Stumped

[ReeV0]

Hi there,

I had my mind all made up to buy the Marshall MB450H amp with the MBC410 cab. Today, I had to lift a box weighing 40kg. It was so heavy! Even with 2 people we struggled, and this is how much the Marshall cab weighs. So immediately thats now out of the picture, and I have to start again from square one... Well maybe not exactly square one;

I've decided whatever cab I get, it has to be under 30kg (70lbs).
I've also got my eye on the Hartke LH500 with the Hartke HX410 cab. Does this sound like a sensible option? I play in a heavy 5-piece rock band, and I play a lot of slap, but portability of the cab is a must. These new HyDrive cabs are lighter than the regular ones, and have casters, but unfortunately this comes at a price. I would have to save up a fair bit for it.
Then, once i've saved up even more, I would buy either another Hartke HX410 for it, or get the Hartke HX115, to release the full 500W of the amp.

(Just out of curiosity, how many watts would I get from the amp if I use one cab?)

Any other amp/cab suggestions welcome, but please don't continually bring up brands like Mark Bass, Trace Elliot, Eden Nemesis etc because they are too expensive!

Many Thanks,
Josh

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171116' date='Apr 7 2008, 02:10 AM']Hi there,

I had my mind all made up to buy the Marshall MB450H amp with the MBC410 cab. Today, I had to lift a box weighing 40kg. It was so heavy! Even with 2 people we struggled, and this is how much the Marshall cab weighs. So immediately thats now out of the picture, and I have to start again from square one... Well maybe not exactly square one;[/quote]

I have two MBC410 cabinets which I use for my rock band and a Hartke combo that I use in my party band



I freely admit to being a very out-of-shape 46 year old with a dickie back yet have no problem lifting my cabs. Sometimes I pick up boxes at work that weigh less than 35kg and think "effin 'ell, that's heavy".

I think it's down to weight distribution and the fact that Marshall cabs are fitted with carrying handles that gives the impression that they are lighter than a box of an equivalent weight. If I had to pick my cabs up by lifting them from underneath, I think I'd feel the weight then.

Hartke amps have a totally different tone to the Marshall. Comparing my old HA5500 with the MB4410 I used to own, the Marshall is much more suited to rock/punk than the Hartke but then then Hartke is more suited to slap.

I suggest you try before you buy.

Edited April 7, 2008 by bassman2790

[sk8]

the Bergantino AE range get alot of good press

or what about getting two 210 cabs instead of one 410

Edited April 7, 2008 by sk8

[Musky]

[quote name='sk8' post='171135' date='Apr 7 2008, 08:08 AM']the Bergantino AE range get alot of good press[/quote]

I think the Bergantino probably falls into the Eden, MarkBass, etc category - quite pricey.

Josh - looking at your posts I get the impression (forgive me if I'm wrong) you're looking for a big stack, so that does kind of rule out a lightweight rig at a cheap price. You pay a premium for neo drivers, so a cab with 4 10's is naturally going to cost you more. There are plenty of options if you'd prefer to go for something smaller with fewer drivers, but maybe you can think about getting a trolley. Lidl have a cheap sack trolley at the moment (came in a fortnight ago so be quick if you try to get one) or Argos do a 'fishing cart' for about £35. Doesn't help with stairs of course, but as has been pointed out decent handles do make lifting easier than handling a square box.

+1 for trying before you buy, though you never really know what a rig will sound like until you use it in anger. That's why so many people on here seem to change their gear more often than their underwear.

[ReeV0]

thank you for all your replies,

[quote name='sk8' post='171135' date='Apr 7 2008, 07:08 AM']the Bergantino AE range get alot of good press

or what about getting two 210 cabs instead of one 410[/quote]
I have considered this posibility, but I will only be able to have a half-stack rather than a full stack, because each of the 2x10 cabs are 8ohms. If I use them in conjunction with the Hartke amp, I will only be able to use 2 of them. I will be playing in small-medium sized rock venues, and I have to be prepared for no PA support.
However, If I get an amp that goes down to 2ohms, such as the Marshall MB450H, then I could get two 2x10 at 8ohms each, making 4ohms, and then buy another 4ohm cab.

But that being said, I'd much rather get a rather light 4x10 cab with wheels.

Thanks a lot

(P.S. The Hartke LH500 amp uses 1/4 jacks instead of speakons. Is this ok? Forgive me for this stupid question, but are 1/4 jacks just the normal leads, like the lead that plugs your bass into your amp?)

