stingrayPete1977 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1194400' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:03 AM']if person A has a bass that they won't sell for less than £500, then it's worth £500. If person B wants to buy it for £600, then it's worth £600. If someone wouldn't sell it to Tim for £1000000, then it's worth over that.[/quote] Unsubscribed Im meant to be working anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1194400' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:03 AM']...Ok, so what your saying is that a bass isn't worth what someone's willing to pay for it, it's worth a pre-defined price.[/quote] Nope. I'm saying that that is a tired old adage... usually applied to a situation when someone is seen to be over charging. It would be foolish to say that the market value is "a pre-defined price" accurate down to a cent. The market value on a bass fluctuates and is in a range. A cheap bass could be valued in a range of £50 while an expensive bass' market value range could be over a few thousand. Come in under that range and it's a bargain, go over it and it wasn't a good deal. Simple as. [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1194400' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:03 AM']I'm not saying it's worth the price of last time it was sold, I'm saying it's worth up to the money that someone (anyone) would be willing to part with it for. Regardless of model, if person A has a bass that they won't sell for less than £500, then it's worth £500. If person B wants to buy it for £600, then it's worth £600. If someone wouldn't sell it to Tim for £1000000, then it's worth over that.[/quote] That's just bonkers man. [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1194400' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:03 AM']I think we're just arguing over the difference between market value and [b]one person's opinion of it's value[/b], but I have said that I'm not talking about market value as that is an average price that doesn't take into account sentimentality.[/quote] fixed... although if you're not talking about it, I can't see how we can be arguing about it. [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1194400' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:03 AM']Remember, how someone values a bass is totally individual to the person, whether buying or selling. What they base that value on, whether it's because it was their first steady bass or they're prepared to pay a bit more for one with a maple freboard is totally individual.[/quote] It doesn't necessarily make it relevant to what everyone else is willing to pay for it though does it, therefore the standard use of the the phrase "it's value" does not apply. Edited April 10, 2011 by Ou7shined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy67 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) Well we could take retails for examples and reference: Bass sold in shop for £1000 (some Fender bass in this price range) now here's the rub and I'll probably get told off for this again... Mark up on mainstream musical equipment is in the region of 40% in some cases, I have been reliably told, is at most 53%. So, suddenly, a £1000 instrument is in reality worth £570 - £600 but the mark-up makes it worth more but ... is this the case, is the bass worth this mount due to the mark-up? What you have to remember is that shops buy back is generally 33% on new but will give a little more when buying pricier stuff. You cannot haggle them with their buy back price because they hit you with the "It's not worth it to us because we can buy it in for almost the same price!" So why bloody well put such a mark-up on the stuff?? Because it holds no sentimental value to the shop...it's for sale at rrp/mrp and that's it! Sorry for letting the cat out the bag my retail friends...However, in this environment of no cash, you could reduce the mark-up significantly enabling folk to buy so you don't go out of business. When I think of quality, value and realism, I instantly think of Jon Shuker. He has got the ideal balance of value and worth. Edited April 10, 2011 by andy67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='andy67' post='1194450' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:45 AM']When I think of quality, value and realism, I instantly think of Jon Shuker. He has got the ideal balance of value and worth.[/quote] I agree his prices are very fair but does he have a high street shop to pay business rates on etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1194497' date='Apr 10 2011, 12:30 PM']I agree his prices are very fair but does he have a high street shop to pay business rates on etc?[/quote] +1 overheads = necessary markup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voxpop Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='andy67' post='1194450' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:45 AM']Well we could take retails for examples and reference: Sorry for letting the cat out the bag my retail friends...However, in this environment of no cash, you could reduce the mark-up significantly enabling folk to buy so you don't go out of business. When I think of quality, value and realism, I instantly think of Jon Shuker. He has got the ideal balance of value and worth.[/quote] I work in the hifi industry a d without the Mark up we would have no staff or shop or dare I say make a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='voxpop' post='1194517' date='Apr 10 2011, 12:47 PM']I work in the hifi industry a d without the Mark up we would have no staff or shop or dare I say make a profit.