Players who've stopped playing Rics?

[Starless]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1263439' date='Jun 9 2011, 11:26 PM']Which Macca bass would fetch the most at an auction?[/quote]

Well..... Highly debatable. Macca's original Hofner was nicked and so it's only a 'replacement'. That one and only Rick provided the basis for probably some of the most famous albums of all time. I know which one I would be bidding on if they ever came up for auction (and I won a triple rollover lottery the week before).

[stingrayPete1977]

But rich yank businessmen will only think Wings for Ric and Beatles for the fiddle bass!

[4000]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='1263412' date='Jun 9 2011, 10:59 PM']How is it sh*te?


This is from experience - if you had a choice of something comfortable and easy to adjust and something with hard edges and harder to adjust then I know which one I'd go for.


And yes, you can get the Hipshot bridge (didn't they have to stop making them because of RIC?) and the Pickguardian thingy for the pickup surround but I wouldn't want to spend £1600 on a bass only to find that I had to buy extra bits to make it easier to adjust[/quote]

Ok, maybe "sh*te" was a bit harsh, sorry , but it just gets so predictable; "I've had a few of bass "x", didn't get on with them, therefore they're crap and should be avoided at all costs".

As I've doubtless posted countless times, I've owned 12 (I think) Rics and played hundreds more. I've owned 4 Fenders or Fender types and played hundreds more. I've also owned about 25-30 other basses from Alembic to Wal and have played literally thousands of others. And yet I keep coming back to my Rics, although my point isn't really about Rics but about preferences.

What you have to realise is that this is all subjective. The Fender bass with it's forearm contour is, for me, one of the least comfortable basses ever made. The contour causes nerve problems in my right arm and actually stops me playing. The "hard edges" of the Ric cause me no such problems. Generally speaking (depends on the bass) I find slab bodies more comfortable. Why? No idea. They just seem to suit me better. So Fenders are NOT more comfortable. They are more comfortable FOR YOU. They may be for many others too, but it's still subjective. Our guitarist can't get on with Les Pauls, he finds Strats far more comfortable. I'm the opposite; a Strat feels far less comfortable than a Les Paul to me. We're different and obviously have different physical requirements.

In terms of build quality, the only new Fender I've bought had a neck that had to be replaced within the first week. The entire neck. That's a biggie. Never had a problem with a Ric (except for a very old and somewhat abused bass where the neck had pulled forward), although I know some others have. However I'm sure someone somewhere has had problems with just about any make you could care to name. Whether they make a huge issue of it is another thing.

In terms of being easy to adjust, what about Fenders where you have to take the entire neck off to adjust the truss rod? Or anything with an ABM bridge, which I actually find far more irritating to adjust than a Ric one? The Ric bridge isn't the easiest thing to adjust, but I've never had a problem with it. If you're not used to it it can be a pain, but you could say that of anything. I had to replace the bridge on my old 70s P Bass because every time I hit the string it moved the string on the saddle. And I play very lightly. I don't stick my finger in the Ric treble pickup hole either so again it's never bothered me. Plenty of people manage without modding. These are all personal preferences and experiences and don't necessarily mean that a particular make is inherently flawed. I would never say the Fender bass is inherently flawed. I don't tend to get on with Status basses; every one I've had I've had problems with, but many people swear by them and have never had a single problem. That's fine by me.

Edited June 10, 2011 by 4000

[mart]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1263167' date='Jun 9 2011, 07:56 PM']... how about I rephrase the question: why is it that established bass players don't seem to gravitate[i] towards[/i] Rics?[/quote]

This seems a good question to ask. And I wonder if it's simply that RIC don't work hard at artist relations. Putting that another way, when famous bassist X switches to brand Y, is that generally because a nice rep from brand Y came and visited him/her and persuaded them to switch?

I don't know if that's the case, but if it is, one could speculate a bit further (since that's what 'tinternet is best at, eh? ): RIC don't seem very interested in increasing their production capacity - they've got a huge waiting list for their gear and are happy with that situation. So maybe they can't see any point trying to get other famous players to play Rics, since that would only lead to more people wanting their kit, and an increase in the waiting list.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='mart' post='1263560' date='Jun 10 2011, 08:06 AM']This seems a good question to ask. And I wonder if it's simply that RIC don't work hard at artist relations. Putting that another way, when famous bassist X switches to brand Y, is that generally because a nice rep from brand Y came and visited him/her and persuaded them to switch?

