Compression pedals

[Jigster]

Hi all

I'm considering a compression pedal, but can anyone advise how effective they are on one's sound once the bass is fed through a band PA set up. Almost all the gigs I play are through said band PA with house sound engineer tweaking sound etc..

So there'll be a degree of compression added to my sound by the sound engineer right? as he feeds through the PA? My question is how noticeable would the settings I use on my compresor pedal still be to the out front sound?

Cheers

[janmaat]

If you use the compressor on stage, that is before the PA, it will of course effect the sound that goes to the board. The sound man is going to love you for that

[51m0n]

All the soundguy wants is good strong even level in the bass.

If you use a compression pedal or a dustbin to help, he doesnt care, he may well add more compression (or not), and he will almost certainly eq your bass to fit it into the mix better.

The only time he will be upset by use of a compressor before the sound gets to him is if it adds a lot of noise.

And yes whatever you add/remove with fx, if they are before the DI or the mic on the cab then they will change the signal that he gets.

[ironside1966]

The simple answer is it depends on how the pedal is set.
Why do you want a compressor pedal? If you want it to change the sound that is fine.
If all you want to do is make your bass sit in the mix better the just leave it to the engineers has they can make judgements in a context of the mix. Also the outboard gear will probably be better quality then a peddle. lastly it is not uncommon for an engineer to tweak compressors has you playing changers through the show.

[RichF]

hi mate, why do you think you need a compressor pedal? Serious question, I have been adding and removing my compressor from my board for the last few weeks and asking for views on sound. I use soft comps for recording both on bass signal and in mix etc, but maybe the gigs I play and my style but struggling to see the benefit of a comp on my board. Just looking for your thoughts.

Edited July 18, 2012 by RichF

[Jigster]

yeah I'm not sure tbh - I have always played with nothing, but gigged with a band last week and the guy got some great sounds out of his jazz - he was only using a compressor and EQ no effects as such - but his sound was tight and solid - got me wondering - but that's sort of my question, cos if the sound guy for example adds compression anyway, what is anyone out front really hearing of what the one on stage is doing?

[chrismuzz]

I use a compressor to make my bass tighter, and to keep the level even so if I try a little tapping I don't have a massive drop in volume, and if i beat the hell out of the B string I don't blow everyone off the stage

5im0n's response pretty much answers your question perfectly

[ironside1966]

It depends on how loud the back line is compared to the PA. and how large the venue is.
in a moderate size venue with a reasonably loud band you get a lot of spill from stage any way so a lot of the time you are just reinforcing the back line. Some bands play really quiet and let the PA do the work. Compression will not improve a bass sound but will but can help even the dynamics. once your sound has bounced of a few walls I would doubt that it will make any difference but with a PA you can Put some of the definition back and a compressor will help. Hope that makes sense.
My guess it the sound you herd form the other bass player was down to a good technique and control rather then mechanical means

[ironside1966]

Sometimes people use compression to aid their performance.
I have remixed quite a lot of home recorded tracks for bands over the years and one of the biggest problems is over use of compression. often less is more and if you can hear it is too much.
Better to use too little then too much

[SlapbassSteve]

I try to use one when I can, keeps levels consistant and means I can play my bass at the level where it sounds best and gives that proper Jazz farty 'growl' sound without any really harsh peaks. I'm pretty sure the likes of Geddy Lee Flea and Tony Levin use shedloads too and it contributes quite a bit to their individual tones. Sledgehammer would be a rather more subdued affair without it!

Probably depends on what you're playing and how you want to sound though.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1342644784' post='1738718']
Tony Levin
[/quote]

Most. Compression. Ever.

[RichF]

[quote name='Jigster' timestamp='1342642170' post='1738629']
yeah I'm not sure tbh - I have always played with nothing, but gigged with a band last week and the guy got some great sounds out of his jazz - he was only using a compressor and EQ no effects as such - but his sound was tight and solid - got me wondering - but that's sort of my question, cos if the sound guy for example adds compression anyway, what is anyone out front really hearing of what the one on stage is doing?
[/quote]

that's fair enough. I would see if you can borrow a decent comp pedal and do some testing. Get feedback from band, audience, sound guy. Or do what most on here do, just blow £150 on something you are not sure you need! I have so much sh*t I dont even know what some of it does.

[51m0n]

A well set up compressor can make the bass be heard with far more clarity in the mix against the real evil that we compete with, the kick drum

On this forum there is so much guitar hate, and yes in certain genres the guitar is a real frequency pig in the mix, but in more live mixes than not the real centre piece of the sound guy's world is the kick, it is usually mixed to be insanely loud, totally drowning out the bass. It is not uncommon on a really big rig to duck the bass around the kick, to help it stand out (happens a lot in recording to, but you get to be extrememly scientific with it).

So how can a compressor help you?

Well for one thing it can help to even out the level between the attack stage and the sustain stage of every note you play, by boosting the sustain stage in comparison with the attack level. This helps because it gives the part of the note after the transient more volume for longer, so the bass can be heard better after the kick, and is stronger for longer on every note.

You can also use a limiter to control extreme peaks in the attack phase as well, allowing you to get more gain out of your rig, which in turn means you hear yourself better on stage, and present the engineer with a more controlled signal, far less likely to cause his precious 20K rig an issue. In which case he is more likely to turn you up louder in the mix, if he believes your signal to be better/easier to handle.

Finally if you are a player who tends to change timbre, either with pickup selection, playing style, or effects, a compressor can help you to achieve a more even output in each case, again giving you the best chance to be there in the mix.

