Clarky Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just finished reading 'Japan & Self-existence'. Its really quite a disquieting book, from Mick's loveless upbringing, his several big romances that went wrong (one of which seemed strangely important to him still, at the time of writing, despite by then having a wife and child), to David Sylvian's pillaging of Japan's earnings (just how did he manage to blag the song and publishing royalties to himself, leaving his bandmates - including his own brother - essentially impoverished?) Probably worth reading if, like me you are a fan of his bass playing, but really quite upsetting on many levels. Also leaves me with very mixed feelings towards David Sylvian as I have grown up over many years loving 'Brilliiant Trees' and 'Secrets of the Beehive' and I don't think I can listen to them again without thinking of how he treated his bandmates in Japan RIP Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 So many times I've seen the collision of the public image and the private reality that fame and money generate, and the effect it has on people's motives. Sadly, this looks like it's no exception. I shall look out for this book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Thanks for this Clarky; I will have to pick that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Its only available via a private publisher called Lulu. Ships from US but arrived within 3 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I do like a good music biography, and being a fan of Mick's playing, I shall get meself a copy of this book. Was listening to Tin Drum only this morning and Mick Karn truly was a unique voice on the bass guitar, sorely missed. I remember when the news broke that he was ill, and thought it strange that he would need to rely on donations and selling his gear to pay for medical bills. A sad circumstance indeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 As Mick pointed out in his book, how could 100% of the rights on hit single 'Ghosts' go to Sylvian when so much of its appeal was generated by the eerie keyboard sounds generated by Richard Barbiero, yet the latter made not a penny from it. Likewise, all those bass lines Mick played that led (and indeed defined) so many Japan songs yielded nada personally for him financially. Very sad to read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1326406753' post='1496965'] As Mick pointed out in his book, how could 100% of the rights on hit single 'Ghosts' go to Sylvian when so much of its appeal was generated by the eerie keyboard sounds generated by Richard Barbiero, yet the latter made not a penny from it. Likewise, all those bass lines Mick played that led (and indeed defined) so many Japan songs yielded nada personally for him financially. Very sad to read [/quote] That would take an ego of massive proprtions, and yet surely someone who was employed in a legal capacity didn't think that giving 100% rights of those songs to Sylvian was somehow a little fishy? I hope Sylvian has felt more than a small pang of guilt ever since, especially after Mick Karn had to go cap in hand to his own fans to help him get treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Unfortunately, the one thing that the autobiography singularly lacks is any explanation as to how this situation regarding the songwriting/publishing rights arose. I can't think how the rest of the band didn't either know or have any say and there's no explanation at all. Maybe lawyers blocked certain bits being published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 A very sad story. It reminds me of what Levon Helm recounts in '[size=4]This Wheel's on Fire: Levon Helm and the Story of the Band'.[/size] [size=4]Robbie Robertson managed to get sole writing credits on practically all of the Band's songs, much to the anger and bitterness of the others. It comes across as a very shady and shabby business, but to be fair, I've not seen Roberston's version of the events.[/size] [size=4]I can recommend the above book. A very good musical autobiography.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1326407543' post='1496981'] Unfortunately, the one thing that the autobiography singularly lacks is any explanation as to how this situation regarding the songwriting/publishing rights arose. I can't think how the rest of the band didn't either know or have any say and there's no explanation at all. Maybe lawyers blocked certain bits being published? [/quote] Wow. That has actually p1ssed me off. How can someone, who was part of a [i]band, [/i]part of a joint creative process, all of a sudden declare that all ideas/melodies/lyrics that that band ever came up with should be credited soley to him??? Beyond belief. Sylvian must have been living in cloud cuckoo land. Even his singing style was ripped from Bryan Ferry. Maybe he should get some of Japan's royaties too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panamonte Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1326408274' post='1496990'] A very sad story. It reminds me of what Levon Helm recounts in '[size=4]This Wheel's on Fire: Levon Helm and the Story of the Band'.[/size] [size=4]Robbie Robertson managed to get sole writing credits on practically all of the Band's songs, much to the anger and bitterness of the others. It comes across as a very shady and shabby business, but to be fair, I've not seen Roberston's version of the events.[/size] [size=4]I can recommend the above book. A very good musical autobiography.