Stumped

[The Funk]

Each of those HX410s is rated at 1000W at 8ohms. But they'd each only draw 500W from that Hartke head. That just about fits with Alex's 2:1 either way rule but it seems a waste.

If you're going to get the LH1000 (which looks pretty cool just from the spec - obviously it may sound like turd, can't say without hearing it), and you want an obnoxiously big stack, then I'd recommend you get 4 Hartke 2.5XL cabs and have a double stack (cross-fired).

Of course this will all be completely unnecessary, even if you're playing large outdoor gigs (at 15?), because your bass will be going through the PA system out to the audience - your cabs on stage will just be to help you hear yourself.

Edited April 8, 2008 by The Funk

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171917' date='Apr 7 2008, 11:21 PM']the thing is with different heads and cabs, you cant really try them out, because each store sells different things and you cant mix and match them in the shop.[/quote]

Exactly. You're not the first person to discover that problem.

[bass_ferret]

Seems to me you have already decided what to buy, so not sure why you are asking when everyone is telling you that you dont need a stack. That you are playing large outdoor gigs has got f*** all to do with the size of your backline and everything to do with the size of your PA, and you will need to mic the drums up to cope with the volume of your rig.

[Musky]

I think wanting a big stack is fair enough. They can look the dog's danglies - just ask the bands that take a bunch of empty cabs and heads on tour.

But of course a big stack isn't needed. A pair of cabs isn't necessarily louder than a smaller, lighter and more transportable cab, depending on the efficiency of the cabs. Nor do they necessarily sound better, which is probably the most important thing, but at least you'll be on the way to looking like your heroes playing those stadium gigs.

So on paper the Hartke rig fits the bill - a relatively light 4x10, decently powerful amp and not too pricey new. I'm not sure there's too much else out there to look at without going secondhand or smaller.

[chris_b]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='172035' date='Apr 8 2008, 09:23 AM']....seems to me you have already decided what to buy....[/quote]
Me too.... you asked and the answer is we are not endorsing your stack idea. Big is not always best.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='WarPig' post='171605' date='Apr 7 2008, 05:09 PM']Did you start out as a guitarist? Go to a few local rock gigs and check out the bassists rigs, and you'll soon see that alot of people dont need 2x 4-10's.

2x2-10's is definatly loud enough.[/quote]

One of my 4x10's is plenty loud enough. A stack just looks cooler

[chris_b]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='172150' date='Apr 8 2008, 12:18 PM']One of my 4x10's is plenty loud enough. A stack just looks cooler[/quote]
I understand that. My preference would be to spend my budget on 1 better 4x10 rather than 2 not so good cabs. I wouldn't look so cool (a difficult job for me at the best of times!), but I'd sound better.

[Guest MoJo]

I think I may just be compensating for something.....

[tauzero]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='171116' date='Apr 7 2008, 02:10 AM']Any other amp/cab suggestions welcome, but please don't continually bring up brands like Mark Bass, Trace Elliot, Eden Nemesis etc because they are too expensive![/quote]
BFM Omni 10?

[ReeV0]

ok ok, i've taken all your advice, and decided to get only one 4x10 cab. would this be a wise idea?

Hartke LH1000 (partly because it has a speakon connector, and the LH500 one doesnt)
Hartke HX410 (well its £500 and it looks amazing, so it must be pretty good)

and also, with the LH1000 amp, i could get another cab later on (just incase i wanted to!)

plz tell me what you think? thanks a bunch

[ReeV0]

oh i've just realised. if i get the LH1000 head, thats 1000W at 4ohms. The 4x10 speaker is 1000W at 8ohms. if i only have one attached, could this be bad? i'd probably only be getting about 500W to the amp right? it wouldnt overheat the head or cab or anything would it?


thanks

[bass_ferret]

Your budget for an LH1000/HX410/HX410 was approx £1400. Now you have decided to drop 1 of the cabs I would call Mark at Bass Direct and talk about a Bargantino HS410 and GenzBenz GBE750. Add a bit more to you budget and you could stretch to the Berg NV610 and split the difference between having 1 or 2 4x10 cabs.

[Merton]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='172497' date='Apr 8 2008, 06:43 PM']oh i've just realised. if i get the LH1000 head, thats 1000W at 4ohms. The 4x10 speaker is 1000W at 8ohms. if i only have one attached, could this be bad? i'd probably only be getting about 500W to the amp right? it wouldnt overheat the head or cab or anything would it?


thanks[/quote]
read the wiki and the stickies!

[ReeV0]

ok read the bit about impedences and the like. if i only plan to use one cab, is there any way of making it 4ohms instead of 8ohms, to draw the full power of the amp? because it doesnt say if it can be used at 8ohms, it just says 4. or will this just blow the speaker?

or

should i get the Peavey Tour 700 head? 500W at 8ohms, 700W at 4ohms. it least i know for sure the peavey amp can be used at 4ohms


thanks

Edited April 8, 2008 by jjl5590

[Musky]

In a word, no.

I wouldn't get hung up too much on the wattage the amp is knocking out - It'll be something around 650W at 8 ohms and the full 1000W will be a 50% increase on that. Unfortunately an increase in wattage doesn't correspond directly to volume. A 50% increase in wattage will give you less than a 2db increase in SPL - to give you an idea of what this means, a 1db increase in SPL is regarded as the minimum increase in volume a human can detect. And you'd need 10 times the wattage to get double the volume (it's actually a bit more complicated than that, but works as a handy guide).