[sk8]

or just get two 4ohm 210s

[ReeV0]

[quote name='sk8' post='171253' date='Apr 7 2008, 10:15 AM']or just get two 4ohm 210s[/quote]
True, I could, but then that would only be a half-stack, and I doubt will be loud enough. Don't you mean two 8ohm 210s? (The Hartke amp is 4ohms, anyways)

[sk8]

Sorry, yes i did. You seem fixed on needing a stack. there are people on here running two 210s or two 112s as their rigs and they are fine. Are you basing needing the stack on expereince or because you think you will need it. 180 watts and a single 210 is pretty loud.

Edited April 7, 2008 by sk8

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171217' date='Apr 7 2008, 10:37 AM'](P.S. The Hartke LH500 amp uses 1/4 jacks instead of speakons. Is this ok? Forgive me for this stupid question, but are 1/4 jacks just the normal leads, like the lead that plugs your bass into your amp?)[/quote]
Yes it is OK - someone else asked the same thing today. Its the cable that determines the use - not the plugs. Speakons make it impossible to use the wrong lead but you have to use signal lead for signal and speaker leads for speakers. For more info see the wiki.

[ReeV0]

ah ok i'll chek them out.

[quote name='sk8' post='171315' date='Apr 7 2008, 11:21 AM']Sorry, yes i did. You seem fixed on needing a stack. there are people on here running two 210s or two 112s as their rigs and they are fine. Are you basing needing the stack on expereince or because you think you will need it. 180 watts and a single 210 is pretty loud.[/quote]

I dont have any real experience, except that i know i will be playing in a heavy rock band, with (im guessing) a loud drummer, and 2 guitarists, who i know for sure are both using at least all-valve marshall half stacks.
so yeah i kinda need to be heard

i am liking the hartke combo more and more, just seems to fit my requirements. here they are again:
[url="http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1944&brandID=3"]http://www.samsontech.com/products/product...4&brandID=3[/url]
[url="http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1941&brandID=3"]http://www.samsontech.com/products/product...1&brandID=3[/url]

People have said that the paper + aluminium cones make slap sound really good (which i will be playing a lot of)
I will definitly have to try it out for sure

[Merton]

More often than not I use a 1x15 combo on its own against two Marshall Mode 4 stacks. That is doing about 180W. Just becasue your guitarists are using stacks doesn't mean you have to.

What about the Eden Nemesis speaker cabs? Those cabs are pretty light and they're the cheaper Eden range.

Re. jack-jack cables, do not use a standard guitar lead as a speaker cable. Bad idea (no doubt explained in the wiki). Get Dave (OBBM around these parts) to make you some nice jack-jack speaker cables.

[bass_ferret]

You could do a lot worse than look at the amps and cabs for sale. You have not said what your budget is but I'm guessing you could pick up a good rig S/H that will kick that Hartke arse.

[sk8]

we've tried that one

[d-basser]

I am looking and drooling at the Dr Bass cabs (which Robbie and RIM is now getting in) these are very light and handle ridiculous amounts of power, they are also very affordable (if i wasnt stoney broke).
Check them out

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171359' date='Apr 7 2008, 12:53 PM']I dont have any real experience, except that i know i will be playing in a heavy rock band, with (im guessing) a loud drummer, and 2 guitarists, who i know for sure are both using at least all-valve marshall half stacks.
so yeah i kinda need to be heard [/quote]

Tell them to turn down

[alexclaber]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171359' date='Apr 7 2008, 12:53 PM']I dont have any real experience, except that i know i will be playing in a heavy rock band, with (im guessing) a loud drummer, and 2 guitarists, who i know for sure are both using at least all-valve marshall half stacks.[/quote]

Buy some ER-20 musicians' earplugs whilst you're still young enough to save your hearing!

Without buying a bass rig the size of a small car you will never win the volume war. Instead, turn it into a dialogue where you all listen to each other and thus the guitarists learn that the volume knob turns in both directions. Play with each other, don't fight to be heard.

If I was in your position I'd track down a used Peavey head and a couple of used cabs (2x10", 1x15" or a mix of the two). Or a single 4x10" (add casters if they're missing) and work on your lifting technique (visits to gym may help...) Peavey gear is really reliable and when you've been playing some years and really know what your ideal rig is (which will only come with time and experience) you'll be able to sell it for what you paid in the first place.

If you really do want to spend £500 on a cab, which strikes me as a hell of a lot for a newbie, then check out the DR Bass cabs that Robbie @ RIM Custom is importing, I doubt you can do better.

Alex

[Merton]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='171525' date='Apr 7 2008, 03:25 PM']Buy some ER-20 musicians' earplugs whilst you're still young enough to save your hearing!

