RH750 v RH450 First impressions

[Muppet]

Here's the two side by side (and on top!).

Different colours as you can see, and the 750 operates with a fan from start up whereas the 450 doesn't. Headphone jack is now 3.5mm and on the rear to make room for the dedicated compressor dial. Apart from that, exactly the same on the outside.

The centre frequencies of the bass and treble have been shifted lower and higher respectively which I found much more to my liking (now 200hz and 4000hz) although the selectable range using the parametric function has not changed at all. The compressor functions as well as on the 450 but I find the tubetone effect seems to be more obvious at lower settings. It's before the power stage so isn't a direct result of additional power.

The main change for me is the tweetertone addition. This adds just the right amount of HF control for me that was lacking the 450 that I couldn't get anywhere near using the treble control. It's early days but I'm impressed. Ifyou don't use the tweetertone, you get the exact same sound as the 450.

I'm using it with a RS212 and also an Eden 1x15 where needs be. Obviously there's more power but to be honest I can't say I've noticed it so far.

In summary, a good evolution of the 450, worthwhile if you like the effect that tweetertone brings. Not convinced that a trade up from a 450 is worth it if additional power is all you're looking for.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Muppet

[LLOYDWT]

Nice post & good to hear some info from a source other than TC. Think I'll stick with my 450 for the time being.

[Musicman20]

Mine is due tomorrow. I upgraded simply for the tweetertone and just having the latest one! Sad, isnt it!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1205335' date='Apr 19 2011, 11:01 PM']Mine is due tomorrow. I upgraded simply for the tweetertone and just having the latest one! Sad, isnt it![/quote]
If the power upgrade is not as big as the numbers suggest then maybe your prediction of it blowing the streamliner 900 away might not be the case afterall

[Muppet]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1205335' date='Apr 19 2011, 11:01 PM']Mine is due tomorrow. I upgraded simply for the tweetertone and just having the latest one! Sad, isnt it![/quote]

It was the tweetertone that interested me too, and I'm quite pleased by it. I'd be interested to hear what you think. I won't be gigging it till Friday so that'll be the proof of the pudding.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1205343' date='Apr 19 2011, 11:10 PM']If the power upgrade is not as big as the numbers suggest then maybe your prediction of it blowing the streamliner 900 away might not be the case afterall [/quote]

Hmm, we shall see. TC rates their watts much more conservatively cf to say Genz, so the Shuttle 9.0 is probably not that much more powerful than the RH450...I've heard tests on talkbass about this.

I don't need the wattage but what the heck, TC make fantastic high end gear

[chris_b]

[quote name='Muppet' post='1205304' date='Apr 19 2011, 10:36 PM']....Ifyou don't use the tweetertone, you get the exact same sound as the 450....[/quote]
That's disappointing. If there is no difference in tone and they are still only a recommended 4 ohm minimum load then there's little point in upgrading.

[PURPOLARIS]

Come on guys, hurry up and upgrade, I'm looking for a RH450

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1205403' date='Apr 20 2011, 12:11 AM']Hmm, we shall see. TC rates their watts much more conservatively cf to say Genz, so the Shuttle 9.0 is probably not that much more powerful than the RH450...I've heard tests on talkbass about this.

I don't need the wattage but what the heck, TC make fantastic high end gear [/quote]
I can't say I have run either my RH450 or SL900 anywhere close to max (who would?), but I can categorically state that, in my experience, the SL900 'sounds' far more powerful - as in effortless and more dynamic - than the TC. The SL900 has PHAT and 3DPM going on - I don't know whether that's anything to do with it.

Wondering how loud either the SL900 or RH750 will go is fruitless, IMO. They're loud. If you run out of steam, you need to buy a PA.

[Musicman20]

I definitely won't be maxing them out. Im not usually one to be at loud levels, but yeah, the feel between the shuttle 9 and 450 was night and day, and they seemed to almost have the same headroom. Odd!

Wattage is never an issue, but the new high powered amps should not compress and clamp like the LM2 etc when pushing a largeish 8 ohm load.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Musicman20

[Muppet]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1205421' date='Apr 20 2011, 12:52 AM']That's disappointing. If there is no difference in tone and they are still only a recommended 4 ohm minimum load then there's little point in upgrading.[/quote]

Sort of agree and disagree, Chris. There must be extra headroom there with the extra power, the compressor is now much easier to access and adjust on the fly, and the tweetertone is a worthy addition, so I'm sure for some it's worth upgrading. Indeed, the fact that it is, tone-wise, the same as the 450 is comforting, give the overall positive response the 450 has received - it's a known quantity.

I imagine TC are aiming not necessarily at the upgrade market but to address the issues from those that didn't buy the RH450 in the first place. As I said, if you are a happy RH450 owner then this isn't IMO going to blow your socks off, but if you were a potential first time buyer of an RH with no financial constraints then it's well worth considering.

