Gear vs Playing

[dc2009]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371812' date='Sep 13 2011, 02:08 PM']Back to the topic---theres no substitute for practice, technique, and musicallity. A fancy bass isn't going to play a great walking bass line for you. Give any of the great players a bass thats set up correctly and they'll still be able to make some great music. Sure, nice gear can make everything more fun but anyone who thinks buying a new amp is what they need to become a good *musician* is fooling themselves. It might help, but the things you really need to become great can't be bought in shops![/quote]

True, though I've never heard anyone say, I need this amp to make me better. I hear most people say, man I really want that amp, it'll make my bass sound really (insert tone-related term here), or make my onstage rig look really cool etc., myself included.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1371801' date='Sep 13 2011, 02:03 PM']Compare apples with apples and then it might be fair. The two you just selected are many years and many genres apart, and there are not many people out there that are fans of both.[/quote]

Ok, I was being deliberately obtuse! But...The Beach Boys and the Beatles. At The Gates and Metallica. Queen and The Darkness. Aretha and Dusty. Honestly, I just refuse to believe that if anyone who is musically minded would not be able to tell the difference (unless they were coming at it from a position of [b]total [/b] ignorance, but thats slightly different)

[quote]Your post implied, using the phrase #no wonder# that you did think that. I apologise if I misconstrued what you meant.[/quote]

Accepted.

FWIW, I quite like Lady Gaga and have actually got into arguments elsewhere defending her musical "worth". But it just seems like absolute lunacy to me to dismiss Motown and then in the same breath big up the Gaga...

PS log in to spotify and put on a few "best of motown" compilations. If you don't find at least one track you like then you're officially dead inside

[BigRedX]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371831' date='Sep 13 2011, 02:18 PM']PS log in to spotify and put on a few "best of motown" compilations. If you don't find at least one track you like then you're officially dead inside[/quote]
That way leads to the "Phil Collins Syndrome".

A more genuine test would be to see if there's any Motown track you would put on out of choice.

[JTUK]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1371701' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:57 PM']I feel your totally missing the point.
Motown was a company that was churning out song after song for the general public, the broke down barriers between races, making black music desirable to white people. They were a hit making machine.
The whole motown thing was more than just the songs and changed culture for good.

At The Gates are a Sweedish death metal band that have 4 studio albums and no hit songs. People aren't missing out because there is nothing to miss out on.

Fair enough its all your opinion and your entitled to have it, but it has no grounds to stand on as an argument front.





Not every bass player wants to be a session player.....some do it just to enjoy playing the music they enjoy. [/quote]


Ok..not a session... but if someone said play this song with this sort of feel, it might help to know what they are vaguely talking about.
I doubt many here lived through classic motown times and were exposed to that sort of stuff in real time... but by the time you start playing with others, you'll get it. One of my first auditions was all about 60's soul..they were all older...so if I didn't know it then..I knew about it thereafter.

I don't say you have to like it, but I think it helps in countless situations to be aware that there is more to your own genre/favourute stuff.

As I said..building blocks... and you are dismissing so many gigs if your tastes/influences are so insular.. but there you go.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1371841' date='Sep 13 2011, 02:23 PM']That way leads to the "Phil Collins Syndrome".

A more genuine test would be to see if there's any Motown track you would put on out of choice.[/quote]

Maybe. But if someone has to have heard the tracks in the first place before they can choose whether or not to listen to them again

[lojo]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371812' date='Sep 13 2011, 02:08 PM']I'd actually argue that pop music has always been a mess---look back at the charts for any given era and you'll find there's a lot of dross thats been forgotten.[/quote]


Mick Jagger said in a stones film that their have always been pretty boys with nice haircuts in the charts, or something along those lines, yes its always been the case

But remember that some of the older generation in the 60s, thought the beatles, stones and motown were modern rubbish, and then again with 80s pop and ska and so on

Its my turn now to hate chart music !

