A Question For Teachers

[Pete Academy]

Following a conversation I had with someone today, if you genuinely thought someone was never going to learn to play their instrument through lack of talent or commitment, would you tell them straight? And if so, how would put it to them?

[Rosh]

Over three or so years at £20 an hour


I think it's best just to be honest, let them know they need to put more effort in else they're going to achieve nothing

[jakenewmanbass]

Yes and as straightforwardly as possible.

[Doddy]

Depends what the student was in it for. If it was just something that they really enjoyed,despite a complete lack
of ability,then I'll happily leave it up to them i they wanted to continue.Some people know they will never get anywhere
but just enjoy themselves. I'd never say flat out that they'll never play though.I'll just tailor the lessons so that they will
hopefully get something out of it.Even if it's the simplest thing ever,they will get the satisfaction of being able to play something.
If it was through a continued lack of commitment,I'll tell them that they need to get their arse in gear-Some will and some
won't.

[Jerry_B]

Talent can blossom, in time. It only gets nipped in the bud by a lack of commitment. So if the latter is the problem, that's the real deal breaker. Finding your feet in terms of developing a talent may not happen quickly or in an obvious way. That's my experience from being a teacher (not music) anyway.

[scalpy]

I've never had to tell a pupil that they were wasting their time. These things seem to come to a natural conclusion if things aren't progressing. There can be problems with delusions of grandeur, or not being able to listen etc etc but the longer I do this the more I realise that I as an educator (what was that about delusions of grandeur?) have very little effect on a pupil's progress. The only thing they need is motivation. It is true that some learners have potential and aptitude, musical intelligence is a plus of course, whatever that is but it appears in the text books so I'll acknowledge it here. Whilst finding appropriate methods and musical choices as teaching tools play a huge part in being encouraging as does a patient and kind relationship, no educator can do the task for the pupil. I have been teaching classroom music for ten years and with the benefit of hindsight could not say with any certainty that any pupils who had the motivation have ever gone on to be a hopeless case.

[BassBod]

Yes, I do, but hopefully in a considered and honest manner! Normally it becomes clear to both parties fairly quickly - I don't see any point in taking a long time. However, I'm not technique or improvement obsessed either, and I'm happy to see students improve at their rate, in keeping with their musical ambitions and goals. That can mean very different things to different people.

[dudewheresmybass]

I don't think i can add anything other than what has already been said.
Honesty and integrity are the keys

If you're honest, the next time someone that they know is looking for a teacher your name should be near the top of the list

[bobbass]

I think that most of the time young people who seem to lack ability are those who do not practise. This is down to a lack of interest in music as a whole. However hard they find the basics, it is often possible to get them playing. If you can find out any tune/band they enjoy, and get them playing the root notes (not the proper bass line) with one finger any way they can. The idea at this stage i think is to give them the ability to listen and enjoy music. Many children or young teenagers have not had the exposure to music, or their parents do not have a record collection. They have not heard of the beatles for instance. These kids are a blank canvas. They other difficulty with the bass, is that it is designed to accompany other instruments. Without the ability to do so, it is hard to understand it's musical role. Even if they can just play E A D G i can think of endless chord types to play on the piano with them. Anything to get them playing with another person. (ie, me) Lack of ability is fine, as long as they have either the desire or discipline to practise. Sometimes i move too fast and then realize i need to take a few steps back. But there are ways of making the musically boring early stages a little more interesting and interactive. I try anyway, although i do understand your frustration!

[JimBobTTD]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='994069' date='Oct 19 2010, 09:47 PM']Following a conversation I had with someone today, if you genuinely thought someone was never going to learn to play their instrument through lack of talent or commitment, would you tell them straight? And if so, how would put it to them?[/quote]

If you genuinely think that someone will never learn, you have no business being a teacher.

[Pete Academy]

I just thought I'd point out that I don't teach. I was just interested to know how you teachers go about things when faced with this scenario.

[Jam]

My art teacher told me after GCSE "There's no point you doing art A-Level, you'd be no good at it", and I believed her. I'm so angry now though, I'm actually quite good and I think I could have been so much better.

Never tell someone they can't do something, even that guy with one arm on youtube plays bass really well.

[JTUK]

Define a no-hoper..its all relative

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='JimBobTTD' post='994376' date='Oct 20 2010, 05:27 AM']If you genuinely think that someone will never learn, you have no business being a teacher.[/quote]

Strictly speaking that is not what he said, your cutting the sentence short changes the meaning. It's conceivable that one could identify a likelihood that an individual does not have an aptitude for a certain endeavour, in exactly the same proportions (but inversely) as one could identify that they do, have an aptitude.
That one would state it should not be shied from, and is in my view the correct and decent course of action. Further, it would not suggest that their ability to learn per se is compromised.
I would, like others have said, be perfectly happy to indulge a students sheer enjoyment of the process, but would never think it right to mislead them as to where their possibilities of achievement lie.

Edit for afterthought:
The principle behind my point sounds so dry when read back like this, so I would add that while that is at the core of my belief as a tutor, it does not detract one Iota from the enthusiasm and encouragement I apply to the process, ask anyone I've taught from here.... they will all probably have had the experience of me rattling on for ages after the time is up

Edited October 20, 2010 by jakesbass

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='JTUK' post='994514' date='Oct 20 2010, 10:13 AM']Define a no-hoper..its all relative[/quote]
I think that could be attributed to poor choice of terminology is all

[Doddy]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='994590' date='Oct 20 2010, 11:34 AM']they will all probably have had the experience of me rattling on for ages after the time is up [/quote]

Glad I'm not the only one who does that

[Neko]

[quote name='Jam' post='994512' date='Oct 20 2010, 10:12 AM']My art teacher told me after GCSE "There's no point you doing art A-Level, you'd be no good at it", and I believed her. I'm so angry now though, I'm actually quite good and I think I could have been so much better.

Never tell someone they can't do something, even that guy with one arm on youtube plays bass really well.[/quote]

I think your art teacher must have been related to my art teacher!! He said the same thing to me!

I don't think there's such a thing as a no-hoper. As long as the person gets SOMETHING out of it then it's not a waste of time! The only time this sort of thing would be a problem is with teachers who force the same teaching regime on each student rather than tailoring the lesson to suit their needs.

Teach them Tetris! Tetris!!! XD

[MacDaddy]

I have seen children with communication/learning difficulties and/or physical disabilities who may never be proficient at playing an instrument, but the unbridled joy they get from creating sound and being able to express themselves greatly enhances their well-being and development.