EBS_freak

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1380647875' post='2228452'] OK, what you said (and I did quote it in my initial response) was "It doesn't matter what stories good or bad you are told..." - and that's to qualify that if you want something that only X can provide, X has you over a barrel and you'd better lube up. So yes, I think we're in agreement - my point being that the stories are valuable because they can affect your decision. [/quote] Yes! (I think!) in that if you must have a product, your heart takes over and the stories can become irrelevant, apart from telling you how much lube you may need. Good clarification!

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1380644039' post='2228373'] Specialty guitar makers aren't really luthiers. They're essentially carpenters. And ALL guitars are a combination of machine work and hand building. Everything From a Fodera is a Squier. So there's a little bit of snob appeal here and it's significance is quite overrated. [/quote] *snigger* Why don't you send off a few emails to these carpenters. They'll make for an ace inclusion in the book.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1380642513' post='2228337'] Perhaps luthiers should write reviews about their customers? [/quote] Now that would make for interesting reading... Theres a certain customer with the initials FW who is legendary amongst the luthier circles... A book of the all the emails would sell for sure.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1380568839' post='2227286'] A product either stands up or it doesn't... [/quote] well, that depends if it is missing feet...

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380639584' post='2228283'] I think that's why everyone asks for a modern C shape with a nice bit of Brazillian to get their fingers on [/quote] It makes you wonder what the luthier saw in you to suggest a choice of a spalted wood doesn't it?

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1380640071' post='2228294'] that's really cool. What is it? [/quote] Pavel single cut Jazz - lovely isn't it?

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380639356' post='2228277'] I'd be a bit embarrassed telling him I like it shallow with a narrow nut width [/quote] HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! If only people knew what we were talking about. That's the post of thread.

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380637911' post='2228254'] Because ol Chris is one charming muthaf***er [/quote] Yeah, but does he wine you and dine you, ask for neck measurements....?

[quote name='Lorne' timestamp='1380636979' post='2228231'] I completely agree with Shockwave, and I will name and shame I gave Chris Eccleshall my B.C.Rich Widow bass to remove 3 pots, add a rosewood headstock overlay, bind the body inlay the fretboard and headstock with inlays I provided,respray it completely in black, all work was painstakingly explained and he took notes. MANY MANY phone calls in between (All from my end), I finally get the "It's finished" call 2 YEARS later. I arrive, he's set is up all lovely on a stand at the end of a corridor, from 20 ft away I say "Oh for F***'s sake!" , What's wrong is the reply, "The inlays are opposing triangles, the points of which are supposed to touch in the middle of the fretboard, NONE of them do, and they get further apart towards the body" Of course, I am wrong, then I get close to the bass, "where's the serial number gone from the end of the fretboard?" What serial number? I didn't see one I made him stamp it back on, there and then. the headstock overlay was 2 peices of rosewood, the binding wasn't great, and it was 2 different colours of black!!!! But, under the threat of me killing him, I gave him a second chance with my USA B.C.Rich Ironbird, which I had with me, he was NOT to respray it, get someone else to do it, remove the fretboard, replace the trussrod (DO NOT LOSE THE SERIAL NUMBER) get it working, then strip the paint and send it away for a respray. All to be done within a year! After 3 YEARS of me phoning and asking, "How much has been done" and getting the predictable, I haven't done much, I asked "SPECIFICALLY, what have you done in the 2 months since my last phone call" NOTHING "Right, find all the bits. I'll pick it up" Ok, when "NOW" Got the bass back, all that had happened is the hardware removed, the electrics and one of the pick ups, absolutely NO work actually done to it. I gave it to Tom Anderson and told him to just get it working 12 HOURS later, the fretboard is OFF, broken truss rod removed and a new one to be custom made, ordered. although the respray was dropped from the list of work for now, Tom Anderson had the bass completely fixed and working in 3 weeks and 1 day, now, that is what I call service, he had told me 4 weeks to 6 weeks. I will never use Chris Eccleshall again, which is a shame as he is such a nice guy, just useless [/quote] Err... you gave him a second chance? 3 years? Err... what is wrong with you? This is something - as you have proven - could be done by any other luthier. Why would put yourself through that?