I don't know if that's the case, but if it is, one could speculate a bit further (since that's what 'tinternet is best at, eh? ): RIC don't seem very interested in increasing their production capacity - they've got a huge waiting list for their gear and are happy with that situation. So maybe they can't see any point trying to get other famous players to play Rics, since that would only lead to more people wanting their kit, and an increase in the waiting list.[/quote]

Although IIRC McCartney said in an interview once that he only started playing the Ric for precisely that reason, cos they gave him a free one, and it was the 1st ACTUAL left hander he'd got hold of.

[bremen]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1263439' date='Jun 9 2011, 11:26 PM']Which Macca bass would fetch the most at an auction? Strangely the Hofner fiddle is one I like playing even less than a Ric. Funny old world.[/quote]

You might have hit on the secret of the Beatles' success: The bass must have a diving neck. That's the common factor!

[hairyhaw]

I take it we're really talking about 4003's and 4001's since these are the two models with issues that people criticise - ropey bridge unit and uncomfortable body binding.

RIC does a few other bass models ie 4004 (Weller's bass player is using one of these at the moment) that eliminate most of the above problems. They don't seem to have caught on hugely though. Biggest demand is for 4003's. Go figure!

RM1999's, V63's, 4000's and nearly all the S models don't have the binding but have the ropey bridge.

Foxton hasn't used Ricks for years, I think it was just dragged out of storage for that photoshoot. And Waters RM1999 was retired due to neck issues.

[Beedster]

[quote name='mart' post='1263560' date='Jun 10 2011, 08:06 AM']This seems a good question to ask. And I wonder if it's simply that RIC don't work hard at artist relations. Putting that another way, when famous bassist X switches to brand Y, is that generally because a nice rep from brand Y came and visited him/her and persuaded them to switch?

I don't know if that's the case, but if it is, one could speculate a bit further (since that's what 'tinternet is best at, eh? ): RIC don't seem very interested in increasing their production capacity - they've got a huge waiting list for their gear and are happy with that situation. So maybe they can't see any point trying to get other famous players to play Rics, since that would only lead to more people wanting their kit, and an increase in the waiting list.[/quote]


[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1263626' date='Jun 10 2011, 09:29 AM']Although IIRC McCartney said in an interview once that he only started playing the Ric for precisely that reason, cos they gave him a free one, and it was the 1st ACTUAL left hander he'd got hold of.[/quote]

Very interesting angle.

This is a really interesting thread guys, thanks for your contributions. As a guy who has been pretty much a Fender player all my life (or Fender derivatives e.g., MM or Fenderalikes e.g., Sadowsky), my recent reunion with my old fretless 4003, lovingly upgraded by Shaggy I should add, has been something of a revelation (see page 4 of [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=125993&hl=)"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=125993&hl=)[/url]. My long-standing reluctance to play Rics was the result of several factors; their strong association with rock and metal (and my assumption that this was their forte), their reputation for being uncomfortable to play, for being clanky/rattly and tonally bland, and for being mechanically unreliable. I only bought my 4003 as it was both fretless and a project (I bought it as body/neck only and built it over a few months), and I thought it would be interesting on both counts. It has certainly undermined all of my preconceptions about Rics, especially now it has authentic Ric PUPs and bridge (it started out with SDs and a Hipshot). Firstly, it plays magnificently; the neck, which is WIDE, is however very fast. Secondly, OK, the bridge isn't state of the art in terms of function, but it does all that it needs to do on this bass, and I have to say, tonally I prefer it to the Hipshot. To be honest, I can't see how anyone could describe it as being any worse than the classic Fender BBOT. Thirdly - and this is the key - it is way more than a one-trick-pony tonally (hence I would guess Silverfoxnik's surprise to my post in the thread linked to above). It does everything from biting treble (not the sort of zingy treble I associate with Jazzes or 'rays, but a far more substantial treble tone), through powerful and articulate mids along the lines I'd guess of the classic McCartney and Foxton tone, through to deep, almost dub-like bass. I can also state without fear of contradiction that of all the basses I've played, none will get closer to sounding like a DB (to the point where I'm going to sell my Yamaha EUB). OK, for sure I'm a serious and intense honeymoon period with this bass at present, and things could change, but the Ric is currently sitting next to a late 70's maple board Precision fretless, and by comparison, on all counts, the Precision - which I love - seems so crude and limited (and remember, I've been a Precision player for years). And I have to say, the build quality is phenomenal, reallyl; the finish and feel of the instrument is something I've not come across before with a bass, and it is totally unique in my experience.