Without buying a bass rig the size of a small car you will never win the volume war. Instead, turn it into a dialogue where you all listen to each other and thus the guitarists learn that the volume knob turns in both directions. Play with each other, don't fight to be heard.

If I was in your position I'd track down a used Peavey head and a couple of used cabs (2x10", 1x15" or a mix of the two). Or a single 4x10" (add casters if they're missing) and work on your lifting technique (visits to gym may help...) Peavey gear is really reliable and when you've been playing some years and really know what your ideal rig is (which will only come with time and experience) you'll be able to sell it for what you paid in the first place.

If you really do want to spend £500 on a cab, which strikes me as a hell of a lot for a newbie, then check out the DR Bass cabs that Robbie @ RIM Custom is importing, I doubt you can do better.

Alex[/quote]
+1 to all of that. Listen to Alex, he speaketh sense

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='Merton' post='171527' date='Apr 7 2008, 03:29 PM']+1 to all of that. Listen to Alex, he speaketh sense [/quote]

+2

My first proper stack was a Peavey Tmax with 115BX + 210TX cabs. Tha Tmax was 500watts and gave out it's full power into those cabs and believe me it was loud. I was competing with 2 guitarists who were too young to know that the loud knob could be turned down as well as up, but getting enough volume was never an issue, and it sounded good too and I could lift it easily on my own.

Used Peavey stuff is dirt cheap and if you buy wisely and don't like it you cxan sell it without making a loss

[Adrenochrome]

I'm loving my 1x15 and 2x10 set-up. I only use both cabs when I know it's a medium to large venue with no PA support. We played a medium-sized club last week and our soundman cried off so we only had our back-up PA and I'd only brought my 1x15 and couldn't go through our small PA. I was still audible at the back of the room although it was pretty muddy apparently. And my rig is fairly cheap, all Ashdown MAG and Peavey gear.

[WarPig]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171269' date='Apr 7 2008, 11:38 AM']True, I could, but then that would only be a half-stack, and I doubt will be loud enough. Don't you mean two 8ohm 210s? (The Hartke amp is 4ohms, anyways)[/quote]

Did you start out as a guitarist? Go to a few local rock gigs and check out the bassists rigs, and you'll soon see that alot of people dont need 2x 4-10's.

2x2-10's is definatly loud enough.

Edited April 7, 2008 by WarPig

[ReeV0]

[quote name='WarPig' post='171605' date='Apr 7 2008, 04:09 PM']Go to a few local rock gigs and check out the bassists rigs, and you'll soon see that alot of people dont need 2x 4-10's.

2x2-10's is definatly loud enough.[/quote]
Granted, but if i have a 500W head at 4ohms, and i buy two 2x10 8ohm cabs, that means im pretty much set. i cant add anymore cabs.
but if i buy one 4x10 8ohm cab, its only drawing about 300W from the head, so i could either buy another 4x10 (which seems more sensible), or buy a 2x10. But as i am looking at the new hartke hydrive range, they dont do a 2x10 anyway

[alexclaber]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171665' date='Apr 7 2008, 06:33 PM']but if i buy one 4x10 8ohm cab, its only drawing about 300W from the head[/quote]

The difference between 300W and 500W is pretty negligible, especially when you consider that a typical 1000W rated cab can only handle about 250W in the lows.

Alex

[The Funk]

Get two Hartke 2.5XL cabs. They're awesome and come in at £239 each brand new.

As they're 200W at 8 ohms each, you'd draw 400W with them both plugged into your 500W head.

If you stack them on their sides, you'd get the same height as a Marshall stack but with more clarity.

That would definitely be my recommendation, especially if you're looking at Hartke anyway.

As for a head, I'd go for a Gallien-Krueger 700RB. At 480W, it'd be a very good match for the two Hartke cabs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='The Funk' post='171674' date='Apr 7 2008, 06:44 PM']Get two Hartke 2.5XL cabs. They're awesome and come in at £239 each brand new.

As they're 200W at 8 ohms each, you'd draw 400W with them both plugged into your 500W head.

If you stack them on their sides, you'd get the same height as a Marshall stack but with more clarity.

That would definitely be my recommendation, especially if you're looking at Hartke anyway.

As for a head, I'd go for a Gallien-Krueger 700RB. At 480W, it'd be a very good match for the two Hartke cabs.[/quote]

If you're buying new then that's a great set-up.

Alex

[ReeV0]

the thing is with different heads and cabs, you cant really try them out, because each store sells different things and you cant mix and match them in the shop.

i've kinda decided on the Hartke LH1000, with two Hartke HX410. I really do need it loud because we will be playing in pretty large outdoor gigs