Band Dilemna. How good...??

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1335436234' post='1630954']
I had the same problem last Christmas. We're very good, audiences love us, but not good enough that promoters are beating a path to our door. We could easily be so much better but that will require more work.

I've still got the shrapnel wounds from when I suggested rehearsals, a new set and putting more effort in to the band!!

Apparently, and unfortunately, the band seems to have already reached it's peak. It's a good band to be playing in and I’ve got no thoughts about leaving, but I'm disappointed that we have reached the "top", a good 50% short of what we could have achieved with a little more effort.

Some people are easily satisfied or just plain lazy. I’ve always wanted to be in the “biggest pond”, even if I’m only a “little fish”. We all have limits, but it’s a shame when the cause is the lack of ambition of others.
[/quote]

Same sort of thing... we get good promoters deals offered and do well at these types gigs...but less so at the pubs..which we are willing to pass on, for better quality work.
I hate the idea of letting this pass just for a modicum of extra effort but I have had great track suggestions, IMO, passed over but all the while people saying that they want to concentrate on higher paid work.
to which I ask..well which one is it..better gigs or the same gigs..and what are you willing to put in to justify asking for x £ for y work..??

[JTUK]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1335443644' post='1631188']
There's always going to be differences in a band.

JT, I know your pain and in the end we decided to replace the one person who wasn't on the same page in terms of getting the band to the best it can be. We've spent the last year getting the line up right and we have a good unit that everyone is happy with.
Latest dilemma is that some want to do more gigs than others, this is due to the fact that some have day jobs while others don't. Like I said, there's always going to be something. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you can live with it or not?

People will put the effort in sometimes when pushed, for a little while but I always remember what my dad said to me about working with others...
"You can only trust people to be themselves and you shouldn't expect any more or any less from them."
[/quote]

yes..quite true... I think it may well end up a power struggle...and whether I can be arsed with that.
Also, I do know that external pressure on one or two people/players will probably make it a good time for them to leave as well....

The good thing about venting here is that it gives you the chance AND TIME to think things through and then accept that the band isn't their/our whole life, just a nice little part of it..and somethings are way more important...
So if it remains fun, then that is as much as we can really want... as there will always be compromises.

I do think I'll start the ball rolling for project number 2 tho.... just in case :lol; :lol;

Edited April 26, 2012 by JTUK

[BassBus]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1335443349' post='1631177']
Yes..it is beginning to nag at me... I don't want to leave, or have to start again, but I feel this is the start of a slippery slope and its a question of how I try and bury that feeling...or will I be able
I do know I know the right people and think I can get the players together ...but with new people comes new 'baggage'
[/quote]

Burying feelings will never work. I see this again and again with my counselling clients. That's why people come to see me. They have buried feelings. But they have never gone away and end up becoming stuck in life.

How is burying your feelings going to help your playing with this band? You don't want to leave but you have other musicians who you can play with. You are concerned about where your current band is going in your mind. Then you are concerned about new "baggage" with new musicians. You see a slippery slope with the current band.

I get the feeling your mind is going one way.

[Leonard Smalls]

Lawks! 6 rehearsals a year? That's pretty much professional as far as my 2 bands are concerned.
One is a funk rock band doing 30% covers - we're lucky if we get 1 rehearsal a year (as one guitarist is in the south of France) where we'll usually write/work out 3 new songs. And gig soundcheck is a chance to quickly run through anything we're a bit worried by.
And the other band doesn't rehearse at all; we have a list of songs, ranging from Hendrix to John Coltrane that we all decide on by email though no=one decides what key, speed, feel etc until we're actually playing it. Luckily it's meant to be improvisation!
Still, it would be nice to get together a few more times with both...

[Truckstop]

Well some people want different things out of their bands innit.

For example. I'm happy to wear DJs and play in hotels, my guitarist is happy playing rock covers in spit and sawdust pubs! So we mix up our gigs and setlist so we're all happy

Truckstop

[BottomE]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1335447133' post='1631306']
Well some people want different things out of their bands innit.

[/quote]
Thats about the size of it. Factor in that what we want as people/musos changes over time too. Compromise.

[Bigwan]

I wrestled with this in a pub band and it really wore me down, to the point that I quit. The annoying thing was that any time I tried to improve the situation I was labelled as being petty, but I had to take on board any of the other members criticisms or there'd be a row...

