Ampeg advise please

[grimbeaver]

Hi Fellow bass players,
I currently have 2 rigs that I use, an SWR 750x into a goliath 610 and I have the eden wt550 and have 3 cabs I can swap about with a 410xlt, 210xst and 210xlt. I still havent found what I am looking for in my sound though and am considering a move to Ampeg to get a bit more "attitude", so with the following in mind could you tell me what would be the best rig in your opinion.

I play rock and classic rock, I have blown 4x10s before with this band so probably need at least 6x10 or cabs to give me that level of volume. We often play without a sound engineer and use the backline as volume (when we have PA and engineer support its not a problem)

I play finger style and play quite hard and have an aggressive style and use an Overwater 4 string with an East pre amp so have huge tonal control on my guitar.

I dont like muffled blusey bass and like a bright "new strings" kind of sound. I dont go for effects but do have a sansamp in the box and an ebs compressor.

I like the idea of the CL series as its a simple plug and play with little to do but dont really know if the valve thing is worth the hasstle so was possibly thinking SVT 450H, if valves do make a huge difference I would go CL but as I like a bright sound possibly pro3 (the 4 looks great but I just wont use all the features and would get into a knot)

Cabs wise I thought I can write out HLF cabs as they are for 5 string/de tuned? please correct me if I am wrong so its 8x10 or 4x10 and a 1x15 or maybe get all 3 then I can chop about

If I go 410 & 1x15 I have the choice of a smaller rig for smaller gigs and easy transport as the 8x10 looks a monster to lug about.

I would be interested to have any genuine advice from Ampeg users please.

Kind Regards
Rob

[Musicman20]

Big ROCK sound?

There are so many more options you should check out before Ampeg IMO, but thats just me. Ampeg do make great products, and if its the Ampeg tone/style you really want, then go for it.

Is weight an issue? Is transport an issue?

Do you want a big beast of a cabinet?

If so, id suggest you check out:

Aguilar DB412, DB810, GS412.

Bergantino NV610, 412.

Genz Benz Uber 212 + 410.

Even though you might think they arent loud enough, check out the TC RS 210s and 212s....the TC RH450 can power 3 of their RS cabinets.

IF you want a super powerful 4x10, there are plenty of those about as well!

List what requirements you have and the tone you ideally like

[chris_b]

I don't play "rock", but I owned Ampeg 410, 210 and 115 cabs and played through an SVT3PRO but the sound of the cabs didn't work for me. I carried on using my Mesa Boogie 210 and 115 cabs. Maybe Boogie is the sound you're after?

I'd also try an Eden WT800 with your Eden cabs.

If you can blow a 410 cab then I'd get 2 410 cabs. Your WT500 will go to 2 ohm and I'm assuming your Eden cabs are 8 ohm; have you tried all of them together?

[grimbeaver]

I have tried a lot of kit and sure the likes of \bergantino, etc are all great options in fact I was looking at the genz benz shuttle 9 with the bergantino 4x10 cab but I felt it would be more akin to playing Santana than nirvanna if you know what I mean.

I want some growling attitude, my eden stuff and SWR give me wonderfull clear bright tones but its just not doing it for me and I felt going down TC or berg or GB will take me back to the same spot as I am in with eden and SWR.

Does that make sense?

[grimbeaver]

I have all 4 ohm eden cabs so can play 210xlt for small gigs, 210xst &210xlt medium gigs and 410 xlt with 210xst for big gigs and I run it at 2 ohm.

I have blown the 210xst once and the xlt twice through driving it too hard.

Again though if I was playing Jazz, nice clear blues, pop etc the eden stuff would be great but my main focus is with a rock band and I need some attitude, I also need to cut through a noisy busy drummer and a couple of marshall stacks

[Lozz196]

I`ve just bought an Ampeg SVT 410 HE, as my Marshall VBC 412 although a great cab, was a tad boomy with my Orange Terror. Not used it live yet, but when I bought the Terror, tried it with "The Fridge" - Ampeg SVT 810, which is apparently the same, albeit in one unit, as two SVT 410HEs. Great sound, much more middy-focused than my Marshall, tho still an impressive bottom-end, but much tighter, so maybe 2 of these may do what yr after.

[Musicman20]

Wow, thats a lot of cab problems youve had!

Ive been in hardcore punks bands with two guitarists with massive guitar rigs, and found a good 4x10 can be more than loud enough. We often played without the amps being mic'd or DI'd etc.

The TC RH450 is VERY good for a more rock n roll sound, as well as being a nice clean amp at the same time. Its almost like a modern version of an Ampeg, with lighter weight and a bucket load of useful features. That 450W is much louder than you'd think. It will bury most of the other micro amps on the market.

Honestly, I think if you need that much volume, either they need to turn down, or you need one big beast of a cabinet, and I personally would look at something that can take a thrashing and have no problems, which means, unfortunately, expensive. The Ampeg 810E will do it, but you can get cabinets that are smaller/more high end, but again its expense.

There is so much choice, you could be looking for months.

Another option is an Orange or Matamp setup. They are perfect for rock. Full tube amps, big heavy cabs, and seem to retain their value better than Ampeg. Another great thing is they are UK made.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Musicman20

[chris_b]

You're looking at more powerful rigs than I have ever needed!

In the FS section there's a Mesa Boogie 400+, a Boogie 1615 cab and (if it's still there) a Boogie 215 cab. I think you could knock down walls with that lot!!

If you really have to have the Ampeg sound then, in order to compete with your band, you could use the full SVT CL and 810 rig. Maybe add another 810 later?

The SVT7PRO is 1000 watts, there's a 200 watt Hiwatt valve head in the FS section and Matamp could make you a pretty powerful amp, but I haven't played any of these.

[grimbeaver]

I dont need 2 8x10s thats way over the top for what I need. I will play a pub as smallest gig and up to festivals for biggest, however the bigger gigs would have PA support so are not an issue, its the mid sized large pub/club size that bring me issues. I got the 2 x 2x10 edens thinking that would be enough and driving them both to max at 2ohms would be fine, but I have pushed them a few times and suffered the blown speakers because of it.
I tend not to use a compressor much and as I have an aggressive style it can cause problems when you are getting to the upper limits.

With a 6x10 I have enough

[JTUK]

If you are up against a loud..and he would have to be VERY loud, drummer and 2 marshall stacks, this is not a battle you can win, I suspect.

Not only will the gtrs flood the frequencies you need to cut through, they will need to eq their gtr sound and roll off bass, etc for you to have any chance.
Gtrs don't seem to get this and there is one big wall of sound..their wall of sound.

You have more than enough watts to play with in any un-mic'ed situation so you really need to sit down and chat about what you expect to get from all this. Good luck with that..as gtrs who haven't gotten this by now as normally very oblivious to others..
and resistant to common sense.

I agree the SWR and Eden voices are not for some and Ampeg or Orange are more ideal, possibly, but if seems mix is the main thing here and you aren't likley to get that until you address the common cause..which is that the line-up is too loud for the stages venues.

A 100 watt marshall needs a lot of room to distipate.. A LOT of room..and maybe some of your venues are too small.

I assume everyone wears ear plugs, but what about the audience..?
FWIW..we often get complimented on a good sound..where you can hear everything very clearly, and we have had to use various snares for various known equations... some are just too loud and that means the band matches that.
but you need to EQ the instruments to not get in anyone elses way, soundwise..not easy with an 88 key piano if the keys are being an arse.. ditto gtr..if he insists on using bass eq..

We use a 30w gtr combo, stereo PA mix for the Keys and 400watts on bass and maybe 600watt P.A
We could easily blow out any pub we play with that amount on tap.. and wouldn't be very popular.

Some bands confuse power with volume and it needn't be the same thing at all.

[Ghost_Bass]

In your case i would wait a few months for the new Genz Benz Streamliner (hopefully a nice valve sound) and add a Barefaced Supertwelve T to it. I seriously doubt you would ever blow that rig and am almost sure not one of your band mates could go higher than your bass! OH!... and this rig is light as a feather! A bit expensive though...

Edited December 14, 2010 by Ghost_Bass

[sk8]

Bergantino NV412 works really well in my punk rock covers band.

That and a Streamliner should bury both guitards and the drummer!

[chris_b]

Ok, so maybe 2 810's is overkill!

If you're driving your amp to the limit it will almost certainly be pushing distortion into your cabs. That might be the cause of your blown speakers. A bigger amp, not running so hard and giving a less distorted signal, won't do that.

Also if you had an 8 ohm 210 and ran it with your 4 ohm 410 you'd be giving each speaker equal power. At the moment you're caning the 210 and hardly pushing the 410.

Just a thought, your blown speakers could be caused by hitting the strings very hard. If the strings then hit the pole pieces on your pickups the "bang" might be enough to cause damage?

[grimbeaver]

Thats highly likely to be honest, I can get a bit carried away, thats why I moved from eden to the SWR rig the 750x has a ton of power and the 610 goliath is indestructable no matter how I play with them matched up together.

I may be better sticking to the SWR rig and using the sansamp for a bit of grind.

20 years plus and still not happy with my sound, will the quest ever end? will the GAS ever stop, perhams I need a new guitar.............

