Aguilar GS112 and DB 112

[essexbasscat]

Hi all and happy new year

Having seen another thread about Aguilar cabs, I thought I'd open a new thread rather than hijack the other one. Like many others, I'm a fan of my two GS1x12's. They've always delivered the solid bottom end that I like in my sound when coupled to a Peavey MkIV head, a nice vintage sound that suits my 60's band a treat, with enough versatility to add some highs when needed for more up to date numbers.

However, I did find them a bit lacking when coupled with a Markbass Sa450 head. The mids are a bit shy on the GS's, which is where a lot of the Sa450 tone shaping seems to live. Folk on other threads have said that the DB's expose more of the mid frequencies, while still keeping the integrity of the lower frequencies.

I've noticed others complimenting the DB112 and DB112NT combination. Can anyone shed any light on this particular setup and what it offers compared to 2 x DB112 ? Is one pair more friendly to a vintage type sound than another ? does the DB112 and DB112 NT allow more exposure for the tones from the more modern class D amps ?

Thank you for all your replies BC

T

[JTUK]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1075258' date='Jan 2 2011, 01:16 PM']Hi all and happy new year

Having seen another thread about Aguilar cabs, I thought I'd open a new thread rather than hijack the other one. Like many others, I'm a fan of my two GS1x12's. They've always delivered the solid bottom end that I like in my sound when coupled to a Peavey MkIV head, a nice vintage sound that suits my 60's band a treat, with enough versatility to add some highs when needed for more up to date numbers.

However, I did find them a bit lacking when coupled with a Markbass Sa450 head. The mids are a bit shy on the GS's, which is where a lot of the Sa450 tone shaping seems to live. Folk on other threads have said that the DB's expose more of the mid frequencies, while still keeping the integrity of the lower frequencies.

I've noticed others complimenting the DB112 and DB112NT combination. Can anyone shed any light on this particular setup and what it offers compared to 2 x DB112 ? Is one pair more friendly to a vintage type sound than another ? does the DB112 and DB112 NT allow more exposure for the tones from the more modern class D amps ?

Thank you for all your replies BC

T[/quote]

Difficult to say as you hear what you hear and everyones else's take is...????
But this is how I use my GS112's which is a great soound atm, for me.

The cabs are..as you say, scooped.. and I find the horn useful to get the top end to come out to play. I have both horns on around 40%, IIRC. You can EQ a decent middley sound with thump and the horns help this speak a little better for what I want. There is no way a sound can hide and I think the scoop on this cab is well thought out and configured. I have, at times, hankered after a tad more..or wahtever, but with new strings and my active bass, this cab, when paired wants for nothing as far as I am concerned.
Without the horn you would still have a very punchy cab, but not the articulation and projection in the sound I seek.
The DB series just looks waaay cooler in black,

I may well indulge myelf with the DB12 series as well, but I feel their use will come into play with an older set of strings and more vintagey vibey sound..but I still wouldn't want one without a horn.
I find the horn on the GS to be spikey but smoother, than say, the SWR Fostex...

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1075258' date='Jan 2 2011, 01:16 PM']Hi all and happy new year

Having seen another thread about Aguilar cabs, I thought I'd open a new thread rather than hijack the other one. Like many others, I'm a fan of my two GS1x12's. They've always delivered the solid bottom end that I like in my sound when coupled to a Peavey MkIV head, a nice vintage sound that suits my 60's band a treat, with enough versatility to add some highs when needed for more up to date numbers.

However, I did find them a bit lacking when coupled with a Markbass Sa450 head. The mids are a bit shy on the GS's, which is where a lot of the Sa450 tone shaping seems to live. Folk on other threads have said that the DB's expose more of the mid frequencies, while still keeping the integrity of the lower frequencies.

I've noticed others complimenting the DB112 and DB112NT combination. Can anyone shed any light on this particular setup and what it offers compared to 2 x DB112 ? Is one pair more friendly to a vintage type sound than another ? does the DB112 and DB112 NT allow more exposure for the tones from the more modern class D amps ?

Thank you for all your replies BC

T[/quote]


Its the SA450 with GS112 set up I was looking at but I'm now a bit concerned that it won't have the low-mid frequency punch that I'm looking for.
It appears that as always individual taste will determine whether the GS or DB has the mid frequency punch.
Some say the GS has a mid scoop yet others say not.
Between this post and the others recently posted I'm getting a little lost with the Aguilar kit.
I think a trial run is in order before buying as this debate could go on indefinately.