More concerning is that the longer the situation went on the less bothered I was about improving - that was the sign it was time to go.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Bigwan

[JTUK]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1335452975' post='1631451'] I wrestled with this in a pub band and it really wore me down, to the point that I quit. The annoying thing was that any time I tried to improve the situation I was labelled as being petty, but I had to take on board any of the other members criticisms or there'd be a row... More concerning is that the longer the situation went on the less bothered I was about improving - that was the sign it was time to go. [/quote]

Yep..I guess this is what will happen..put up with it as long as I can be arsed and then call it a day.
I am quite capable of not giving a toss about a lot of things but in this case I'd rather not have to be like that.
It isn't going to make me ill or anything so no biggie in the grand scheme of things, but ...............

[JTUK]

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1335445973' post='1631271'] Burying feelings will never work. I see this again and again with my counselling clients. That's why people come to see me. They have buried feelings. But they have never gone away and end up becoming stuck in life. How is burying your feelings going to help your playing with this band? You don't want to leave but you have other musicians who you can play with. You are concerned about where your current band is going in your mind. Then you are concerned about new "baggage" with new musicians. You see a slippery slope with the current band. I get the feeling your mind is going one way. [/quote]

This will not really really affect me..I'll just think it was a real shame and move on when I feel the time has come.

[deepbass5]

Hi JTUK
All sounds familiar. I am with you on this. The bottom line is we are all in competition, you're down south, I'm down south, If there are lazy bands in my area who don't want to put out their best performance they can stay in that comfort zone, Great, I for one rely on the fact this happens to other bands It means we don't have to try even harder to just stand still. There will always be a new kid on the block. So no harm in an honest chat about wanting to be in the best band in the area. If apathy still reigns, maybe it’s time to get a new band together with that vision and drive.
Suggestion. Do you collectively go and see other local bands perform. This sometimes is a wakeup call.
It a tough one, good luck.

[TimR]

Sounds like you are playing on a standard pub band who occasionally get offered better gigs. The other guys play them because they come up but wouldn't go out if their way to find gigs like that.

You have to recognise it for what it is and not tear yourself up over it. Sure we all sometimes find ourselves in bands that are musically well below our abilities. That's part of being a musician.

Stick with it, relax, have fun and play the gigs.

Edited April 26, 2012 by TimR

[JTUK]

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1335463669' post='1631685']
Hi JTUK
All sounds familiar. I am with you on this. The bottom line is we are all in competition, you're down south, I'm down south, If there are lazy bands in my area who don't want to put out their best performance they can stay in that comfort zone, Great, I for one rely on the fact this happens to other bands It means we don't have to try even harder to just stand still. There will always be a new kid on the block. So no harm in an honest chat about wanting to be in the best band in the area. If apathy still reigns, maybe it’s time to get a new band together with that vision and drive.
Suggestion. Do you collectively go and see other local bands perform. This sometimes is a wakeup call.
It a tough one, good luck.
[/quote]
I do go out and see bands and sometimes 2 or 3 of us will meet up so I am aware of where we stand in the food chain, as it were . I am pretty sure the other guys also know, pretty much.
I just think we can step on quite easily..and am rather bemused that they don't get this..or seemingly want to get it.

I understand we can play pubs for £50 a man and you accept that for what it is. I actually like pubs..or decent ones, as you don't have to worry about the 'sell' so much.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1335465695' post='1631726']
Sounds like you are playing on a standard pub band who occasionally get offered better gigs. The other guys play them because they come up but wouldn't go out if their way to find gigs like that.

You have to recognise it for what it is and not tear yourself up over it. Sure we all sometimes find ourselves in bands that are musically well below our abilities. That's part of being a musician.

Stick with it, relax, have fun and play the gigs.
[/quote]

We do about 5 pubs per year. Most of our work is Private parties, a few weddings IF we know the people and they know us, and festival type events.
We don't tend to do local pub beer festivals unless they have hired in a stage and P.A...as in do it properly or not at all.

As regards our collective abilities...we are all about the same, and I would find it hard to replace them for what they bring... but not impossible, IMO. I would have to accept new guys bring in new or different playing and I wouldn't aim for like for like anyway.
But yes, you are right, if it is fun and not too much of a pain, I'll probably stick with it until I don't want to stick with it anymore or have replaced the band with a better unit.