The long and short of it is that it's really not worth sweating over such a small percentage increase in power.

[ReeV0]

lol ok let me try and make sense of that. are you saying i should get the LH1000 head?

thanks again lol

[bass_ferret]

Dont be so obsessed with getting full beans from the amp. You wont be able to tell the difference between 500W and 700W. All solid state amps have a minimum impedence (although it is not always stated as such)and if you have a higher impedence load you will get less watts. If you have a lower impedence you can destroy your amp.

You can rewire the cabs differently (see the wiki) but not usually from 8 to 4 ohms.

[bass_ferret]

We wont tell you what to buy - thats up to you. We may suggest alternatives that you appear to be determined to ignore so get what you like. Losing one cab should make your budget stretch beyond budget; i.e get better gear.

[ReeV0]

ok thanks for all ur help, i'll think i'll go with the Hartke LH1000 amp and the Hartke HX410 cab. (Then, if neccessary later on, i'll buy another 4x10 or 1x15).

P.S. i didnt really get ur last comment. the hartke gear seems like pretty great gear to me!

Edited April 8, 2008 by jjl5590

[The Funk]

I think you should probably spend another 6 weeks going through the different options before you buy your rig. For that amount of money you can't afford to get it wrong - you'll be stuck with it for a good 5 more years.

The problem with that Hartke cab is that it's a relatively new and untested speaker cone technology, with a part-paper and part-aluminium cone. Noone's ever done that before and I've never seen anyone on TV or live using either that head or that cab. It could be a great product but it could just as easily be a pile of rubbish.

The other problem with Hartke is that it isn't considered high end gear anymore.

I quite like the sound of the XL series Hartke cabs with the aluminium cones. Some people hate them. But for funk-rock I think they work pretty well. And I used to own the 2.5XL which is why I recommended it. The 4.5XL which also comes highly recommended by a few fellow forum members is too heavy for you.

I think Ferret is right: just buy the one cab and spend twice as much on it. Try out that Hartke head and see if it's any good. If it is then get yourself an Epifani UL410. It weighs less than one Hartke 2.5XL cab and can handle 1000W at 4 ohms. Would seem like a perfect match for that Hartke head.

But like I said, I've never of anyone who's actually used that head before. The Epifani cabs do sound pretty damn good though.

[ReeV0]

ok cool i'll think about that, but you said "Try out that Hartke head and see if it's any good. If it is then get yourself an Epifani UL410"

how can i try out the head by itself? im guessing i'll be playing it through the hydrive speaker, so i dont get how you can really judge a head other than its stats

[ReeV0]

i just checked out the Epifani UL410 cab - its WICKED but too expensive like £900! i dunno, maybe i'll just give the hartke a whirl and hope for the best. but as you said, theres no rush

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='jjl5590' post='172650' date='Apr 8 2008, 10:13 PM']so i dont get how you can really judge a head other than its stats[/quote]
Here is the root of your problem! You want to buy the Hartke cos its the most bang per buck (40p per watt). You dont buy gear because its got the best stats, you buy gear cos it sounds good. This is why the old Hartke gear is marmite, some people love how it sounds and some people hate how it sounds cos its sound is very distinctive cos of the metal cones.

It is difficult to know how stuff sounds cos even if you try before you buy you wont be playing anywhere near full beans and it will sound different, it will also sound different when you gig with your band, but it will give you a clue as to how it sounds. You wont find anyone endorsing the new Hartke range until we have heard it, so if you want it you will have to go alone.

My point about budget is this: You were going to spend £400 on an amp and a grand on cabs. What I as suggesting you do is spend £700 on a better sounding amp and £700 on a better sounding cab.

[The Funk]

Once you've tried an amp with a few different cabs you get to learn how the amp sounds. Once you've tried a few different amps with the same cab, you get to learn how the cab sounds.

And you should also check out people's rigs when you go to watch people play live. That way you get an idea of how different pieces of equipment sound when combined.

I can't really take responsibility for recommending that a 15 year old bassist gets his parents to fork out just under £1000 for an Epifani UL410.

Personally, I'd suggest that you work out some kind of budget with the folks and then stick to it.

I was a pretty spoilt kid (not saying you are, but I was) but my first proper amp was a fourth-hand 4x10 combo that cost around £300 and pumped out about 250W.

You'd probably be fine with an amp in the 300-500W range and either a 4x10 cab or two 2x10 cabs. The 1000W Hartke head seems like way more than you'd ever need.

If you've got a budget of around £500 (and you're buying new and you want a stack), then I'd suggest either:

1. Warwick Profet 3.2 head (300W @ 4ohms, £185) + a Hartke 210TP cab (175W @ 8 ohms, £175) + a Hartke 115TP cab (175W @ 8 ohms, £179),

or if you can live without the stack,

2. Warwick Profet 5.1 head (500W @ 4 ohms, £279) + a Hartke 410TP cab (300W @ 8 ohms, £265).

It won't sound amazing but it won't sound bollocks either.

Edited April 8, 2008 by The Funk

[steve-soar]

Check this out,http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kustom-groove-bass-1200-stack-4x10-cab_W0QQitemZ220221743515QQihZ012QQcategoryZ58719QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem