5 Strings

[Doddy]

[quote name='Jakester' post='1244862' date='May 25 2011, 09:55 PM']Well, blimey. That didn't go well.

I knew it was going to be a challenge, but not quite as bad as that!

It's a bit early to be making an absolute decision, but given how tough the learning curve was, and because I can only keep one bass, I'm leaning towards moving the 5er on already.

I found I really didn't need the bottom end as I thought I would in the tunes I was playing. It was nice to have the E at the 5th fret rather than open, but that was really the only discernible bonus for me.

The low-B just felt.... indistinct - there wasn't the bite that the 4er had, despite being the same pickups and wood.

I'm going to sleep on it (not literally - that wouldn't do much for resale value! ) but I'm deffo leaning towards the 4...[/quote]

Give it chance,it takes longer than a day to acclimatise yourself to the extra string. When I first played a 5,I was consistently hitting the wrong string for a few days.
I get the feeling that you were hoping to camp out in the lower range and found out that it didn't fit-it rarely does. If you don't want to use the added range,don't...but it's a good option to have,even if it's only one or two notes per gig.

[JTUK]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1245966' date='May 26 2011, 05:49 PM']Erm Sadowsky at the forefront? I though they were MM copies hence the stolen headstock design that still exists, Sadowksy obviously felt they were good enough to copy [/quote]


Yep..Sadwosky were at the forefront of making quality 5's in the late 80's and early 90's. Fender couldn't do it which is why there are so many dog 5 stringers from back then..IMV.. and Sadowsky
was committed enough to buck the trend of neck-thru build that Fodera etc were doing..as he knew a bolt-on 34 neck worked well enough.
I am not sure when the first MM 5 came out but I'd bet that a Sadowsky 5 would predate it.

The reason that Sadowsky did well was that he improved on a decent enough Fender template and made decent enough mods to sell to the NY session scene
who were discerning enough at that time.

[Truckstop]

+1

I use the B, C, C# and the D about 4 times each in my bands set, but I couldnt imagine playing those notes an octave up. The riffs would just lose all that power!

Truckstop

[markstuk]

Not really my point.. Let me be more direct. The assumption I'm questioning is that superb build/setup etc is the main contributor to "good" B's (although of course it's not as simple as just scale length since we're not rigidly attached to the nut are we?) In which case a superbly constructed 29" scale bass should have a better B than say a 35" Ibanez BTB for instance... So what is the critical minimum scale length for an otherwise optimally good bass B string (something like a Ray perhaps? )


[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1245984' date='May 26 2011, 06:02 PM']Like many things a 34" doesn't meen it will have a bad B and 35" won't meen it has a good one either, Both outcomes can exist with either although as there appear to be less cheap 35"'s about it will be less likely to get a bad B in a 35". If the neck has a lot of flex at that tension the B won't be good no matter how long it is the same as if it has skinny strings on.[/quote]

[Ed_S]

[quote name='Jakester' post='1244862' date='May 25 2011, 09:55 PM']I'm leaning towards moving the 5er on already.[/quote]

Before you move it on, you could always try it strung the other way (E,A,D,G,C) and see what you think to that.

[ThomBassmonkey]

A longer B string is better than a shorter one (IMO it's easier to get the tone and tension). But scale length is far from the only factor in it, a better constructed 34" scale bass will probably be better than a worse constructed 35".

I play two 34" scale 5 strings and they're both great. The shorter scale length feels better IMO too, I spent years playing a 35" 6 string but the 3 34" 5 strings I've had have all been brilliantly made and sounded great.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='markstuk' post='1245972' date='May 26 2011, 05:54 PM']If scale length has "nothing" to do with it, why are we all not playing 29" scale basses? Or is it that 34" is a magic number?[/quote]
What I meant was that simply adding an extra inch to the scale length is no guarantee of a better sounding B string. Rather than looking for a bass with a slightly longer scale length, it would normally be better to look for one with a better made neck/neck joint.