But you know, I think the thing that has most got to me about the Ric is just how much I enjoy playing it, we have gelled in a way I haven't gelled with a bass for years. And that's why I posted this thread; it just seemed odd that so many players have move from Ric to something else, and so few the other way around.

C

PS am I correct in thinking that Ric is about the only bass brand that commands more cash new than for the same vintage model (70's 4001s and 4003s seem to go for around £1200 which is around £500 less than their new counterparts).

[bremen]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1263760' date='Jun 10 2011, 11:32 AM']the Ric is currently sitting next to a late 70's maple board Precision fretless, and by comparison, on all counts, the Precision - which I love - seems so crude and limited[/quote]

That's why I got rid of it ;-)

EDIT: kidding!

Edited June 10, 2011 by bremen

[Mr Fudge]

After years of only playing Jazzes I bit the bullet and bought a 2010 Jetglo from Paulie (fantastic bloke to deal with) in January. I had played 3/4 in Guitar Guitar in Brum in the preceding months, sometimes loving them and sometimes not. Paulie assured me that his immaculate 2010 Jetglo was a real pick of the litter and boy was he right. This bass is fantastically well built.

6 months into my ric I am still struggling with the balance a little bit and it is not as fast as my skinny neck Jazz basses (not that that matters) but it is a fantastic bass and has changed my approach to playing again, which I feel is a positive. It is great for more melodic stuff and the tone sits great within a band to "add to that wall of sound" with tracks with strings etc..

Previously I decided I hated P basses. Tone too bland, neck too wide. I tried a Lakland the other day and loved it. I think I now get it about the P and as a result have major gas for one, possibly vintage

As a result I take my Jazz and Ric to gigs and give both of them a rum out.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

You can mess around with your EQ all you like, you will never get another bass to sound like a Rick - similar maybe, but they have a genuinely unique element to the growl that is unmistakeable. Lots of people say their Jazz bass can pull off a convincing impression. I don't doubt they can dial in a cutting, clanky pick tone, but it will still sound like a jazz.

But this is all academic I suppose. To me the classic Rick growl is one of the holy grails of bass tone - I have immersed myself for years in its sounds, listening to the countless classic records it was played on. I know it when I hear it.

But then again on the other hand, there are certain basses that I'm not much of a fan of that are considered to have a unique and unmistakeable tone - I could probably convince myself I could pull off a convincing impersonation on a Wishbass.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='4000' post='1263350' date='Jun 9 2011, 10:05 PM']He does, and the sound is a million miles away![/quote]


He sounded just like himself on the clips i've heard.

I really don't get the whole "Ric sound" thing, the ones i've played have sounded nothing like what i have come to expect, that's with me playing them and their owners gigging them. The best "Ric" sound i've had from a bass was attained with an RD Artist.

I also find them uncomfortable basses to use btw, the little quirks are, for me, serious design faults.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' post='1263966' date='Jun 10 2011, 02:26 PM']You can mess around with your EQ all you like, you will never get another bass to sound like a Rick - similar maybe, but they have a genuinely unique element to the growl that is unmistakeable.[/quote]


See above!
The RD Artist i had could absolutely nail that sound, better than most Rics i've heard

[4000]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='1264124' date='Jun 10 2011, 04:47 PM']He sounded just like himself on the clips i've heard.

I really don't get the whole "Ric sound" thing, the ones i've played have sounded nothing like what i have come to expect, that's with me playing them and their owners gigging them. The best "Ric" sound i've had from a bass was attained with an RD Artist.

I also find them uncomfortable basses to use btw, the little quirks are, for me, serious design faults.[/quote]

His Ric sound and his P bass sound are nothing like each other IMO, but I think we've just been through a similar issue in another thread. Depends on your ears I guess.