Appreciate all the comments as it does help - I guess - LOL !!!!!

Cheers
Dave :

[essexbasscat]

THanks JTUK, I agree with you that the GS does allow mids to be expressed. I can dial them in from my Peavey MKIV head (more typical of an Ampeg head I guess) and adjust frequencies and prominance to suit.
Like you JTUK, I have my horns somewhere around 40% - 50%. That's about as far as I like to push them, as I want to avoid brittle highs.

Saying that the GS's can express mids when asked to while claiming that they don't allow the tone shaping of the mids to be expressed on the Sa450 sounds odd doesn't it ? Yet this seems to be the case in my experience. I wonder, is it more the case that the GS's react slightly differently to the output of class D amps compared to the more vintage tone generators such as Ampeg, the Peavey MKIV and apparently, the Aguilar AG500 ? it does seem odd, but it's one way I can account for the difference I've found.

I heard my bass through the Sa450 connected to an EBS Neo 2 x 12 cab when I collected the Sa450. The tonal shaping of the Sa450 through the EBS Neo was very effective, with only small adjustments being very apparent. The GS's just don't do that at all.

All that said, I love the sound of my GS112's with the Peavey MKIV or an Ampeg B2RE head, a very nice versatile classic sound.

I do wonder if the DB's make the difference, also what difference the NT cab makes.

Thanks for your replies folks

T

[JTUK]

I have heard that MB and Ag cabs go well...but mostly I recall the MB amps being LMll/lll.

I don't know the Sa450 but I think it is true than certain amps take to cabs and others just don't from a broad perspective. It certainly isn't gospel though as that taste thing kicks in.

I use the GS cabs to run quite a thin top string..for very fast attack.. so the mid hole at whatever freq helps here, IMV.
If I ran a DB with a thicker mid at some point...it would take the attack out of the strings that I want..by making it thicker..??

As with basses, I just don't see there is anyway round hearing the kit in context wth what you do..and most of us lack that luxury, and getting a whole stack of kit for a day or more to run though the many many permutations...not to mention compromises of weight and carry should you want them in the equation.

Threads like this are very useful..upto a point but can't make the decision, they can only help advise of the options available coupled with someone's considered opinion and that may be very benefical or useless, ...I am not knocking them at all.they are better than the technical spec blah.. but we all have our goals and ideas and one mans meat is another mans poison.

I guess what I am saying is...that unless someone knows what I want very well, I am just going to have to put the foot-slogging in and play them. Some people do this on here by GASing so go through kit at a rate of knots but I can see the point if they aren't lossing too much money.
When all is said and done and you have travelled up and down a few times over..you are probably running costs anyway so you might as well weigh that against buying and selling on and losing a few quid, possibly..

People say Markbass are like SWR amps of old..which I have..I am not so sure myself. The SM400, which I consider a classic..has very powerful EQ should you want to abuse it, and you really don't ...but I try and get the amp as flat as poss and do everything on the pre....it is simpler that way.

I never have to alter much on my amp but some combinations stand a better chance of working than others. That said..I never have a bad sound with this set-up, and it is all degrees of very good, IMO. otherwise I wouldn't use it.

As much as I like the cabs..I am sure if I changed one component, I might have to change more...or I might stand a change of more consistancy..but since my rooms are so variable, I can't get over-anal about that... and that is the GAS...should I, shouldn't I or what the hell..!!! its only money..!!

Oops..off on one there...

[essexbasscat]

Hmmm... you could well be right about there being no subsitute for just going and A/B'ing it yourself or just spending the money. But I do value the opinions of BC members, there always seems to be someone out there that has looked at very similar issues.

On that note, does anyone have any ideas around;

1. Are Aguilar cabs more suited to producing the more rounded vintage type sounds than the EBS Neo cabs ? I suspect this is the case, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others that have already walked this path. There's got to be a few out there.

2. What circumstances prevail to encourage people to choose the DB cabs instead of the GS cabs ?

3. What advantages (other than weight) does the DB112 / DB112 NT combo give compared to 2 x DB112 ?


Thanks again for all you thoughts

Cheers

T

[Musicman20]

I chose the DB series purely because I tested a pair of DB112s at the Bass Merchant and loved the tone.

GS - Huge bottom end, slightly mid shy (not in a bad sense) and ability to have more vintage or crisp highs. Nice handles and carpet covered.

DB - Still a large bottom end, but more mid punchy so the mids seems to kick out, (the tone is....with a strange description, 'chewy' thick and warm) and nice sweet highs. I only have the tweeter on about 1/3, or off. Not sure how the high end compares to the GS. Strap handles and very pretty styling.

Both of the ranges seem to just have lots of articulation. Personally, after testing a lot of high end cabs, Id put the Aguilar cabs up with the top manufacturers.

Both are great. For me, I found I would always end up using two 12s, so I went for the DB212 as it has large handles, and removable casters built in.

I still often think about picking up 1 DB112 for small gigs, but I know its just GAS speaking.

They have the new SL112, VERY lightweight 112s. Check www.aguilaramp.com

Edited January 3, 2011 by Musicman20

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1076282' date='Jan 3 2011, 01:56 PM']I chose the DB series purely because I tested a pair of DB112s at the Bass Merchant and loved the tone.

GS - Huge bottom end, slightly mid shy (not in a bad sense) and ability to have more vintage or crisp highs. Nice handles and carpet covered.

DB - Still a large bottom end, but more mid punchy so the mids seems to kick out, (the tone is....with a strange description, 'chewy' thick and warm) and nice sweet highs. I only have the tweeter on about 1/3, or off. Not sure how the high end compares to the GS. Strap handles and very pretty styling.

Both of the ranges seem to just have lots of articulation. Personally, after testing a lot of high end cabs, Id put the Aguilar cabs up with the top manufacturers.

Both are great. For me, I found I would always end up using two 12s, so I went for the DB212 as it has large handles, and removable casters built in.

I still often think about picking up 1 DB112 for small gigs, but I know its just GAS speaking.

They have the new SL112, VERY lightweight 112s. Check www.aguilaramp.com

[/quote]
Good description of sound difference between the GS & DB.
Helps me decide which to go for although I will take the advice from all and TRY before i BUY.
Sounds like the DB is more what I'm looking for.

Cheers
Dave

[Legion]

I've owned a pair of GS112's and a pair of DB112's. Then I traded the DB's for some GS's again Then I sold them on recently.

I'd certainly agree that the GS range is a little scooped but I actually really liked the tone (I'm insanely reconsidering getting a pair once more). I felt that the DB range does have a little edge over the GS in terms of tone as they are a bit more present and punchy but...and there's always a but:

The DB's are a little heavier and in that form factor I was finding them close to being too heavy for my liking. My main problem with them was the vulnerability factor as they look so lovely but were so much less durable than the GS's. I could chuck the GS cabs around as much as I liked and not have to worry, but the day my DB cabs got the tolex ripped on top by some drunk well meaning bandmates I decided they were not the right thing for me. Especially with that nice cloth grill just waiting to have a cymbal stand rammed through it or some other gigging/loading/unloading in stupid tight spaces disaster scenario.

Personally, seeing the price you can pick up a pair of used GS112's for they would get my vote every time based on a nice smooth sound, reasonable weight and serious durability.

[essexbasscat]

I'm seriously considering keeping the Gs's regardless, as they do that vintage sound so well for such a small package. There may be no substitute though for an EBS Neo can to let the Sa450 breath properly.

[Musicman20]

Keep the GS cabs and get a DB212 (4 Ohm). That would be a VERY nice setup of cabs, with lots of flexibility and actually gives you two different sounds.

Plus, whats great about the DB212 is you can load everything on top, then roll it into the gig. You only need one cover as well.

It might be a little heavy at 69lbs, but some cab makers charge a lot more for neo versions that are only a small amount lighter. Eg, some of the new neo cabs are about 60lbs. 9lbs isnt worth it IMO. If we were talking 20lbs, thats different.

I agree with Legion, the covering can be a little fragile. Covers are a MUST on the DBs, and if you want the more durable tolex, go for black or white (although white is going to get VERY dirty) as that tolex is 'nubby' and a little thicker.

[Musicman20]

PS see my DB212 here:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=56307&st=0&start=0"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...t=0&start=0[/url]

Drool.

[Rumple]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1076246' date='Jan 3 2011, 01:16 PM']1. Are Aguilar cabs more suited to producing the more rounded vintage type sounds than the EBS Neo cabs ? I suspect this is the case, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others that have already walked this path. There's got to be a few out there.[/quote]

I had an EBS Neo 212 for quite a while it was a great cab but I found it quite agressive with a very modern sound with lots on mids, I now have a pair of GS112NT's and they have as you say a more rounded vintage sound, I love 'em. I use a LM11 but would love to try them with a Aggie amp one day.



R.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1076463' date='Jan 3 2011, 04:49 PM']PS see my DB212 here:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=56307&st=0&start=0"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...t=0&start=0[/url]

Drool.[/quote]

That pic alone is making me want the DB112's... and I am thinking I'll run both sets of cabs to see which I want to setttle on...but... am loving the old skool sound I have atm...and it bites as well so cuts through anything.

I don't get people who try to force their way through a mix...with boosting this and that and maybve ending up witht sound you don't like but it does the job..???...sometimes you have to cut and slash.

My J5 cuts through like a MM..which is very very good at this type of situation, but with a way more sophiscated and cultured sound, IMV. subjectively speaking, of course, but the gtrs I play love this approach, and I am loving the sound that I always wanted to hear, to boot.

[warwickhunt]

[b]1. Are Aguilar cabs more suited to producing the more rounded vintage type sounds than the EBS Neo cabs ? I suspect this is the case, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others that have already walked this path. There's got to be a few out there. [/b]

I'm ready to get shot down on this but I would say YES! I've owned the EBS Neo 2x12 and I've owned various other Neo cabs inc. 2x10, 1x15 and 6x10 and regardless of the fact they were different manufacturers, driver sizes and cab designs the Neo driver equipped cabs had an inherent tone that was more prominent, Hi-Fi, mid-biased. Now I know that it has been said time and again that the driver magnet material (Neo) has no effect whatsoever on the tone, well in that case I have to say that the cab designs for all these Neo cabs was such that the tone on all of them was different to any ceramic magnet driver cab that I tried. At the end of the day I bought and sold a multitude of very good Neo cabs not because they were rubbish but the tone wasn't what I wanted and as soon as I ran through the DB12's I knew that was the sound I was after; fuller and fatter... maybe the diet that Neo's go on makes them thinner in tone!

[b]2. What circumstances prevail to encourage people to choose the DB cabs instead of the GS cabs ?[/b]

The DBs were available used when I was looking! I've tried the DBs and the GSs side by side and they have a different sound, one not better than the other just different and my preference was for the DB

[b]3. What advantages (other than weight) does the DB112 / DB112 NT combo give compared to 2 x DB112 ?[/b]

Is your question a spelling error/typo? Do you mean x2 DB12 versus x1 DB212 Modular set up? If so I've never tried a 2x12 against the pair of 1x12 but if the 2x12 was a 4 ohm cab then I've no reason to think it wouldn't be as good/better than the pair of 1x12. I will add the caveat that a pair of DB112's are greater than the sum of the parts; pair up a couple of DB or GS 1x12s and they sound so much 'more' than just two cabs added together.

I've started stacking my DB12 on their edge (maybe pics to follow) and putting foam between so that you can get the drivers up higher (and the horn if you have a horn equipped cab), I'd say that is one benefit over a single 2x12 standing on the floor much lower than ear height!

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1076587' date='Jan 3 2011, 06:13 PM'][b]1. Are Aguilar cabs more suited to producing the more rounded vintage type sounds than the EBS Neo cabs ? I suspect this is the case, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others that have already walked this path. There's got to be a few out there. [/b]

I'm ready to get shot down on this but I would say YES! I've owned the EBS Neo 2x12 and I've owned various other Neo cabs inc. 2x10, 1x15 and 6x10 and regardless of the fact they were different manufacturers, driver sizes and cab designs the Neo driver equipped cabs had an inherent tone that was more prominent, Hi-Fi, mid-biased. Now I know that it has been said time and again that the driver magnet material (Neo) has no effect whatsoever on the tone, well in that case I have to say that the cab designs for all these Neo cabs was such that the tone on all of them was different to any ceramic magnet driver cab that I tried. At the end of the day I bought and sold a multitude of very good Neo cabs not because they were rubbish but the tone wasn't what I wanted and as soon as I ran through the DB12's I knew that was the sound I was after; fuller and fatter... maybe the diet that Neo's go on makes them thinner in tone!

[b]2. What circumstances prevail to encourage people to choose the DB cabs instead of the GS cabs ?[/b]

The DBs were available used when I was looking! I've tried the DBs and the GSs side by side and they have a different sound, one not better than the other just different and my preference was for the DB

[b]3. What advantages (other than weight) does the DB112 / DB112 NT combo give compared to 2 x DB112 ?[/b]

Is your question a spelling error/typo? Do you mean x2 DB12 versus x1 DB212 Modular set up? If so I've never tried a 2x12 against the pair of 1x12 but if the 2x12 was a 4 ohm cab then I've no reason to think it wouldn't be as good/better than the pair of 1x12. I will add the caveat that a pair of DB112's are greater than the sum of the parts; pair up a couple of DB or GS 1x12s and they sound so much 'more' than just two cabs added together.

I've started stacking my DB12 on their edge (maybe pics to follow) and putting foam between so that you can get the drivers up higher (and the horn if you have a horn equipped cab), I'd say that is one benefit over a single 2x12 standing on the floor much lower than ear height![/quote]


Thanks Warwickhunt, I've noticed you've praised the DB's in the past. They do appear to be firm favourites with some BC'ers.

It seems your findings are similar to mine, that maybe the more popular neo cabs are tailored for the Hi-Fi, more mid prominant end of amplification. While the Sa450 and LM11 and LM111 have been described as warm sounding, their sound does seem to be more Hi-Fi in nature, which would be complimented by the more modern neo cabs.

I also agree the Aguilar cabs are fuller sounding than the neo cabs. I wouldn't readily think of GS or DB's as Hi-fi cabs.

It wasn't a typo - I did mean a pair of DB112's, but one of them being an NT neo model. I just wondered if the DB112 NT offered more of the Hi-Fi sound than a standard DB 112 cab. If that is the case, the straight/neo combination could be an interesting.

I do remember someone down this way had the DB 112 /DB112NT combination and a few others said it worked quite well. Wonder if they are still around ?

Thanks for your answer WH and everyone else too. Much appreciated

Don't know how those SL112's sound, but they do look damn nice !

Edited January 4, 2011 by essexbasscat

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1077662' date='Jan 4 2011, 06:49 PM']It wasn't a typo - I did mean a pair of DB112's, but one of them being an NT neo model. I just wondered if the DB112 NT offered more of the Hi-Fi sound than a standard DB 112 cab. If that is the case, the straight/neo combination could be an interesting.

I do remember someone down this way had the DB 112 /DB112NT combination and a few others said it worked quite well. Wonder if they are still around ?[/quote]

I think (and historically it has been known for me to be wrong) that NT simply stands for [b]N[/b]o [b]T[/b]weeter!

I have a DB12 and a DB12NT and there is no discernible difference in weight but the NT is sans tweeter.

<Hang on a minute>

Quick check on the Aguilar seems to confirm this; I don't think you can get a Neo equipped DB cab.

[JTUK]

As far as I know...Aguilar doesn't do NEO ..unless you count the SL range coming out soon.

It is questionable if you need one as the 1x12"'s are 42lbs..but your back will make that call.

Not sure about the hi fi tag as well. I rate the GS cab as better sounding all round that recent--ish SWR cabs, and by that I mean the Goliaths and not the workingmans range. I think most cab makers bundle a hi-fi tag with the ability of the cab to go to 12khz plus...which will mean it has a horn, and not so much the actual sound of the cab.

[essexbasscat]

Doh ! First public error of the New Year Plenty more where that came from too ! Never wanted to be perfect anyway.

Think a trip to the Aguilar site is overdue, then the nearest dealer to hear what it's all about

Cheers Guys

T

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Well, the last combo I had(Eden Nemesis nc-250) was the best I had.I did have a Peavey head/cab
back 9in the 90's (too big but sound was ok). Anyway, I'm now the proud owner of AggieAG 500 SC and DB112 N T cab.
When the drummer saw my setup (tweed combo /choc head) he laughed,and said it resembled something
from a 1950's coffee shop. He loved my Eden combo,and was a bit sceptical about my slightly more
poprtable setup.
Once we finished that rehearsal, he was amazed. So was I . Don't know what the GS series sounds like,
but the DB series looks and sounds the part .

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1077757' date='Jan 4 2011, 07:47 PM']Doh ! First public error of the New Year Plenty more where that came from too ! Never wanted to be perfect anyway.

Think a trip to the Aguilar site is overdue, then the nearest dealer to hear what it's all about

Cheers Guys

T[/quote]
sounds like a trip to BASSMERCHANT