Getting that slap sound?

[STU-SBL]

I'm currently playing in a long established covers bands... you know the kind of thing I'm talking about, Soul, Rock, Funk, Pop.

I'm pretty happy with the overall sound levels and I monitor in-ear. We have a very large PA consisting on 3 cabs per side (stacked small to very large)
and I'm struggling to dial in a slap sound that I'm happy with.

The problem I face is the sound I hear lacks any feel, which means EQ-ing from my bass is nearly impossible. My usual slap EQ doesn't cut it live.

Anyone out there use any pedals or similar to help? I've used a small amount of compression in the form of a pedal - any other suggestions?

I own a bass pod (first version) and I'm willing to try others.

Cheers

Stu

[clauster]

I'm not much of a slapper, but I'd say plenty of compression and a scooped eq.

[neilb]

[quote name='clauster' post='108810' date='Dec 24 2007, 09:44 AM']I'm not much of a slapper, but I'd say plenty of compression and a scooped eq.[/quote]


+1

[Dood]

and nice new strings for a springy and vibrant tone to your thumbing and pops!

[Silent Fly]

I think it would help if you could tell us the bass/strings, amp and settings you use.

[Hamster]

+1 for compression and a bit of scooping. To give a bit more eq, maybe you could use an Aphex bass exciter (pedal or rack) - marvellous things

Hamster

[dr.funk]

I don't think that a scooped eq would work so well in a band context. Maybe look at boosting the low mids, that can add quite a lot of weight to your tone. I think the biggest factor is having new strings, something like elixirs although expensive last along time. With a jazz bass I think you get the classic slap sound with both pickups on full (to my ears) although the neck pickup can work quite well on it's own in a band as it cuts through well, if sounding a little clanky, so definately experiment with pickup balance. Just my opinions..

[STU-SBL]

Sorry for the rather brief post this morning.

As you can see from my signature I use a 5 string Overwater J5, an Epi 310 and an EA iamp 800.

I try to keep the head as flat as possible and eq as much as I can from the bass (Audere JZ3).

It's not so much the idea behind gaining a decent slap tone that I'm struggling with (that I can sort out) more cutting through the general mix. I thought others may be in a similar situation. When playing live I don't have a lot of time to EQ between songs and by the time I've ended one song I've got very little chance to hear what I sound like before I'm slapping my heart out

I did have a programmable Sans Amp Bass Driver Di which I thought was great, but at the time had no real use for. This is the kind of thing I'm thinking of.... the ability to pre-set.

Stu

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='dr.funk' post='108878' date='Dec 24 2007, 12:08 PM']With a jazz bass I think you get the classic slap sound with both pickups on full (to my ears) although the neck pickup can work quite well on it's own[/quote]
almost right, for the marcus type slap sound I just back the neck pick up off a fraction. Also don't be afraid to have what will seem like quite a bright sound in close proximity to the amp, it will sound much less bright at a distance as there is competition for that frquency space being generated by other parts of the band, whereas your bass frequencies should (assuming the sound is being done well) survive to the back of the room relatively unassailed by the rest of the noisy gits onstage (tounge firmly in cheek there)
Jake

[Silent Fly]

[quote name='bleedproof' post='108918' date='Dec 24 2007, 02:08 PM'](...)
As you can see from my signature I use a 5 string Overwater J5, an Epi 310 and an EA iamp 800.

I try to keep the head as flat as possible and eq as much as I can from the bass (Audere JZ3).
(...)[/quote]

It looks like there is nothing that stops you to get a good slap sound from your gear.

It is interesting that you control your eq on the bass leaving the amp flat. I do exactly the opposite. I keep the bass flat and I control the EQ on my amp. There are a couple of reasons why I prefer to do so.

First, with the bass eq flat, the preamp does not clip easily. I have maximum headroom for the effects and the compressor does not kick in unnecessarily.

Secondly, if the on-board eq is flat, I always have enough spare headroom on the bass eq to correct the sound between songs.

More in general, I recommend you to keep your eq (bass and amp) flat for at least 15 minutes before changing any setting. This will clean your ear from any previous sound you memorized and that can lead you to odd results. You have first class gear and in theory you should have an excellent sound without adding anything. After 15 minutes, try to find what you think you need to [i]remove[/i] from your sound. There might be a certain frequency that rings or some other that sound unpleasant. To locate and remove the offending frequency, use the parametric eq on your amp. In any case use the eq with moderation.

Sometimes, if the slap sound of the bass doesn’t cut through the mix is because it collides with other instruments. Have a listen to the snare drum. It is likely that some frequencies overlap. You can ask your drummer to lower/rise the pitch of the snare or you can cut the frequencies that are the same for both instruments. Because you will cut frequencies that are in the higher part of the sound spectrum, you are able to boost (slightly) the frequencies adjacent to the frequency you cut. If for instance you cut 1.6kHz, -6dB, you can probably boost the Hi eq by a couple of dB – this should help you to cut through the mix.