What's funny is I can get my Rics to sound pretty much exactly like many of those classic records, as can certain of my friends that own them. Ever thought you're maybe doing something wrong? One thing I will say is I don't feel that if you want that classic sound you can just plug in and play; there's a lot of tweaking involved. I eq pretty heavily. You also need the right Ric and the right amp.....

[Delberthot]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1263626' date='Jun 10 2011, 09:29 AM']Although IIRC McCartney said in an interview once that he only started playing the Ric for precisely that reason, cos they gave him a free one, and it was the 1st ACTUAL left hander he'd got hold of.[/quote]


I remember hearing that he preferred the Rick and only went back to the Hofner because Elvis Costello said that he suited the Hofner more than the Rick.


And someone mentioned the lack of artist relations. I had quite an interesting debate on the Rickresource when I suggested that the Rick that Lemmy used with the maple fretboard and the star inlays was in fact a copy which meant that the extremely limited edition of about 50 Lemmy Basses hand carved by pixies in gum tree lane was silly as he had never played an original one. Plus it had no bearing on anything he had used as it couldn't possibly be a proper signature model as it was a completely different spec

No one could provide evidence that the Rick in question was real but it didn't stop their witch hunt

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='1264128' date='Jun 10 2011, 04:50 PM']See above!
The RD Artist i had could absolutely nail that sound, better than most Rics i've heard[/quote]

We'll agree to differ.

[mart]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='1264416' date='Jun 10 2011, 09:37 PM']I remember hearing that he preferred the Rick and only went back to the Hofner because Elvis Costello said that he suited the Hofner more than the Rick.

And someone mentioned the lack of artist relations. I had quite an interesting debate on the Rickresource when I suggested that the Rick that Lemmy used with the maple fretboard and the star inlays was in fact a copy which meant that the extremely limited edition of about 50 Lemmy Basses hand carved by pixies in gum tree lane was silly as he had never played an original one. Plus it had no bearing on anything he had used as it couldn't possibly be a proper signature model as it was a completely different spec

No one could provide evidence that the Rick in question was real but it didn't stop their witch hunt[/quote]

You could also have some fun on the Ric forums with this quote from Lemmy about the pickups in his sig bass as compared with their standard pickups: "Yes - Rickenbacker finally made a good pickup!" (BGM Ric special, Sep/Oct 2007).

And now that I've got the mag to hand, here's a quote about Bruce Foxton's use of a Ric on The Modern World: "Like many of the listings here, care is needed to ensure that what you are hearing is a Rickenbacker bass." So BGM at least don't seem to feel that the Ric sound is only obtainable with a Ric. Of course, depending on your opinion of BGM, that might not impress you too much!

[4000]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='1264416' date='Jun 10 2011, 09:37 PM']I remember hearing that he preferred the Rick and only went back to the Hofner because Elvis Costello said that he suited the Hofner more than the Rick.


And someone mentioned the lack of artist relations. I had quite an interesting debate on the Rickresource when I suggested that the Rick that Lemmy used with the maple fretboard and the star inlays was in fact a copy which meant that the extremely limited edition of about 50 Lemmy Basses hand carved by pixies in gum tree lane was silly as he had never played an original one. Plus it had no bearing on anything he had used as it couldn't possibly be a proper signature model as it was a completely different spec

No one could provide evidence that the Rick in question was real but it didn't stop their witch hunt[/quote]

McCartney was also starting to find the Ric heavy too (he's getting on you know) which was a factor.

As for "Lemmy had never played an original one", you've lost me. Lemmy has played loads of original ones. Are you not very familiar with Hawkwind / Motorhead or something? His original bass was "an original one", the White BT was an original one, etc etc. The maple-necked one isn't the only Ric (whether it is or isn't) Lem has ever played, it's one of many. As for the spec, Ric have stated quite categorically that when an artist gets a signature model (which they don't bother with now) it isn't necessarily an exact copy of an instrument the artist has played but more of a version that the artist wants to play, designed in conjunction with the artist; it will therefore vary according to the artist in question. With Lem it was more a case of "if we built you a signature Ric what would you want?".

I find irrational hatred of a particular brand really weird. If someone doesn't like something, fine, but to then feel the need to (using your own words) turn it into a witch-hunt I just find very odd. Did John Hall once pee in your wardrobe or something?