[lushuk]

Hi Rob
I wish to state these are just ime/imho and hope its of some use to you
As you may remember I was chatting to you some time ago when I was toying with getting some Eden gear to use in my rock covers band, when I tried the gear out (for me) I found it to be a bit clinically clean if you know what I mean for the sound I was after, i've had Trace Elliot ah1000, ah500, br5, svt 3 pro, ampeg pre, samsamp pre, bbe pre driven with a Chevin amp etc............... lol ............. then I got the svt cl which I got from a board member and have not looked back, it has the meat, juice, balls to keep up and beyond any stacks im likely to come across I normally operate with the volume around 2-3 which gives me all the growl I could wish for.
I aint going to the list all the cabs and combinations ive tried but 2 stuck out for me, a Ampeg 810 and the Ampeg 610, I went for the 610 for these reasons, the sound is a little bit more middy which I prefer than the 810, in combo with svt cl it has heaps more volume than I will EVER need, its portable by myself if needs be, and weight is never a problem anyway as we are a 5 piece band and we all muck in to get everyone's gear in so help is always on hand, it also has side handles unlike the 810 which I struggled with on my own! And finally it looks the bollo**s with the svt sat on top pure rock n roll.
At the end of the day im a average (some may say below average:) bass player, but I do like nice gear and the best sound I can achieve, and the svt cl & 610 give me just that and more.
Hope this post is of some use, here is a link to a clip its a bit raw but its a no frills recording, turn the bass up and have a listen it may give you some ideas!


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik2RHYy-zws"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik2RHYy-zws[/url]


Good luck in your quest!
Regards Eddy

[0175westwood29]

the aguilar db750 is a beast! i use it with my ampeg 610 so loud! but can be gritty if i push the gain enough.

andy

[Raggy]

[quote name='sk8' post='1058400' date='Dec 14 2010, 12:05 PM']Bergantino NV412 works really well in my punk rock covers band.

That and a Streamliner should bury both guitards and the drummer![/quote]

Hell Yea

I think the 450 might be a little underpowered for your needs though. I am sure I have read somewhere in a review the SS Ampegs didn't feel like the power ratings they had stated.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Raggy

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='Raggy' post='1058704' date='Dec 14 2010, 04:36 PM']Hell Yea

I think the 450 might be a little underpowered for your needs though. I am sure I have read somewhere in a review the SS Ampegs didn't feel like the power ratings they had stated.[/quote]

+1!

i used to have a pro 6 and that was way overrated, i played a used 450 in a shop and it was going through a 410 ampeg cab not sure if it was hlf or not. but was very quite had the volume at about 3/4 and dnt get me wrong it was loud but i then played a lm2 through same cab and couldnt have it past half was way to loud!

i love ampeg cabs but im not to fussed over there amps anymore, the cl and vr's are lovely amps but for the size and weight of the things i dnt think they worth it!

andy

[xgsjx]

I'm still picturing you trying to reach upto the head sitting atop the 2 vertically stacked 8x10s.

[ianSB]

ive got the 450h and i use it with a 610
it does the job and sounds good so i cant really complain tbh
its up against 2 half stack marshalls which are all valve and a very loud drummer

[kaygee]

Hi Rob,

If you're not gigging this Saturday come over to the Derby Arms in Colne and try my Pro 3 and 2 4x10's, get up for a couple of songs too if you want?

Cheers
Kev

[lushuk]

[quote]If you're not gigging this Saturday come over to the Derby Arms in Colne and try my Pro 3 and 2 4x10's, get up for a couple of songs too if you want?[/quote]

Dont get much better than that!

Edited December 15, 2010 by lushuk

[grimbeaver]

Hi Kev,
Didnt know you were running SVT stuff, we are gigging at the cricks on Saturday or I would have come along, I will defo come along to the Talbot on the 7th though.

How do you think it is in comparison to the SWR rig as you have used them both

Cheers

Rob




[quote name='kaygee' post='1059208' date='Dec 15 2010, 12:59 AM']Hi Rob,

If you're not gigging this Saturday come over to the Derby Arms in Colne and try my Pro 3 and 2 4x10's, get up for a couple of songs too if you want?

Cheers
Kev[/quote]

[kaygee]

Your SWR rig has a very clean, hifi sound and loads of volume, when I did the sound for your band at that bike rally your bass was filling the marquee with little help from the PA. My rig sounds warmer/grittier/slightly distorted with less top end that suits rock/metal and in the 5 years I've had it I've not GASed for anything else.

Bring your bass down on the 7th and you can hear how it sounds through my rig and have a good gig at the Cricketers

[grimbeaver]

cheers Kev, you da man.

have a good xmas and see you 7th