Edited September 13, 2011 by lojo

[ZMech]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1370466' date='Sep 12 2011, 02:17 PM']I've noticed a couple of posts lately which,to me,give the impression that there are some
people who feel that gear is an important part of improvement as a player or more
important than the player themselves. It's not just limited to this site or bass players in
general...I've seen it with a lot of drummers and guitar players too.

I love gear as much as anyone but I feel that the gear is somewhat secondary to the
player and that everyone would benefit so much more from spending money and time
on lessons and practice rather than spending thousands on gear.

I understand that some people are collectors of instruments but I'm guessing that the
vast majority of people on here are more than that.[/quote]

Not that hard to understand, it's just an attempt at a shortcut, and so a result of mankind's inherent laziness (I include myself in that statement). The amount of time it takes to walk in to a shop and buy [insert your favourite bassist here]'s bass and amp is pretty tiny compared to the amount of time that [reinsert the bassist's name] actually spent practising.

[Mog]

[quote name='silddx' post='1371681' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:47 PM']I think he retired because there's so little of interest that can be said about the matter.

[color="#FFA500"]People appear to talk about shoes a LOT more than they do about walking. So what?[/color][/quote]

Fooking diamond stuff! Well done that man.

[Doddy]

[quote name='martthebass' post='1371672' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:39 PM']To coin a phrase, I think the OP 'lit the blue touch paper and retired' on this.....[/quote]

Nah,I've just been away from my computer until now and it's a pain to post on my phone.

Wow,this thread has gone in a completely different direction hasn't it?

Like I said I love gear and I've got no problem with anyone buying anything they want,but I often get the feel
that a lot people (in general) find the instrument to be more important than what is played on it.
I think ZMech hit it really well-it's a lot easier to feel good and inspired by buying new gear than by spending time practising
something new.I think it's it's all too easy to look at the hippest new gear and think that if you buy one then you will find it
easier to play and sound better and so on and swap and change instruments all the time looking for that special 'something',rather
than buying a decent instrument and become really familiar with it.

[dc2009]

I agree with why you an zmech are saying, doddy, but I know I don't have the money for new gear all the time, and very few on here do. I would say my biggest inspiration is hearing a really cool baseline or piece of music and saying, I want to learn that, dropping everything I'm doing and going to figure it out on my bass.

[thisnameistaken]

I think it's easy to get distracted from the difficult task of learning to play by thinking about gear, and everybody likes new toys don't they. Simple as that.

[Moody]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1372679' date='Sep 13 2011, 11:24 PM']I think it's it's all too easy to look at the hippest new gear and think that if you buy one then you will find it
easier to play and sound better and so on and swap and change instruments all the time looking for that special 'something',rather
than buying a decent instrument and become really familiar with it.[/quote]

I was 'guilty' of this in the past - spent (what to me) was a fotune on a Thunderbird - because it was perfect, more expensive, so 'it' played better etc.etc. I've since gone back to my £150 Mexican Jazz, cause well... I think I 'know' it better. I won't rule out buying something more expensive in the future (or cheaper for that matter) - but I think I'd have a better head on than before.

Experience perhaps? Maybe it's just 'one of those things' we have to go through.

Still shelled out on a Mark Bass though... ;-)

[JTUK]

No one is sticking to the line that a price tag makes things better, surely, but you should get to know what is justified and what isn't as far as you are concerned.

I considered what I have paid for my stuff to be worth it...and I KNOW it suits me.

Expecting to walk into a shop or buy a name on spec and then to be totally sorted smacks of stupidity to me and to be very risky indeed.

[Mog]

[quote name='Moody' post='1372964' date='Sep 14 2011, 10:38 AM']I was 'guilty' of this in the past - spent (what to me) was a fotune on a Thunderbird - because it was perfect, more expensive, so 'it' played better etc.etc. I've since gone back to my £150 Mexican Jazz, cause well... I think I 'know' it better. I won't rule out buying something more expensive in the future (or cheaper for that matter) - but I think I'd have a better head on than before.