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1380636564' post='2228222'] *Runs in* Glad I play a Fender *Runs out* [/quote] It's a custom build. They just put a fake decal on it.

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1380636070' post='2228214'] It's not all negative! I have a custom instrument and it's exactly the image i had in my head of what I wanted. Sounds and looks! [/quote] Agreed. The right custom instrument is fantastic. Just ask some of the countless custom owners on here. The key thing is, is finding the right builder and speccing what you need, not what you think you need (cos that's when things start to go horribly wrong!)

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1380634435' post='2228180'] Then I misinterpreted what you said, which was along the lines of "it doesn't matter what the stories are like". I've been getting the implication from your postings that there's no point in people posting about problems they've had with a luthier. If people don't post their stories then how do other know that the stories are bad, or even, indeed, whther the stories exist at all? [/quote] It absolutely does matter what the stories are like. Some folk for example, I knew if I dealt with (given the stories that I have read), would be a rollercoaster ride. I'd have to think carefully about taking that step. Perhaps I should clarify - sometimes the want for the product overrides all the negative stories. You brain tells you it's a bad move... but your heart really wants it. If my want for the product was strong enough, despite bad stories, I'd have to accept that I'm going to be in for a rough ride but live in the hope that it would all be worth it - that is if I was to pursue it. Funnily enough, my experience with a certain luthier on a small purchase, lost him a 4.5k deal because I couldn't face the risk of dealing with it all again. The want for their 4.5k product pretty much disappeared overnight.

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1380634166' post='2228175'] That's why the Beatles got significantly better after 1965 when Macca got a proper bass.... [/quote] I think you'll find it was '68...

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1380633544' post='2228162'] But it does matter what the stories are. A typical shop transaction consists of finding a shop with what you want in it, visiting the shop with the requisite amount of money, obtaining the object of desire, handing over the money, and returning home. If you look at the ledger of your life, you have now obtained the most recent object of desire and it has cost you a certain amount of money and a certain amount of time. What you don't have, and don't have to budget for, is pain (in the metaphorical rather than literal sense). If the cost of your object of desire was not just money and a known amount of time but an unknown amount of time, frustration, and stress, then knowing that there would be lost time, extra frustration, and extra stress does mean that one can decide whether the desire for the object of desire is actually sufficient to balance not just the financial cost but also the potential pain. So, if I find that luthier X could make an instrument which cries out to me to own it, but others' experience would lead me to believe it could be five years and innumerable unanswered phone calls and emails, while luthier Y could supply me with an instrument almost as wonderful which is sitting on a shelf waiting for strings (and not strings made from unicorn mane either), then I could make an informed decision based on how much money and how much pain I would place as the valu of an instrument. [/quote] Err... I'm not disagreeing with you. If you are going down the custom route without doing your homework, then you really are leaving yourself wide open! All I am saying is (and this seems to be being ignored), if you know the stories are bad and only luthier X will deliver the goods, you have the choice to either go with it and deal with the potential anguish... or not. For some, luthier Y will never be an option. If you must have a Status for example - because you want to have a replica of Mark King's bass, then any other bass will fall short* * not implicating that Status have bad customer service, just stating them as they have a product that nobody else has.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1380630582' post='2228069'] One would not expect Aston Martin to honor a warranty replacement claim should one drive it into a grove of trees. [/quote] It depends if the steering column snapped beforehand... I'm sure the insurance company would come knocking at their door pretty swiftish.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1380629549' post='2228040'] This is the point I have been trying to get across to EBS Freak all along! If you are a first time customer, how are you supposed to know that you will get lied to over delivery times etc? You are not a fool in my eyes, and you deserve to be angry for having to put up with terrible service, and you definitely should not have to [b][i]put up and shut up![/i][/b] Only my opinion of course! [/quote] Am I right in thinking that Shockwave ordered a custom bass, without meeting the maker, no contract, without talking neck profiles and showing Jon what you want, without having a contact name, without having a contact address or telephone number and gave him money for this? Being a first time customer seems way down my checklist at the moment. Terrible service is one thing... but protecting yourself from a potential hiding is another. Find the guy, ask for your money back. Given what you've said here, he may even want to give you your money back (assuming money has changed hands at this point). I guarantee if that bass is ever made, you'll have no joy from playing it anyway. I'm not being horrible, having a go or anything when I say this. Save yourself and the builder the heartache.