[Beedster]

I find the discussion about whether or not a bass played on a certain track was a Ric really interesting, partly because how a bass sounds recorded is a function of so many things way beyond the characteristics of the bass itself, and secondly because I'm in awe of anyone who can see though all of those factors and still state with certainty that it's a Ric, or a Wal, or a Jazz etc. This really is the crux of why I asked the question in the first place; I had all the preconceptions I've listed above about Rics, and the most important of these - tone - was proved to be completely false. I assumed clanky and trebly and got smooth and rich. OK, it's fretless and I'm playing flats which of course both make a huge difference, but I had an old fretless 'ray that I played with flats and that was most certainly trebly and clanky by comparison. I guess the point I'm making - poorly! - is that given how different this bass sounds to how I'd expected it to, and given how versatile it is as an instrument, I'd question the idea that there is a Ric sound per se, but more a sound that has become associated with the instrument, that players have bought the instrument for, and that players have - one way or another - extracted from that instrument to a greater or lesser degree. The discussion regarding whether track A was or was not a Ric, and the suggestion from many quarters that "it might sound like a Ric but it wasn't a Ric" (see [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=140492&hl=geddy)"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...2&hl=geddy)[/url] only reinforces this to my mind (I don't believe that a Ric is the only bass that can get the Ric tone any more than I believe that the Precision is the only bass that can do P-tone - OK, they might do them more readily or exclusively for sure)? Playing my Ric last night I realised that especially at the dusty end it can do tones very similar to my old pre-EB 'ray with flats, punchy but clear and clean; it can do tones not dissimilar to a classic Precision, and also tones very close to a Telebass (yet unlike the Tele, with more clarity and with the ability to tame the depth with the bridge PUP). They're three very different tones.!

[RhysP]

One of the main reasons Geddy Lee moved away from using his Rickenbacker was purely practical.
When they started playing bigger stages & his keyboard rig began to get much bigger he found the Rick quite unwieldy to have around his neck whilst playing keyboards, which is why he started to use the Steinberger.

The other reason was that he started to use wireless transmitters & found using stereo transmitters with the Rick too much hassle.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='4000' post='1264682' date='Jun 11 2011, 10:11 AM']I find irrational hatred of a particular brand really weird. If someone doesn't like something, fine, but to then feel the need to (using your own words) turn it into a witch-hunt I just find very odd. Did John Hall once pee in your wardrobe or something?[/quote]

2 points there for me,

1- Why is it irrational hatred? I dont like the neck dive, neck profile, build quality, finish, the bridge or the various sharp bits that protrude from most Rics thats before we get to the sounds, so if someone else feels like me then thats not irrational at all is it? It might not fit your feelings about them but its not irrational at all IMO.

2- As I read it it was the Ric fan Boi's that were carrying out said witch hunt?

[4000]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1264854' date='Jun 11 2011, 12:58 PM']2 points there for me,

1- Why is it irrational hatred? I dont like the neck dive, neck profile, build quality, finish, the bridge or the various sharp bits that protrude from most Rics thats before we get to the sounds, so if someone else feels like me then thats not irrational at all is it? It might not fit your feelings about them but its not irrational at all IMO.

2- As I read it it was the Ric fan Boi's that were carrying out said witch hunt?[/quote]

1) It's irrational because not liking certain things about that brand doesn't mean that brand is crap, which is what keeps being implied. Have you actually read my posts? I don't like Fenders much for reasons already discussed, but that doesn't mean they're crap. I don't get on with Status, but that doesn't mean they're crap. The Ric haters seem to hate everything about the basses, the company, the people who like them; there is nothing, nothing, NOTHING to like about them and everybody who does like them is some sort of deluded fanboy.....that, to me, is irrational hatred. They don't seem to be able to just say "oh it's just not for me" or accept that to someone else they might just actually work better, sound better, be more comfortable etc. I would defend any brand in the same way. If somebody said the same about Fender, or in your case Musicman, I would still say it was irrational hatred.

2) You misunderstood my post. I appropriated his words to use in the context of him appearing to be carrying out a witchhunt against Ric (see above).