[/quote] Without a mark-up, every retailer would go bust. 40-50% doesn't seem unreasonable to me for an small-medium bricks and mortar establishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy67 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='voxpop' post='1194517' date='Apr 10 2011, 12:47 PM']I work in the hifi industry a d without the Mark up we would have no staff or shop or dare I say make a profit.[/quote] I love the HiFi industry!! I still have my ioriginal Cyrus 2 from 1989, true value and was worth every penny of the £300 I spent back then! I also own, Systemdek 11 with Moth arm (RB250 derivative) and AT-F5 moving coil cartridge: Wharfedale 505.2 walnut speakers, 3 x Nad CD players C520, C521bee, C515bee; Nad C315bee amp, another Cyrus mk6, 2x Monitor Audio Bronze B1 speakers and a set of Castle Severn speakers. I love HiFi, all if it is so worth it and valuable to me however, if I was selling then... I would have to be realistic about it! I still miss my Linn Sondek... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='andy67' post='1194450' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:45 AM']Bass sold in shop for £1000 (some Fender bass in this price range) now here's the rub and I'll probably get told off for this again... Mark up on mainstream musical equipment is in the region of 40% in some cases, I have been reliably told, is at most 53%. So, suddenly, a £1000 instrument is in reality worth £570 - £600 but the mark-up makes it worth more but ... is this the case, is the bass worth this mount due to the mark-up?[/quote] It's irrelevant. You could extend the same argument to the manufacturer. So, you say the £1000 shop bass is "in reality" only "worth" £570, but what about the manufacturer's markup? By this reasoning the bass might only be worth, say £250 "in reality". It's a futile process trying to put a formulaic price on used items, unless you control the market (which manufacturers can do but sellers of used items cannot). In fact, the varying opinions of this thread only go to prove it. You can believe something is worth whatever you want, you can invent all manner of reasons or formulae to support your view, but if you can't persuade someone else to pay the price then you'll never be able to realise that value in hard cash. You're just fooling yourself. It's like buying a new car. The buyer thinks they've just bought a £30k car but the reality is that it's suddenly worth a great deal less, simply because (unless it's particularly collectable) there's no one in the world that will buy that car for anywhere near £30k. There's no scientific rationale for this, it's just the way a free market works. Edited April 10, 2011 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy67 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1194558' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:25 PM']It's irrelevant. You could extend the same argument to the manufacturer. So, you say the £1000 shop bass is "in reality" only "worth" £570, but what about the manufacturer's markup? By this reasoning the bass might only be worth, say £250 "in reality". It's a futile process trying to put a formulaic price on used items, unless you control the market (which manufacturers can do but sellers of used items cannot). In fact, the varying opinions of this thread only go to prove it. Y[i][b]ou can believe something is worth whatever you want, you can invent all manner of reasons or formulae to support your view, but if you can't persuade someone else to pay the price then you'll never be able to realise that value in hard cash.[/b][/i] You're just fooling yourself. It's like buying a new car. The buyer thinks they've just bought a £30k car but the reality is that it's suddenly worth a great deal less, simply because (unless it's particularly collectable) there's no one in the world that will buy that car for anywhere near £30k. There's no scientific rationale for this, it's just the way a free market works.[/quote] Not quite sure of your argument or what your point is but the bit I've highlighted in bold/italics is more or less what I've said throughout! Some are trying to establish price on sentimentality and individual worth however, I do not see these as a 'formula' to establish a price. The used market place is more of a reference but again the buyer will only pay hard cash if they feel it is a fair price. And, this can be based on many of the market place scenarios. Again, I'll state that most on here know the used market place and know how and why used items are priced the way they are. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='andy67' post='1194640' date='Apr 10 2011, 02:37 PM']Not quite sure of your argument or what your point is but the bit I've highlighted in bold/italics is more or less what I've said throughout! [b]Some are trying to establish price on sentimentality and individual worth however, I do not see these as a 'formula' to establish a price. The used market place is more of a reference but again the buyer will only pay hard cash if they feel it is a fair price. And, this can be based on many of the market place scenarios. Again, I'll state that most on here know the used market place and know how and why used items are priced the way they are.[/b] andy[/quote] Here here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Squabbling, bickering, it never used to be like this.....................................