[BigBassBob]

Fresh strings, perhaps a compressor set to a slight boost on gain, or a compressor and EQ pedal to tweek the sound to your tastes.

[Kev]

i get my best slap sound with fresh new boingy strings

[Kiwi]

what do you mean by a "lack of feel"?

[STU-SBL]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='109568' date='Dec 26 2007, 05:31 PM']what do you mean by a "lack of feel"?[/quote]


What I mean by that is the feed I get from the desk is balanced but very sterile to my ears. I know that the sound in the crowd is acceptable (as I've had my brother crit my last gig) but a large part of playing slap for me is the feel I get - the response of the bass and the sound that fills my ears.

Thinking about it, it's really a problem of two parts.

1. I suppose I'm having more difficulty accepting that the sound I hear will be very different to that which the audience hears due to the small in ear monitors (opposed to the powered PA cabs). This I can live with if part 2 can be addressed.

2. I mention that I leave the EQ of my EA flat. I have played EA for a long time and know that the EQ has almost an infinite number of tone shaping options. I however, having always used the limited EQ on whatever bass I play and my hands to create 'my sound', I will use the amp to shape the sound to the room/ venue/ location.... or if pushed for time, bypass the EQ via the DI out and use the desk.

I then find myself with a decent sound - but not for every extreme we play (I can only do so much with the bass).

I can either get very good at EQing the amp 'blind' and hope that it all works.

or

I was hoping for some suggestions from anyone in a similar situation. As I mentioned I had a Sans Amp that seems like an option. Thicken the sound a little?

[jammie17]

[quote name='dood' post='108828' date='Dec 24 2007, 10:37 AM']and nice new strings for a springy and vibrant tone to your thumbing and pops![/quote]

Slapping or not, new strings are so important. I've read where guys have had sets on for a year and say they still have a bright sound to them? I replace my strings on average, once a month. I play/practice 2 hours a day. I write "pop" rock but play progressive rock, (transatlantic, for instance) to keep up my chops. I'm slap a bit for fun, but have never really concentrated on learning that style. I love to listen to a well versed slapper however. Some bassists can make their guitar sing. But you HAVE to have fresh strings!! How do you think you cut through the mix? EQ the heck out of a dead set of strings?

[jammie17]

[quote name='bleedproof' post='109620' date='Dec 26 2007, 07:52 PM'][b]What I mean by that is the feed I get from the desk is balanced but very sterile to my ears. I know that the sound in the crowd is acceptable (as I've had my brother crit my last gig) but a large part of playing slap for me is the feel I get - the response of the bass and the sound that fills my ears. [/b][i][/i]
Thinking about it, it's really a problem of two parts.

1. I suppose I'm having more difficulty accepting that the sound I hear will be very different to that which the audience hears due to the small in ear monitors (opposed to the powered PA cabs). This I can live with if part 2 can be addressed.

2. I mention that I leave the EQ of my EA flat. I have played EA for a long time and know that the EQ has almost an infinite number of tone shaping options. I however, having always used the limited EQ on whatever bass I play and my hands to create 'my sound', I will use the amp to shape the sound to the room/ venue/ location.... or if pushed for time, bypass the EQ via the DI out and use the desk.

I then find myself with a decent sound - but not for every extreme we play (I can only do so much with the bass).

I can either get very good at EQing the amp 'blind' and hope that it all works.

or

I was hoping for some suggestions from anyone in a similar situation. As I mentioned I had a Sans Amp that seems like an option. Thicken the sound a little?


.[/quote]



I understand EXACTLY what you are saying. And to be VERY honest, it DOES affect your playing.

Edited December 26, 2007 by jammie17

[STU-SBL]

[quote name='jammie17' post='109630' date='Dec 26 2007, 08:23 PM']Some bassists can make their guitar sing. But you HAVE to have fresh strings!! How do you think you cut through the mix? EQ the heck out of a dead set of strings?[/quote]


Thanks for the the reply.

Again I'd like to point out I'm not having trouble with the in's and out's of obtaining the sound, or infact how to play slap. I think my choice of title was a mistake

I've been playing long enough now to know when to change my strings and have enough experience to know how to get my bass to sing

I suppose I'm coming from the point of view of a regularly gigging bass player. I get paid to perform and my sound is part of that performance. As I don't have a non paying gig if I sound bad my playing can and has been compromised ( as per your last comment I agree)

It seems to me that there seem to be a lot of questions about technique, how to get a sound or a style down - but always within the context of the practice session or bedroom.

I'm sure there may be players out there who identify with my situation. My frustration is probably aided by my guitarists egotistically driven tone trip (masses of pedals, too many guitars etc). I usually have my amp and a bass....