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='4000' post='1265005' date='Jun 11 2011, 03:24 PM']1) It's irrational because not liking certain things about that brand doesn't mean that brand is crap, which is what keeps being implied. Have you actually read my posts? I don't like Fenders much for reasons already discussed, but that doesn't mean they're crap. I don't get on with Status, but that doesn't mean they're crap. The Ric haters seem to hate everything about the basses, the company, the people who like them; there is nothing, nothing, NOTHING to like about them and everybody who does like them is some sort of deluded fanboy.....that, to me, is irrational hatred. They don't seem to be able to just say "oh it's just not for me" or accept that to someone else they might just actually work better, sound better, be more comfortable etc. I would defend any brand in the same way. If somebody said the same about Fender, or in your case Musicman, I would still say it was irrational hatred.

2) You misunderstood my post. I appropriated his words to use in the context of him appearing to be carrying out a witchhunt against Ric (see above).[/quote]

1) I know nothing of the company and dont like any other companys anyway really (Sterling Ball is a cock) so I only take the instruments as I find them. I know Ric players get some stick but what to many people is a rational list of reasons why we dont like them is to you an irrational hatred maybe? I drive old bangers and I love them but I can accept their flaws as its charachter and dont mind other people classing them as crap, Its life

2) Then you misunderstood his post as to me it implies that they had a witch hunt against him for suggesting bad things about Rics?

Edited June 11, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1263099' date='Jun 9 2011, 07:15 PM']I saw Bruce Foxton on the cover of BGM a couple of years ago with an all-black 4003 (Jetglo with black scratchplate) but yeah its true he plays Fender more[/quote]
I read some promo material for a "From The Jam" tour last year & it said he used a Precision for most of The Jam's recording; Malice was specifically mentioned. Surprised me, taking the blurb at face value.

[quote name='4000' post='1264682' date='Jun 11 2011, 10:11 AM']As for "Lemmy had never played an original one", you've lost me. Lemmy has played loads of original ones. Are you not very familiar with Hawkwind / Motorhead or something? His original bass was "an original one", the White BT was an original one, etc etc. The maple-necked one isn't the only Ric (whether it is or isn't) Lem has ever played, it's one of many. As for the spec, Ric have stated quite categorically that when an artist gets a signature model (which they don't bother with now) it isn't necessarily an exact copy of an instrument the artist has played but more of a version that the artist wants to play, designed in conjunction with the artist; it will therefore vary according to the artist in question. With Lem it was more a case of "if we built you a signature Ric what would you want?".[/quote]

In the early 80's there was an excellent A5 size magaine called "Music UK". I don't think it lasted long. But one I kept for years had a Lemmy special in it, from when they'd really hit the big time. He said his all maple Rick started off as a Fireglo (he said it was pink) which he hated, so he sanded it all off. Not being arsed to refin it, it was for several years - in his words - bled on, spewed on, spat on & had all kinds of alcohol and bodily fluids soaked into it. When it got too much he sanded it back again. He thought between the now slightly smaller body size & all of the abuse it was what gave it "his tone". And of course he "always" replaced the neck pup with one from a Thunderbird.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Big_Stu

[4000]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1265044' date='Jun 11 2011, 04:08 PM']1) I know nothing of the company and dont like any other companys anyway really (Sterling Ball is a cock) so I only take the instruments as I find them. I know Ric players get some stick but what to many people is a rational list of reasons why we dont like them is to you an irrational hatred maybe? I drive old bangers and I love them but I can accept their flaws as its charachter and dont mind other people classing them as crap, Its life

2) Then you misunderstood his post as to me it implies that they had a witch hunt against him for suggesting bad things about Rics?[/quote]

1) No, you're completely missing the point I'm making. I accept that some people don't like them for those reasons. What I object to is that many (not necessarily you) seem to think that others should dislike them for the same reasons. That is irrational.

I'm getting sick of repeating myself, but to categorically state that a Fender (to use the example given) is far more comfortable is nonsense unless it's qualified. How can it be categorically far more comfortable if I don't find it so? If someone says "I find it far more comfortable" I don't object to that at all; if they do, they do, but it doesn't mean I should too.

What if someone inexperienced reads a load of "bass x is crap" stuff and on the basis of that dismisses them out of hand, when it could be that "bass x", be it Ric, Fender, Musicman, Wishbass, Kay, whatever, is the bass that would suit them more than any other?