(yes it did) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='martthebass' post='1194784' date='Apr 10 2011, 05:13 PM']Squabbling, bickering, it never used to be like this.....................................(yes it did)[/quote] Hey I dont know what your laughing at I have just decided your 30th LE is worth £300 I will pay you £400 for it though as I have a sentimental connection to all Rays so in fairness your £100 up on the deal I will pay cash on collection in about 2 hours, Alright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1194804' date='Apr 10 2011, 05:31 PM']Hey I dont know what your laughing at I have just decided your 30th LE is worth £300 I will pay you £400 for it though as I have a sentimental connection to all Rays so in fairness your £100 up on the deal I will pay cash on collection in about 2 hours, Alright? [/quote] Yeah but that Sue Ryder is worth £......... Are you going to get that too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Blademan_98' post='1194824' date='Apr 10 2011, 05:49 PM']Yeah but that Sue Ryder is worth £......... Are you going to get that too? [/quote] Which one d'yer think I used at the 'Kebab and Calculator' public beer emporium last night? (a congenial watering hole where they sweep up the eyeballs at the end of the night). Pete, you reaaaaaally don't want a cheap pre-eb copy now do yer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 The Sue Ryders have gone up 50% though some clown wanted £90 for the last one on here! (Just joking Rich I know you had put some strings on it and stuff ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='martthebass' post='1194836' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:01 PM']Which one d'yer think I used at the 'Kebab and Calculator' public beer emporium last night? (a congenial watering hole where they sweep up the eyeballs at the end of the night). Pete, you reaaaaaally don't want a cheap pre-eb copy now do yer![/quote] For £400 who wouldnt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1194839' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:02 PM']For £400 who wouldnt![/quote] Put a '1' in front of it and it'd go some way towards my 'year of birth' bass.............unfortunately Leo didn't make Rays back in the 60s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Just like to add that I feel the majority here are trustworthy and reliable. I've had some shocking experiences with eBay - faulty items, fakes etc but I've sold a bass and cab and bought a head, a mixer, an S1 switch + plate and a bass synth here and been very happy with them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='martthebass' post='1194853' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:05 PM']Put a '1' in front of it and it'd go some way towards my 'year of birth' bass.......[/quote] I have very fond memories as a kid of curly-wurlys and a copies of 2000AD therefore to me they are next to priceless, I'll give you one of each [b]plus[/b] I'll bung in a roll of caps to sweeten the deal. You win out big time - a bunch of priceless item vs a mere bass. That's way better than Pete's cheeky offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1194881' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:30 PM']I have very fond memories as a kid of curly-wurlys and a copies of 2000AD therefore to me they are next to priceless, I'll give you one of each [b]plus[/b] I'll bung in a roll of caps to sweeten the deal. You win out big time - a bunch of priceless item vs a mere bass. That's way better than Pete's cheeky offer.[/quote] Well, if you happened to have the one edition of 2000AD that someone out there might need to complete their collection, it might well be worth the bass of your choice to them . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1194938' date='Apr 10 2011, 07:14 PM']Well, if you happened to have the one edition of 2000AD that someone out there might need to complete their collection, it might well be worth the bass of your choice to them . . . .[/quote] Touché But they're all priceless.... as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1194881' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:30 PM']I have very fond memories as a kid of curly-wurlys and a copies of 2000AD therefore to me they are next to priceless, I'll give you one of each [b]plus[/b] I'll bung in a roll of caps to sweeten the deal. You win out big time - a bunch of priceless item vs a mere bass. That's way better than Pete's cheeky offer.[/quote] Loved early 2000AD, especially Slaine and Strontium Dog (I know, that was a bit of an import). Think my 200 issues or so went to a charity shop..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='dougie' post='1192465' date='Apr 8 2011, 12:42 AM']IMO,if i ask £1k for a pair of my skidmarked y fronts thats my prerogative,wether anyone wants to pay that amount is theirs....isnt that the way selling/buying has always worked?,last thing i`d imagine is any mods/admins wanting to even get involved in anyones debates regarding cash sales.[/quote] MB1. ...Or the going price for skidmarked Y fronts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='martthebass' post='1194853' date='Apr 10 2011, 05:05 PM']Put a '1' in front of it and it'd go some way towards my 'year of birth' bass.............unfortunately Leo didn't make Rays back in the 60s [/quote] He did. He just called it a Precision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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