Experience perhaps? Maybe it's just 'one of those things' we have to go through.

[color="#FF0000"]Still shelled out on a Mark Bass though... ;-)[/color][/quote]

Thats actually a very valid point IMO. Whats the views in relation to amps, outboards, strings etc.
Surely a cheap packet of Warwick red label will do the same job as a pack of Elixers.
Same thing with a POD. Why bother with expensive amps when you can get a fairly realistic reproduction for less than the price of a half dozen EL34's.

[Guest bassman7755]

I dont practice/learn anything like as much as should or would like to but gear obsession isnt a major cause of that. IME bass players are much less gear obsessed in general than guitarists. I knew one guy who was a total "that sound" freak to point where even having owned every amp and effect on planet earth, started designing and building his own amps.

What him and people like him cant get thier heads round is that the "classic" recorded sounds they are trying to recreate are often as much a product of the sound engineering as they are of the guitar/bass and amp.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1373062' date='Sep 14 2011, 11:58 AM']What him and people like him cant get thier heads round is that the "classic" recorded sounds they are trying to recreate are often as much a product of the sound engineering as they are of the guitar/bass and amp.[/quote]

This!!!

Especially with bass stuff where half the time its been DI'd and bi-amped and fed through umpteen compressors and EQ sections.

[ZMech]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1372679' date='Sep 13 2011, 11:24 PM']I think ZMech hit it really well[/quote]
My apologies, it's just that at that point in the thread the most controversial thing I could think of to say was to actually talk about the OP

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1373062' date='Sep 14 2011, 11:58 AM']What him and people like him cant get thier heads round is that the "classic" recorded sounds they are trying to recreate are often as much a product of the sound engineering as they are of the guitar/bass and amp.[/quote]


Spot on.I was guilty of this in the 80's trying to emulate Steve Severin's (Souxsie and the Banshees,for the youngsters..) sound on their Juju album.Acoustic 220 guitar head,8x10,1x15 W bin,chorus,bit of reverb. When I spoke to him about it,he said "Musicman Stingray straight into the desk".

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='Mog' post='1373060' date='Sep 14 2011, 11:56 AM']Same thing with a POD. Why bother with expensive amps when you can get a fairly realistic reproduction for less than the price of a half dozen EL34's.[/quote]


It may sound like an Ampeg SVT through an 8x10,but it doesn't look like one..

[Moody]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='1373310' date='Sep 14 2011, 03:13 PM']Spot on.I was guilty of this in the 80's trying to emulate Steve Severin's (Souxsie and the Banshees,for the youngsters..) sound on their Juju album.Acoustic 220 guitar head,8x10,1x15 W bin,chorus,bit of reverb. When I spoke to him about it,he said "Musicman Stingray straight into the desk".[/quote]


Sounds like a total face palm moment!

[Spike Vincent]

Pretty much..Unfortunately he didn't know what sort of desk it was.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='1373313' date='Sep 14 2011, 03:15 PM']It may sound like an Ampeg SVT through an 8x10,but it doesn't look like one..[/quote]


And an Ampeg SVT through an 8x10 doesn't look like this ..

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='silddx' post='1373372' date='Sep 14 2011, 04:18 PM']

And an Ampeg SVT through an 8x10 doesn't look like this ..

[/quote]


It's got a guitarist stuck to it!

[Happy Jack]

This is all the gear you need: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-/110739609857?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Outboards_Effects_MJ&hash=item19c8985901"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-/110739609857?...=item19c8985901[/url]

Zen is a wonderful thing ...

[xilddx]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1373578' date='Sep 14 2011, 07:09 PM']This is all the gear you need: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-/110739609857?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Outboards_Effects_MJ&hash=item19c8985901"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-/110739609857?...=item19c8985901[/url]

Zen is a wonderful thing ...[/quote]
Might be worth a punt actually!