I own a number of 5-string basses with scale lengths of 34", 35" and 36". Of these, the best sounding B is on one of the 34" scale basses, the least good are the two 35" scale basses. There are 35" scale length basses with good sounding B strings, but IME at the cheaper end of the market (sub £1000) simply adding an extra inch to scale length is seen as a cheap (but mostly ineffective) fix.

As for how short can you make the scale length and still get a good sounding B string? There are a couple of BassChatters with 33" 5-string basses who seem to like their B strings. Birdsong make a 5-string with a 31" scale length and while I haven't tried it myself, I've not heard anything bad about it, so it most likely satisfies the players who own one. Below that without specialised strings you start running into problems with getting a decent sound out of the E string, so whether it becomes effective to build very short scale 5-strings is debatable.

[Jakester]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1245327' date='May 26 2011, 10:49 AM']It seems that you've chosen this 5 string bass with your eyes. I would still expect a G&L 5 string to sound good though. Maybe it's your rig that can't handle the low notes? Have you tried DR strings? I think they can tighten up your sound. Failing that I'd go back to the start and listen to other basses and choose the best sounding one.[/quote]

Nope, I chose it based on how the 4 played - great sound, comfortable neck, brilliant electronics.

Rig is fine - MB500 through a GK 2x12 Neo.

It's more that fact that I simply didn't find the low notes added anything to those already available - if anything, it left a space under the guitars as it went lower.

[Jakester]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1245990' date='May 26 2011, 06:08 PM']I get the feeling that you were hoping to camp out in the lower range and found out that it didn't fit-it rarely does. If you don't want to use the added range,don't...but it's a good option to have,even if it's only one or two notes per gig.[/quote]

That could be it.

My problem is I can't afford to have both guitars, and the L2000T just plays better to me for what I want it for.

I suppose I can always pick another up, be it 4 or 5.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1245997' date='May 26 2011, 06:14 PM']Yep..Sadwosky were at the forefront of making quality 5's in the late 80's and early 90's. Fender couldn't do it which is why there are so many dog 5 stringers from back then..IMV.. and Sadowsky
was committed enough to buck the trend of neck-thru build that Fodera etc were doing..as he knew a bolt-on 34 neck worked well enough.
I am not sure when the first MM 5 came out but I'd bet that a Sadowsky 5 would predate it.

The reason that Sadowsky did well was that he improved on a decent enough Fender template and made decent enough mods to sell to the NY session scene
who were discerning enough at that time.[/quote]

The Ray five was in full production and available to the public in 1987 and been seen as the industry standard five ever since as far as I know I was thinking Lakland as far as the MM influence rather than sadowsky anyway and only remembered after I had posted it although Roger has still copied the headstock but without the classic 3-1 tuners.

[Musicman20]

I'd say the Ray 5 is the industry standard, but yep, Sadowsky definitely know what they are doing.

I don't 100% get on with the Sadowsky jazz tone, but I know one day I will try to hunt one down.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1246393' date='May 26 2011, 10:44 PM']I'd say the Ray 5 is the industry standard, but yep, Sadowsky definitely know what they are doing.

I don't 100% get on with the Sadowsky jazz tone, but I know one day I will try to hunt one down.[/quote]
When did Sadowsky make his first fiver then Gareth? I'm not knocking sads btw I like them and would own one if one came knocking in the future.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Jakester' post='1246069' date='May 26 2011, 07:03 PM']Rig is fine - MB500 through a GK 2x12 Neo.[/quote]

Agreed with that, I use an MB Fusion and one or two NEO212s and they're great on the low notes.

If you drop too low, as others have said, a gap opens between bass and guitar. Generally I only use the B string if we're playing a riff in D (and I'm still an octave down), I'm going down in a run or rarely in a few places, I don't often hang on the lower notes though.

Using the notes properly is something you get used to, same as the higher notes, you won't be playing them all the time but they have their place if used well. You wouldn't get a bass with only 7 frets just in case you want to move up the neck, there's no reason you shouldn't have a bass with a low B just in case you want to go down, even if you rarely use it.