Its not the be all and end all, and by set up well I mean its doing its job, but you cant feel it, or hear it working [i][u][b]until its in the mix[/b][/u][/i], butin the mix suddenly you can hear the bass 'properly' all through the set.

Very hard to do without metering and a fully featured comrpessor, but not impossible if you really know what you are doing. If you dont know how to listen for compression I would recommend a cheaper rack unit (Alesis 3630 or a dbx unit) and learn to use that properly in context. It ownt matter that its a rack unit in your fx loop, because we are talking about always on compression.

And lastly a well set up compressor will not, in any way, prevent you from playing with dynamics. That is just not the case. A poorly set up compressor may do to a certain extent, but it would have to be fairly extreme settings (more than 6dB of gain reduction, with a highish ratio, and you start to achieve compression as effect rather than just an aid to being heard in the mix).

It is quite possible that the bassist you saw really knew his beans about setting up a compressor, and that helped you really hear his playing so well, even in a club, even with sound bouncing off walls, and I dare say, the ceiling too.....

[Lozz196]

I seem to keep buying compressors, using them for a while, then selling them. I do notice a difference when using them, as all I want from them is to even out the difference between the strings - which is no doubt caused by my heavy handed playing - mainly in reducing the excess boom on the lower strings. However, I`ve just bought an SFX Micro Thumpinator (high pass filter), and hopefully this will tighten things up in this area.

I suppose it boils down to, I want to have a compressor, but I don`t want too many pedals/settings etc. The SFX is either on or off, and this suits me better, operationally. I may well find that it wasn`t compression I was after - I`ll update after this eve, when I use the SFX for the first time.

[Guest teamcoy]

Lozz196, I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the thumpinator.

I am in the same boat, like the idea of a compressor but never really cracked what exactly it is what I want/need from one. Regularly get compliments on my sound but have been wondering if the thumpinator may help.

Cheers.

[highwayone]

I use one as being an ex drummer I tend to thump the hell out of the bass on heavier songs/parts of songs so it evens out sound(and it does work thankfully! til I get a bit less heavy handed anyways!!)

[Prime_BASS]

different compressors will add/substract different qualities.
I use a tube compressor as the tube still adds the harmionic distortion that you get from preamp tubes. The sound girl we have been having recently has loved me for having a good even bass sound, all thanks to the compressor, and because of this she sends my sound through with minimal EQ change, which is what I like.

I also told her about my SFX thumpinator and how it'll help her desk and PA subs be more efficient, she likes this also. She usually has retards turn up with a horribly setup bass tuned C# that have the worlds worst technique, so you can imagine the sonic abuse the desk gets.

There are a crap tonne of compressors out there you just need to find the best one for you. I hate signal or two knob compressors as I need to control over attak and release and threshold.

The best compressors out there are (IMO) Trex squeezer the markbass compressore and the TC nova dynamics thing.

[Guest teamcoy]

Does anyone in the Leeds area have a thumpinator that I could try?

Happy to throw something your way for the trouble?

[Lozz196]

[quote name='teamcoy' timestamp='1342863184' post='1741931']
Lozz196, I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the thumpinator.

I am in the same boat, like the idea of a compressor but never really cracked what exactly it is what I want/need from one. Regularly get compliments on my sound but have been wondering if the thumpinator may help.

Cheers.
[/quote]

Well I`d like to offer my opinion, but having used my Stingray for the first time on Thurs, I liked it so much as it was, decided I didn`t want to change anything, so sold the thumpinator. Sorry bout that.

[Guest teamcoy]

Ah, fair enough, cheers for coming back.

[ironside1966]

If you look at a great bass sound from a live engineers point of view a great bass sound starts from a good arrangement, by that I mean it is not fighting for space by trying to compete with the other instruments.
The next important part is the bass players technique, Notes played cleanly with the correct amount of attach, notes not ringing into each other (unless that the sound your after) and of course in time and tune with feel.
Then it is down to good EQ of the amp, again you need a setting that allows the bass to do its job but leavening sonic space for the rest of the band IE if you want a in your face bass drum that flaps trousers then you need to leave space for the drum to cut through. The Esq. also needs to be adjusted for the room. Amp placement and decoupling can make a big difference also to the perceived tightness of the sound.
if you don't get the things mention above right no amount of compression will give you a tight sound.
What people forget is that compression changers the envelope of the sound, it can kill the initial transacts if used badly and it doesn't take allot. I have also that using too much compression can make it difficult to mix because that can eat up too much sonic space.
Has a live engineer I would rather the bass player leave the compression to me but if the bass players wants to use a pedal that fine but In my opinion the advantages of having full control over compression at the desk far out way getting a fully compressed signal.
Maybe a good discussion to have is what are the pros and cons of compression at the amp stage rather than the desk.

Edited July 22, 2012 by ironside1966

[funky8884]

Buy an Effectrode PC-2A and all your problems will be solved !

Just be careful with the Peak Reduction Knob.

[paulo m]

hello everyone" ive looked at a gaggle of compression pedals
from expensivo to not so" and my take is this if you can hear it working your using TOO MUCH
great to enhance the tightness of the sound" but for me" they are pretty much
set it and forget it.

i use the boss limiter enhancer LMB thingamybob and guess what..... its a useable tool at a great price!!!!

[Dave Tipping]

When playing rock / punk covers I never used to use any compression at all ... since playing in a funk and soul band I find a bit of compression in my fx loop (after my amps pre-amp) helps keep the volume up when I'm playing fast runs softly and helps reduce the sound when I'm slapping and popping.

[Kesh]

Is it true that optical compressors are banned by the EU?