Cheap bass expensive parts?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1327602839' post='1514146']
How often do you play electric bass without it amplified?

What they sound like acoustically has little effect on how they sound amplified when compared to the pickups, electrics, strings and the amp itself.

Though I agree, what they sound like acoustically does have a marginal effect. Especially if you know it and you're looking for it.
[/quote]

all the time for the first 6 months I played!
Granted the pickups and electronics and that make a difference.... but both my basses, with same strings and amps ,sound like a flavoured amplified version of the acoustic sound.
One is ash with maple neck and fretboard, and the other a through neck, all maple, wenge fretboard.... now if I wanted I could swap pickups, but if a string vibrating sounds different because of the bass I can't see how that is neglibal

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='bigjohn' timestamp='1327599151' post='1514053']
Yeah. How a bass sounds amplified is mostly about pickups, electrics, strings and the amp! Anything is else is marginal at best.
[/quote]

This has been well established for a while now but many flat refuse to believe the truth.

[Phil-osopher10]

I believe you should get a better bass than an amplifier at the start as most gigs can be di'd and when I went from the ibanez GSR200 to the thumb the difference was huge, it was sort of all there!

[chris_b]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1327607642' post='1514234']
....This has been well established for a while now but many flat refuse to believe the truth....
[/quote]

Yep. The experts have spoken.

[bigjohn]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1327607642' post='1514234']
This has been well established for a while now but many flat refuse to believe the truth.
[/quote]

I think it's quite delusional to think anything else.

It's an electric bass. It's the electric components that mostly make up how they sound.

The rest of it is human and ergonomics.

[Jerry_B]

The only thing aside from that which might slightly effect the tone would be the fingerboard wood on a fretless bass. But that still may eventually be down to what you can hear/want to hear

Edited January 27, 2012 by Jerry_B

[Phil-osopher10]

So, I got to try out a sadowsky today, it was a 5 stringer and having been used to a Warwick 5 I was a bit taken back by how wide the fingerboard was. It was also a maple neck and I'm not a massive fan of the mapleness, other than that it did have a nice sound. I should have played a the rosewood one, but sure.

I also had the chance to play a lakland, it was very nice to play and had a nice sound but I wouldn't say it was massively versatile to be honest. So I'm thinking of just getting something a little cheaper and change the electronics, also had a go on a mim fender jazz wasn't impressed but it did look secondhand and wasn't well looked after.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1327606298' post='1514209']
if a string vibrating sounds different because of the bass I can't see how that is neglibal
[/quote]

This is the point that people seem to completely fail to understand. I feel like a broken record, but dead spots. They exist, they are due to the materials/construction and prove conclusively (not that it's needed since Newton already did that job several hundred years ago, but he didn't apply the physics of mass-spring-damper systems to electric bass!) that wood contributes to tone. Whether it's 'negligible' or not depends on what you're comparing, of course.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1327868701' post='1518033']
This is the point that people seem to completely fail to understand. I feel like a broken record, but dead spots. They exist, they are due to the materials/construction and prove conclusively (not that it's needed since Newton already did that job several hundred years ago, but he didn't apply the physics of mass-spring-damper systems to electric bass!) that wood contributes to tone. Whether it's 'negligible' or not depends on what you're comparing, of course.
[/quote]

People seem to gleem over the fact that in a mix a lot is negligable. Which is what I said in my first post about this subject.

I'm not totally blind to the fact that elements outside of electronics, pickups and strings (and one's own playing) will determine sound, but in a real world mix it could be a squier with sadowsky electrics or a sadowsky with squier electrics.

Solo'd is a different thing, and to us as bassists I would say we have a better ear for the subtleties of basses.

Another thing about upgrading. I saw once a scientific analysis of a badass2 bridge against the fender BBOT. There was nothing in it, at all.

As long as the bass is solid and of good construction, you cant go wrong and I think definitly upgrading the electrics and the pickups will make a difference.


I am by no means saying that it could be made out of bread and butter and it'll sound exactly like a graphite bass. People need not be so narrow minded yet wake up to the fact that 'tone wood' makes little difference to a average joe gigging bass player.

There is also a the feel factor. For me I love my sterling bass, aside from it's defects in neck stability, and a new one doesn't really cut it for me. It's like the character factor that some old cars have. Nostalgic nonsense. I'd rather not debate about this as it's just as pointless as a funk and groove debate.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Prime_BASS

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1327588592' post='1513828']
Upgrading parts can greatly improve a bass. A mate pimped a VMJ with new Barts, Gotoh hardware etc and it sounded great. Surely better than a stock Mex Fender. Would it sound better than a Jap fender with the same upgrades?
IMO no because the overall quality of the build is way better.
[/quote]

You can tell the difference between a Mex and Jap Fender? WOw. You have way better ears than me. I struggle between the neck pup on my Jazz and my Precision. My lad has a Mex Jazz Deluxe. There are no issues with it at all, it sounds and plays brilliantly. I'm not here to defend Mexican basses, just that, in reality, there is no three tier of sound quality from US, through Jap to Mex. They are all massed produced by machines, and I understand those in the US factory are the largest. The local labour costs vary though.

