4x10 Expansion

[Bloc Riff Nut]

Hi guys(and the odd lady, here and there),

I'm thinking about expanding my current set-up. I'm playing Eden D410XLT (4Ohm) through a Trace Elliot V6 (2-4Ohm switchable).

I need something for home practice, that is also compatible with the existing D410xlt. I can't use the 4x10 at home, I can't get it up the stairs.
I was thinking about either the Eden D210XLT or the Eden D115XLT. Both are available at 4 Ohms. What are the pro's 'n'cons. Would the 2 10's sit much tighter with the existing 4 10's? Would a 15 give me what the 10's aren't?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Phil.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Bloc Riff Nut

[chrismuzz]

I've heard that it's best to stick to the same size speakers when using multiple cabs, particularly if you like the sound the 10s give you. Also i heard something about phasing issues with using different speakers? I don't know for certain, as I've only ever used one cab at once. Can't be that bad though as a lot of people mix 10s and 15s together in their rig! I think your best bet (albiet a bit of a pain in the arse) would be to find somewhere you can test your amp through both the 2x10 and the 1x15 on its own, AND with the 4x10.

Sorry I couldn't be of much more help than that but i'm sure someone with some actual knowledge will jump in soon

All the best in your quest for the ultimate setup!

[Lozz196]

Having been in the same position, and having done both the 410 & 115, or 410 & 210, I`d choose the 210 as the extra cab.

Adding a 115 to me changes the sound, giving extra lows, so there`s then the issue of adjusting eqs etc, if you only use the extra cab for gigs.

Whereas adding a 210 just makes the same sound much bigger and richer, so it`s just easier. And as it`s a bigger richer sound, this adds more depth anyway - or at least has, in my experience.

The other thing is, if you play large stages, and want a cab on either side, you can still do it with the same sound/speakers either side if you have a 210. Where doing this with a 115 makes each side sound different. And not too nice on the 115 side.

So for easiness, and flexibility, do the 10s, in my view.

[Phil Starr]

Hi Phil, ask yourself how much you need this extra speaker on stage. If the answer is that you are happy with the stage volume and sound then just get a speaker for practice. If the answer is that you want to change your stage sound and/or want to use a smaller speaker for other gigs and leave the 4x10 behind then OK.

Forget about speakers having a sound related to their size. Cone size is only one factor in a speakers sound and not even the most important one. 10's from different manufacturers have different sounds, as do 12's and 15's with things like 'punch' and 'bottom' overlapping.

Mixing speakers isn't good or bad as some people seem to imply but can be unpredictable. The main feature that determines a speakers sound is the little peaks and troughs in it's frequency response. If you add a differnt speaker then it will have it's own peaks and troughs. Where they coincide there will be a bigger peak but most of them will probably not coincide and the effect will be a levelling out of the response. The sound will be smoother but will lose a little of the character of each speaker. Imagine if you used two graphics and on one you boosted 1kHz in the mids and on the other you cut by exactly the same amount. The overall effect would be nothing.

there are also beaming effects by using multple drivers and interferences due to the spacings of the drivers but that's a little complex for a shortish answer.

so if you love the sound you are now getting then get a 2x10 which has identical drivers or that sound is going to change.

If you want a change of sound then don't get hung up on speaker size. I'd go for a cab that sounded good first of all. I practice harder when it sounds good and so do most of us. If it sounds good and you can use it for small gigs then your back will thank you. If you want deeper lows or more highs look for a cab that does this better than you current cab but don't expect it to be too dramatic because of the levelling off effect. the biggest effect will probably be having the speakers nearer to ear level. You'll hear yourself play more clearly and probably turn down which will clean up your stage sound, always a good thing.

Finally think about impedance and efficiency. If you use an 8 ohm cab with your 4ohm cab then the 4 ohm cab will take twice as much power as the original cab and you'll be running the amp into 2.7 ohms. can your amp cope. Run into two 4ohm cans and the power will be shared evenly but you will potentially reduce the power going to the 4x10. Make sure the speakers are similar in their efficiency. The 4x10 is probably pretty loud and if the new speaker isn't efficient you wont hear it when you run them together.

Cheers

[Bloc Riff Nut]

Thanks for your input guys. I love my current sound so I think I'll be going with the 10's.

[JTUK]

If you can't get a 4x10 up stairs, the 1x15 will not be much better

THe 210XLT would be my choice.

[icastle]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1222002' date='May 6 2011, 10:16 AM']If you can't get a 4x10 up stairs, the 1x15 will not be much better

THe 210XLT would be my choice.[/quote]

+1

My 1x15 is near enough the same size as my 4x10.

[chris_b]

If you have to get a second cab get an 8 ohm Eden 210XLT. All 6 speakers will then get the same volume so they will balance, rather than a 4 ohm 210 which will get the same power as the 410.

An Eden 610 would sound pretty good.

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1222128' date='May 6 2011, 12:17 PM']..............
An Eden 610 would sound pretty good.[/quote]


I would love a 610... have seen a few Goliaths snrs that would really work..
just can't get it into my car so am going down 210 route...and am thinking whether to add another 210 or 1x15.
I could struggle to gigs in my car like that for those larger stages..otherwise am stucking with 12's for all else.

I don't want to be humping 210/1x5 ect ect to all gigs though... just one or two and seperates are then expensive.

But what the hell...

[Lozz196]

For me, ideally it would be amp & 410 (which is on castors) for practices, amp, 410 & 210 for gigs.

Just trying to resist the lure of a 210 myself at present - don`t need it volume wise, but from experience in the past, it does make a difference to the depth of sound.

But my back, and wallet will hate me, so I`m doing my best to resist.

[skychaserhigh]

I have used Hartke 4x10 and 2x10 cabs together for the last 9 years or so.
I can use the small cab for home practice , and both cabs for gigs. This combo works great for me. The 2x10 is not as deep sounding as the 4x10 but the extra height of the stack lets me hear myself better and the two cabs really work well together.

Dave.

[Bloc Riff Nut]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1222128' date='May 6 2011, 12:17 PM']If you have to get a second cab get an 8 ohm Eden 210XLT. All 6 speakers will then get the same volume so they will balance, rather than a 4 ohm 210 which will get the same power as the 410.

An Eden 610 would sound pretty good.[/quote]

The guy at Eden customer support said,"I'd go with the 2x10xst at 8 Ohms, it has slightly more bottom than the xlt and will complement the 4x10 perfectly.

[Delberthot]

call me old fashioned but if I were mixing speaker sizes from the same company I'd be more likely to go for a 15" & 2x10" or 2x15" & 4x10" as everything I've read would suggest that 2x10"s and a 15" are closer to the same level of output than 4x10"s and a 15".

Edited May 6, 2011 by Delberthot

[E sharp]

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1222374' date='May 6 2011, 04:59 PM']The guy at Eden customer support said,"I'd go with the 2x10xst at 8 Ohms, it has slightly more bottom than the xlt and will complement the 4x10 perfectly.[/quote]
That's a combination that has been mentioned alot over on Talkbass . A popular one by all accounts .
I was going to go down this route , but ended up with a 610 instead .
As stated , make it a 8ohm 210 with the 4ohm 410 , and all the speakers will be pumping out the same .