saddle moe forward or backward... push with your finger if you have to to make the sadde sit in the new location, retighten string and measure tuning... repeat as needed.

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[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1347033437' post='1796295']
Nothing wrong with removing the foam.
On old pickups teh foam can get all squished and... useless. Easy to remove and use new one.
[/quote]

That's why I didn't advise against it either. I don't know much about the function of the foam, which is why I didn't say to remove it, but I also didn't advise against it. I know quite a bit, enough to make almost any bass play great, but there are folk on here who know much more than me of course.

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[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1347033403' post='1796294']
I'm sure a qualified reputable techie could make some improvements. But i'm not one and I don't know any. If I took the guitar into a shop they'd probably charge me the earth, assuming a shop that's available has repair facilities. Their used to be a luthier that owned a shop (I won't name them) in a town near me, but he was a bit of a pisshead. I live in a rural area there aren't shops nor luthiers here. Big cities have shops but i've never been much enamoured with them as they are often full of people with egos who like to charge lots of money to people that they know don't know as much as them.
[/quote]

yeah, definitely don't take it to the pisshead :lol:
and I would not go to just any shop. Many (not all, but enough of them to make me wary) just have a guy who will do a couple of half-arsed adjustments and take £45 for it.

If you state your exact location (I don't mean coordinates or even your address, a town is enough), maybe someone in the vicinity can recommend someone. Other than that, or in addition to that, I'd try to research online and find someone who has a reputation, who gets good reviews.
A luthier, a real one, can be great, even if they don't work with electric basses.

I met such person in my city once, years ago... he told me I was his first bass. But the man knew about stringed instruments and had the tools etc. He did a beautiful set up on my bass, which I could only manage to get right to certain extent. He identified a couple of uneven frets, so he levelled them all nicely, he also rounded the edges of the fingerboard for me... very very slightly, making the ends of teh frets smoother than they were too... and it was just beautiful. He was proud of his work, so he showed me around, the instruments he built, and generally taught me a lot. I loved it.
So, I would try that if you can't find a tech that comes recommended in your area. It can be a great experience, in addition to getting your bass in great condition.

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