[/size] [/quote] +1 It's an excellent book, but - as you say - Robbie Robertson doesn't come out of it well at all. It is disappointing when people you've previously had a lot of respect and admiration for turn out not to be quite as admirable as you thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I am not commenting on anything to do with Japan or Mick Karn or the whole royalty thing for that particular band. However, rest assured that whoever registers the writing credit (melody and words) gets the £. It does not matter if the song contains the greatest drum fill in the history of the world or the most fabulous guitar solo ever. The £ goes to the registered writer of the melody and words. End of. How they choose to move the money around is legally their decision. You can bet that a lot of lawyers have made a lot of money arguing the minutiae in court (don't they always), but it is melody and words and nothing else. Is this artistically correct? Probably not. Does this recognise the contribution the whole band make to the whole band? No. Does it seem fair? No. Is it how it is? Yes. There are really good reasons for people being involved with the MU. If you are a member then any contracts you sign are vetted by very expensive lawyers on an MU retainer. For nothing. We are beyond naive if we think the music industry is fair. Why do Led Zep not get it together? Page and Plant are still fighting about money (allegedly). The industry is not about talent, it is about knowing how to milk the income streams. That is obviously not what music is about for a lot of us, but it is PRECISELY what the Music Industry is about. We owe it to the younger generation to make that clear at all possible opportunities. I wish I knew this when I was 16. U2 split their royalties 5 ways (20% for their manager). That seems fair. To veer back onto topic, Mick Karn had lush tone. Grant, how anyone can use the words "Bryan Ferry" and "singing" in the same sentence is beyond me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassatnight Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Read the book a while ago, and it did leave a bitter taste but I am sure Mick had his faults. You might also argue Sylvian was really the only one who continued to have success after Japan Split, I am pretty sure he wrote all of his solo stuff. Richard Barbieri did say that Sylvian wrote 90% of Japan's music but seemed to take nearer 100% of the royalties. I guess if they didn't like it they could have just walked away. We have all been in bands it happens all the time, some peole just put up with it for a 'Quiet Life' sorry couldn't resist. Mick was a genius as far as I am concerned. Try playing Art of Parties or swing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'm really getting curious about this book so I'm going to order it... You can never underestimate the power of money and what it does to people... Reminds me of Andy Summers coming up with that great guitar-line on "Every breath you take" (which pretty much makes the song what it is in a way) and Sting still claiming that the song is completely his.. I used to be in a band with one person being the musical director giving cues during our gigs for instance...(he was paid 50 euros more each gig) He was replaced for one gig by someone else so the drummer counted of the songs instead of the musical director.. Later on I heard from the manager that the drummer went up to him and whispered : "I counted of the songs today so you can put the extra 50 on my account". There is a reason why I am a receptionist during the day... money does strange things to people and even in the "ideal" world of music it has become more important. A daily job helps me to stay away from sharing this mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassatnight Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Geert, The book is well worth a read. It's a little sad that Mick uses so few pages on his Bass playing and instruments but his whole attitude to playing is so refreshing. People ask me about strings and I always reply I use whatever is lying around or whatever I get free. Also funny is his story of people wanting a 'Mick Karn' fretless Wal but I'll leave that for future readers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 On a tangent but seeing the 'Mick Karn fretless' comment reminded me that the Bass Gallery have a fretless Wal just arrived, advertised as a 'Percy Jones fretless' even though it appears Percy has nothing to do with it, other than having owned a couple of basses made by the same manufacturer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairyhaw Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1326404775' post='1496917']Also leaves me with very mixed feelings towards David Sylvian as I have grown up over many years loving 'Brilliiant Trees' and 'Secrets of the Beehive' and I don't think I can listen to them again without thinking of how he treated his bandmates in Japan[/quote] This is a difficult one. On the one hand I'm really interested in reading the book, on the other I like "Brilliant Trees" so much I'm not sure I'd want to be in your position after reading it. [quote name='wombatboter' timestamp='1326436452' post='1497154'] Reminds me of Andy Summers coming up with that great guitar-line on "Every breath you take" (which pretty much makes the song what it is in a way) and Sting still claiming that the song is completely his.. [/quote] I always understood that Sting wrote the riff on (and for) keyboard but that it didn't work and Summers tried it on the Tele instead and voila, instant classic. Continuing the royalties theme, did Bill Wyman not successfully argue for extra royalties for composing the bassline for Satisfaction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsmith Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I knew there was another book I wanted for Christmas - oh well, it's ordered now! Thanks for the reminder. Always really liked Japan - probably the only band that I liked that the girls I was at school with did as well. Still admire Mick Karn's bass playing. Like Sylvian's solo stuff on the whole (and hope the book doesn't change that), although sometimes he got away with releasing stuff that sounded like he was just noodling around at home (e.g. second half of Gone to Earth). I think writing credits can be quite a thorny area - sometimes it's hard to say exactly where the boundary lies between writing & arranging. Yes is a band where I think people lost out on some