I'm probably answering my own question - perhaps I need to buy a few pedals - then sell them on here when it doesn't work out lol

[Silent Fly]

You could try something like this:

[code]Bass-->Sans Amp Bass Driver Di------>PA
|
(parallel out)------>Amp[/code]

This should leave the sound coming from you amp unaltered and it should put a little bit of life in the sound that goes to the PA. If you need more body in the sound you get in your monitor, you can further equalize the sound to your monitor (perhaps adding a little bit of bass and cutting the midrange around 1kHz).

[The Funk]

It sounds like you might be feeling disconnected from the bass/amp because you're going through the in-ears. If that's the problem and there's no other way of monitoring, I suppose you'll have to get used to the in-ears and trust your sound and the sound guy.

It sounds like you're problem isn't so much worrying that the sound might not be right out front but more that you're not feeling 'one with your bass sound'. I chatted with Nick Fyffe ex-Jamiroquai once and he said that he left on in-ear in and one in-ear out. Maybe that could help?

[STU-SBL]

[quote name='The Funk' post='109760' date='Dec 27 2007, 04:40 AM']I chatted with Nick Fyffe ex-Jamiroquai once and he said that he left on in-ear in and one in-ear out. Maybe that could help?[/quote]


Funny you should mention that - I've been doing the same thing over the last couple of gigs.

I think I'll look at adding something in the form of a pedal so I have the option to 'stomp' a sound I like.

Thanks guys

Stu

[jacko]

I don't slap much in our set but when I do I add in a little chorus. Gives it a bit of zing.

[Chopthebass]

Hi Stu,

I'm not sure what IEM system you're using, but I can relate to the in-ear sound being different to the front of house sound, and this does, without a doubt, affect your playing.

To get round this I connect my line-out from the amp to the PA, but this goes thru my own mini-mixer. I connect a spare PA monitor outs to one channel of my mixer, and then use Shure E2 earphones. I had to spend a bit of time at a live gig to get the PA monitor mix right, but once that was done it hardly changes gig to gig. My amps line-out goes to another channel of my mixer, so I can be as loud as I want in the ears. Plus I have 4-band eq on the mixer to play with. It works for me and I can be as loud as I like without the drummer asking me to turn down!

Cheers
Ian

[bass_ferret]

Dont forget lots of amps pre-shape or contour should really be labelled "slap".

[jammie17]

[quote name='bleedproof' post='109714' date='Dec 26 2007, 11:35 PM']Thanks for the the reply.

Again I'd like to point out I'm not having trouble with the in's and out's of obtaining the sound, or infact how to play slap. I think my choice of title was a mistake

I've been playing long enough now to know when to change my strings and have enough experience to know how to get my bass to sing

I suppose I'm coming from the point of view of a regularly gigging bass player. I get paid to perform and my sound is part of that performance. As I don't have a non paying gig if I sound bad my playing can and has been compromised ( as per your last comment I agree)

It seems to me that there seem to be a lot of questions about technique, how to get a sound or a style down - but always within the context of the practice session or bedroom.

I'm sure there may be players out there who identify with my situation. My frustration is probably aided by my guitarists egotistically driven tone trip (masses of pedals, too many guitars etc). I usually have my amp and a bass....

I'm probably answering my own question - perhaps I need to buy a few pedals - then sell them on here when it doesn't work out lol[/quote]


Ahhhh...I thought you were talking a bit about the "Feel" of the bass....as in feeling the notes onstage as you play them. (Power).

[Kiwi]

Well the thing I'm aware of is how the mids get soaked up by the punters in a venue. Good mids are the key to any decent bass sound on stage so I'm wondering how much of your issue is caused by the venue and how much by your rig? If its caused by the venue, there's no point in getting better quality kit unless it solves a specific problem.

If your rig is the issue then you should probably tailor your set up towards more mid emphasis. I'd imagine the EA is a pretty aggressive sounding amp in being solid state however I wouldn't have made Epiphani my first choice in cabs. They tend to be quite warm sounding and a bit lacking in upper mids generally but I have no way of knowing whether your EA amp compensates for that in any way. The Epi cab + solid state head generally seems to be a popular choice with other BC'ers (particularly GK and Epi) so there's an inference that it might be OK. But what I also don't know is how loud your onstage monitoring volume is. You'd probably find it more difficult to hear yourself if everyone else is playing loudly even if you had lots of power because the sound will get muddier as it gets louder. So if you do play loud on stage maybe the cheapest answer would be to ask everyone to turn down?

FWIW Bass Central have a couple of EA 2x10 cabs for sale at the moment for £300 each I think. Given their light weight - might be worth getting them shipped over?

[url="http://www.basscentral.com/2003/used.shtml"]<a href="http://www.basscentral.com/2003/used.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.basscentral.com/2003/used.shtml[/url]</a>