I guess I am pretty aghast that I think we could improve quite a bit with not much more than a 3 hr rehearsal for re-direction and to focus on songs or certains parts of songs.
Basically a chat, a run through to see if it works and thats it.. There aren't that many songs that would need attention but some songs get tired or drift..that is what I would want to address. We already know the song...we don't have to learn it...just alter a feel or outro to jizz over such an such. Freshen things up.
But if it is not there in terms of desire, its not there. And boredom will set in.. surely

Edited April 26, 2012 by JTUK

[Prime_BASS]

I don't play cover band's so it's a little different.

I put in as much effort as I can within the contraints of everyday life, which is the same for the other guys, but that's why it's taken use ages to do anything.

I like to think we all try and be the best we can be, but it also creates a class of ego's, everyone wants to do fills and show off, even the vocals and he is no good at that anyway! haha.

[TimR]

Your best bet is to record the next gig. It may not be as bad as you think. We get a distorted view of what we think it (and what we want it to) sounds like.

Listen to the recording and trim out the tunes you're not happy with, put it on a cd and give it to a musical mate for an honest evaluation without telling him what bits you're not happy with.

Edited April 26, 2012 by TimR

[JTUK]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1335469184' post='1631804']
I don't play cover band's so it's a little different.

I put in as much effort as I can within the contraints of everyday life, which is the same for the other guys, but that's why it's taken use ages to do anything.

I like to think we all try and be the best we can be, but it also creates a class of ego's, everyone wants to do fills and show off, even the vocals and he is no good at that anyway! haha.
[/quote]

Don't mind ego or a little bit of arrogance in this regard...just don't need anyone to be a tit about it....but otherwise that in itself isn't a problem.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1335473165' post='1631920']
Your best bet is to record the next gig. It may not be as bad as you think. We get a distorted view of what we think it (and what we want it to) sounds like.

Listen to the recording and trim out the tunes you're not happy with, put it on a cd and give it to a musical mate for an honest evaluation without telling him what bits you're not happy with.
[/quote]

I already know what they will say....

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1335374135' post='1630165']
I am known for being pretty picky in my number 1 band so I pointed out a few ways I thought we could up our game.

I have to say I was a bit surprised when I got 2 mails from 2 members who did not see the point I was making
and said essentially that as a predominately pub band that made x amount of £'s on a gig, they weren't going to
put any more effort in as we were as good as we needed to be.

I could have replied..that is why we are just a pub band but have resisted so far.

So, the question is, would you want to be as good as you could be with a reasonable amount of work, or would you say
you are good enough for the local standard and that will do...??
[/quote]

Thats pretty much the opinion of the rest of my band. We get gigs, we get paid so why put more effort in and spend out more money.

I record all our gigs and upload copies but i dont think any of them actually bother to listen to them.

Edited April 27, 2012 by dave_bass5

[TimR]

I'm not suggesting playing recordings to your band. They'll only listen to how good their solos are and complain how low they are in the mix.

You need a proper objective person who can listen unbiased and tell you whether you are being OTT or not. Then once they've given their opinion you're in a better position to either work on those bits or forget about it.

There are more ways to skin a cat. I find that just making one remark about one tune them letting them go away to think about it usually does the trick with my band. Often one of them will dig out the original and sort out what they're playing. Helps if it's done over a phone call rather than at the end if a gig.

Edited April 27, 2012 by TimR

[JTUK]

We haven't recorded anything for a few weeks apart from friends video which can be hit and miss sound-wise...and that is more due to the failings of the built-in mics they use
than our balance..which is always pretty good. I made the point that we get a poorer sound of hired P.A...with engrs !!!! that we tend to do in pubs althou this says more about teh P.A co that anything else, IMO.
but that aside...
Regular mates who also play in bands see us a lot as do our general fans/friends and the comments are positive.
As much as this is appreciated that they enjoy the show etc etc ..I wouldn't be basing my thoughts on what we should be pursuing on that, tbh..

[MoonBassAlpha]

Ha! post up some clips on here and get a thousand honest opinions!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1335564125' post='1633338']
Ha! post up some clips on here and get a thousand honest opinions!
[/quote]

.....and all completely unbiased ;-)