songs and gained on others (according to Bill Bruford anyaway) and almost everything got stretched so far away from the original writer's idea that you could argue that a full band credit was due. Genesis tried to solve it in the early days by crediting everything to everyone, but then people assumed that Gabriel had written all the lyrics, which was far from the truth. I think quite a few deals have been struck within bands, where people settle for a lump sum and a share of performance/sales royalties while giving up writing credits. My favourite part of Gates of Babylon by Rainbow was written by David Stone, the keyboard player, but he got no writing credit as he was paid upfront for it. Bob Daisley's comments on how he was to be compensated for what he says was his writing on the early Ozzy albums and how that was then circumvented when the CDs were reissued (his parts were re-recorded so he got nothing) makes interesting reading (although I believe this has been rectified on the latest editions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Although Wal basses are just great I'm pretty sure that Karn could have taken any fretless and give that his signature sound.. I believe he played Travis Bean and Klein basses too so it was all in his fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The housemartins and beatiful south all had equal royalties ( may be not credited but all share the same £% ) I believe which I think is very generous of Rotheray / Heaton. That was one band not bothered at all about money and quite refreshing to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='wombatboter' timestamp='1326463069' post='1497549'] Although Wal basses are just great I'm pretty sure that Karn could have taken any fretless and give that his signature sound.. I believe he played Travis Bean and Klein basses too so it was all in his fingers. [/quote] Personally I preferred the sound he got in the studio with the Travis Bean. The Wal was always a little too unsubtle by comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panamonte Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1326472890' post='1497752'] The housemartins and beatiful south all had equal royalties ( may be not credited but all share the same £% ) I believe which I think is very generous of Rotheray / Heaton. That was one band not bothered at all about money and quite refreshing to hear. [/quote] I believe that was the deal with Pulp too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Being unable to find a copy for sale, Clarky and I came to an arrangement where I would receive his copy of this for a small donation to the Basschat fundpool..I've only just looked up after reading 140 pages of Mick Karn's autobigraphy " [b][i]Japan & Self Existance[/i][/b]"... Absolutely enthralling, completely unput-downable - there are so many areas that I can identify with, possibly because of having the same cultural background, perhaps because to some degree we all feel like outsiders, which Mick outlines from the outset. What I can say (without having finished the book yet) is that this is a thoroughly great read and that I wished I'd read this while Mick was alive and that I would have loved to have got inside the head of one of my heroes, though Mick makes it clear that he despised/resented the stardom. The book is full of his own self doubt and in his belief that [u]he[/u] wasn't a good enough bass player..to me, and I'm sure many others, he was a god and an inspiration, being able to get an insight into the workings of the mind of one of my generation's greatest musicians is almost overwhelming. THIS IS A VERY POWERFUL BOOK and I can honestly say that I am moved by reading this.. Throughout what I've read I feel I have touched on some of Mick's torment and I hope that he has finally found the peace that he craved during his, all too short, life time... Mick...rest in peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I'm just resurrecting this thread, simply from the perspective that I bought the book a couple of weeks ago, started it at the weekend and am about 300 pages in. Let's get the preliminaries out of the way. I was a huge fan of Japan pretty much from that first single, many gigs attended, much vinyl (and CDs) purchased, blah blah blah. My fandom waned when Tin Drum came out; the band had changed/evolved(?) to such a point that they were unrecognisable from the band I loved just a few years before. That said, I'd still cite Obscure Alternatives as one of my top five albums (despite it being far from a band favourite). After everything finished, I followed David Sylvian's solo output almost exclusively, I mean, why would I need solo LPs from bass players or drummers? Given everything, aside from a small pile of print cuttings and Paul Rymer's (quite excellent) Nightporter website, I can honestly say I don't really know much about the band beyond the specifics. It's been an interesting read (so far). The book is a bit erratic in as much as it jumps back and forth rather than being chronologically correct, so each new chapter requires a bit of a headwork to know where you are. There's a few eye openers...failed marriage (who knew?), the lack of money, naive contract agreements, poor touring decisions and the obvious David Sylvian references. In these 300 or so pages, I really do feel for the guy, in as much as one can given his circumstance. It's probably easy to say he was effectively living the dream, our dream, of being a musician in a well known band (and various collaborations) and an in-demand session player, but in truth he was bearly making a living; I find it staggering that he was getting less than £15 a week in the early Japan days and at one point he writes that Japan royalties barely covered his council tax or car insurance, but not both. I'll grind through the last 100 or so pages. I suppose the one thing to come out of this is that you just don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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