Can we decide if the Korean Fenders are any good so we can say whether they sound good or not?

They all have the same dead spots.

A friend is a Jazz bass enthusiast, his main love is a Sadowski. Yes, the sound is fab. It really is, but then he is also a phenomenal bass player.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1327868701' post='1518033']
This is the point that people seem to completely fail to understand. I feel like a broken record, but dead spots. They exist, they are due to the materials/construction and prove conclusively (not that it's needed since Newton already did that job several hundred years ago, but he didn't apply the physics of mass-spring-damper systems to electric bass!) that wood contributes to tone. Whether it's 'negligible' or not depends on what you're comparing, of course.
[/quote]

Yes, I believe this to be true and is particularly true for Fenders which use a single piece of maple for the neck. Every Fender and MM I have played has a dead spot around the 5th fret on the G String. Some worse than others. My Jaydee has a composite neck which helps to cancel these resonances and it does not suffer in the same way.

This definitely affects the sound. However, the overall sound is still a matter for the strings, pups, amps etc. You can tell similar basses apart due to these elements, not the dead spot.

You can mainly tell the basses apart by their players.

[noelk27]

Not to change subject, but Will Lee still using 60s Fender Jazz pickups in the actual Sadowsky basses he plays? Just saying.

[LITTLEWING]

IMO it all boils down to two simple things - your and your ears. If you like the sound and playability of a sub £300 instrument, buy the bloody thing. Why pay £2500 plus on a fancy name thing or replacement bits that do the same job, possibly mis-matched and sonically worse? I just bought a Squier Vintage Modified Jazz 5'er (£247 with £25 Fender offer rebate), and apart from half hour setting up properly out of the box, it's the best bass I think I've ever had in nearly 35 years. In fact, at the last gig, I had two players come up at the end to see if their eyes and ears weren't deceiving them. They couldn't believe the incredible sound coming at them from a 'lower' brand name. Me? I'm happy as a pig in the proverbial. Get over yourselves, FFS!!!

[muttley]

[quote name='LITTLEWING' timestamp='1327953574' post='1519460']
IMO it all boils down to two simple things - your and your ears. If you like the sound and playability of a sub £300 instrument, buy the bloody thing.
[/quote]

I'm no expert but surely this is the crux of the matter. An amplified solid body instrument has to support its strings and allow the player to vibrate them accordingly. The rest is down to the electronics (leaving aesthetic considerations aside). Therefore, if a bass is reasonably well put together, has a good action (or can be set up such that it has) and stays in tune what more do you need? If the pickups etc are a bit naff it's a relatively easy job to replace them.

[Conan]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1327593721' post='1513940']There are some guys here that use £100 basses and sound great.[/quote]

That's me!! Well, the first bit anyway...

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1328016809' post='1520304']
There are some guys here that use £100 basses and sound great.

That's me!! Well, the first bit anyway...
[/quote]

Some guy.

[Emanew]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1327502659' post='1512442'] Your cheapest route to the Sadowsky sound is to get the best Jazz bass you can afford and get the Sadowsky Outboard Preamp. http://www.sadowsky.com/accessories/preamp.html Of course, the only thing that gets you a Will Lee is £3000 [/quote]

I agree with that suggestion.

I use to play with an old sadowsky preamp (second hand, half the price) and it coloured well the sound of my JB.
For the hardware, you can buy black bridge and keys.
[url="http://www.sadowsky.com/stock/view/5225.html"]http://www.sadowsky.com/stock/view/5225.html[/url]
For the look, you can ask a luthier to add, to your good JB, a rare wood facings (exotic wood, flamed or quilted maple, etc...
You will be able to choose the beautiful wood with him. A luthier workshop is always a wonderland for me. It will be far far from 3000£ and you learn a lot about instruments with him.



PS : a Warwick Thumb is a very good choice, splendid bubinga and sound...

[Muzz]

Here we go again...

I've got a Warwick Fortress and a FrankenP with the same pickups in - Wizard P/Js in pretty much the same position in relation to the bridge. One bass has a maple body, wenge neck and board, brass nut, brass frets, two part bridge. The other has an ash body, maple neck and board, schaller 3D bridge, composite nut. Compositionally, they couldn't be further apart in terms of wood names. They feel and play very differently, and, acoustically, sound different.

Plug them in and they're 90% the same. Once the band kicks in they're indistinguishable. And yes, I was surprised about that myself.

As an addendum to that, I've got a Fenderbird with an alder body and the same neck as the FrankenP. The pickups are Epi soapbars, in different places to the P/J ones in the FrankenP. Amplified, it sounds very different compared to the FrankenP - that'll be the alder versus the ash, then...

Edited February 2, 2012 by Muzz