Steve

[chris_b]

[quote name='Muppet' post='1205516' date='Apr 20 2011, 09:07 AM']....I'm sure for some it's worth upgrading. Indeed, the fact that it is, tone-wise, the same as the 450 is comforting....[/quote]
I've posted this before, but the tone from solid state power amps gets better the bigger they get. The tone of the Thunderfunk 750 sounds better than the 550 and the only difference is the larger power amp.

In the Hi Fi world (Cyrus/Arcam etc) you can buy bigger "bolt on" power amps to improve the tone of your system. I was hoping a larger digital power amp worked in the same way, but it sounds like it's just louder!

Anyway, thanks for the review.

[Muppet]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1205629' date='Apr 20 2011, 11:08 AM']I've posted this before, but the tone from solid state power amps gets better the bigger they get. The tone of the Thunderfunk 750 sounds better than the 550 and the only difference is the larger power amp.

In the Hi Fi world (Cyrus/Arcam etc) you can buy bigger "bolt on" power amps to improve the tone of your system. I was hoping a larger digital power amp worked in the same way, but it sounds like it's just louder!

Anyway, thanks for the review.[/quote]

I'm only going on the volumes I've managed to reach thus far. Given that the 450 already shakes the house to bits at relatively low volumes I'm not really able to push the 750 just yet. I'll have a better idea after I've gigged it!

[alexclaber]

I've said this before and I'll say it again! With cutting edge speaker cabs this power is a joy, allowing you to get equal tone and volume to a large rig with one half the size, or allowing you to get deeper lows without having to use bigger cabs.

The reason higher power amps often sound bigger and deeper than lower power amps is that the lower power amps run out of power more often, and it's the lower frequency content of the notes that eat power and thus are restricted when you run out of power.

I don't believe any bass amps out there are under-specced with regards to power output. However some meet more stringent specs than others. The anecdotal evidence regarding all the lightweight high power amps suggests that whichever one you think is loudest is the one whose full power compression/limiting best suits the dynamic feel you like. It's just like how some people think the SVT sounds and feels amazing whilst others think it sounds compressed and midrangey when you're cranking.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1205752' date='Apr 20 2011, 12:58 PM']I don't believe any bass amps out there are under-specced with regards to power output. However some meet more stringent specs than others. [b]The anecdotal evidence regarding all the lightweight high power amps suggests that whichever one you think is loudest is the one whose full power compression/limiting best suits the dynamic feel you like.[/b] It's just like how some people think the SVT sounds and feels amazing whilst others think it sounds compressed and midrangey when you're cranking.[/quote]

This.

[charic]

On another note I think the 450 still wins on looks

[Musicman20]

Hmm, I personally like the slick black. The 450 colour is an odd one, not quite sure what colour it is!

[Prime_BASS]

What exactly is tweetertone?

And how does it sound flat?
I'm used to the warmness and tube pre dynamics I get with the MB LMtube, I'm just thirsty for more power and less weight.

[Muppet]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1205936' date='Apr 20 2011, 03:12 PM']This.[/quote]

Excuse my ignorance, but what does 'This' mean?

cheers

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Muppet' post='1206230' date='Apr 20 2011, 06:38 PM']Excuse my ignorance, but what does 'This' mean?

cheers[/quote]
It means he agrees with the quote especially the bold area

[Muppet]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1206240' date='Apr 20 2011, 06:41 PM']It means he agrees with the quote especially the bold area [/quote]

Doh, ok, cheers. I thought there was something missing after it.

[Muppet]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1206081' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:48 PM']What exactly is tweetertone?

And how does it sound flat?
I'm used to the warmness and tube pre dynamics I get with the MB LMtube, I'm just thirsty for more power and less weight.[/quote]

TweeterTone is a high frequency emulator designed to replicate the horn attenuation control on the back of some cabs, as far as I'm aware.

I've yet to work out whether 'flat' is the halfway position i.e. off, or whether off is fully anti clckwise as you'd expect from a horn attenuator! I suspect the former is the case as it seems to have no effect on the sound in the halfway position, when compared to the RH450.

cheers

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1206081' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:48 PM']What exactly is tweetertone?

And how does it sound flat?
I'm used to the warmness and tube pre dynamics I get with the MB LMtube, I'm just thirsty for more power and less weight.[/quote]

The tubetone on this is VERY impressive considering there are no tubes. I dont know how they did it, but they are masters of pedals etc, so there we go. It will sound bigger, fuller, more tubey and dirtier (if you want it to) cf to the LMTube.

I used to use the RH450 flat, but before owning a Markbass I never did this.

The tweetertone opens up the high end on the amp. A few said they found the RH450 too dark and vintage sounding, so with this, you can have that AND modern slap/treble crisp.

[Muppet]

Did you get your new pair today?

[Musicman20]

Yep, currently busy sorting a Tesco order so havent had time to sort them. From first impressions of just quickly opening the Streamliner, it looks VERY cool. No doubt the RH will be awesome.