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1380628341' post='2228009'] Reading between the lines it seems like you are saying I am a fool for thinking the best of people. Thanks for that, it's really appreciated. Maybe I am a fool for doing that, but I don't need you implying that. Of course, you would deny that as well. [/quote] Just noticed that you added this bit. I don't think you are a fool at all... and I think you are implying that I am suggesting something which isn't there. If this is how you feel, I would say for certain, that buying off the shelf is the best for you and your sanity! PS, don't buy a Morgan! Also, you'll find that there are not many Jon Letts in Leicester if you are looking for a telephone number (or address for that matter). I would also say (although it's a bit too late at this point) that's it very odd for a business not to make this information readily available on their business website.

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1380628341' post='2228009'] My first custom built basses ever, I searched on here and there was nothing to suggest any major problems with time keeping at Lettsbass in peoples reviews beforehand. So there seemed to be no problems, it's just unfortunate I am one who seems to have been taken advantage of. Maybe you could "Drop" the condescending attitude and baiting behavior? Which of course you'll deny and say "I was only trying to help, what a terrible thing for a moderator to say". Well all these posts are in a personal capacity anyway. [/quote] Nothing baiting or condescending from this camp I am afraid. I have spoken nothing but sense... how you chose to interpret my written word is up to you! I understand your frustration and if my words have made you feel uneasy, maybe buying bespoke products is not the route for you, especially if you are having difficulty in resolving the issues. Life is too short! Get out there and do some playing instead. I don't believe at any point I have said you were wrong for ordering what you've ordered. I am a fan of custom products... but I also know the nightmares that they can and often do bring. I do hope that they get sorted... but running people's names across the internet rarely get's things sorted... and sours any lines of communications further making resolution that little bit more difficult. "Terrible thing for a moderator to say" - you think I bother reading what is under people's avatars? We're all just people. Say what you want, moderator or not.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380627262' post='2227989'] When I went from Ashdown to Genz a few years ago I knew my playing was very sloppy within a few gigs, unfortunately it still is [/quote] At least the risk of fire is way down now.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380628103' post='2228005'] In reality what happens is the people who waited ages and got really sick of waiting then come back and say even after all the trouble it was worth the wait because its exactly what I wanted and no one else could have made it, so we are still in the dark really. We all know these things will take forever without people pointing it out IMO. [/quote] Isn't that how buying a BF cab seems to work?

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1380627147' post='2227986'] FWIW, Jon Letts hasn't been on BassChat since July so he won't read this thread at all unless someone points it out to him. He is still active though, as he posted some build pics this morning on FaceBook [/quote] You don't have to be logged onto BassChat to read this thread.

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1380627515' post='2227993'] Or they can make a decision whether the wait and hassle is for them and if not, get something else that is similar from someone else, something completely different or just not buy anything! [/quote] Is that the penny dropping?

I've spent many an hour trawling through head-fi. Some very informed people on there... some very not so informed too! I've checked a lot of average_joe's threads. Seems particularly clued up with real world experience - unlike alot of guys out there posting drivel on the internet!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380625145' post='2227942'] I think the people that are missing the point are thinking a custom bass is a Jazz bass with a tort guard and a set of bart pickups rather than the point EBS freak is making where we are talking total one offs or items that hold a value to some people partly because of the name which could even be a dull Jazz bass that costs three times as much for no other reason than the brand. If you want Nike trainers then you want Nike trainers, a pair of Nuke ones off the market might even be better trainers but you still aint got a pair of Nike have you? [/quote] Bingo. For example, you can also buy a J bass from other places, not just Alleva Coppolo...but it won't have that ludicrous headstock with the squirly writing on it... and that may be a must have for you! If you aren't fussed about brands and just want a J bass that is made by a luthier... then the world is your oyster... and then you can certainly vote with your wallet.

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380620974' post='2227853'] Tone is all in the fingers as long as those fingers are stroking some bookmatched diseased wood in the shape of a sperm whale with elephantitis. [/quote] [url="http://www.nado-guitars.com/nado-bass_en.php"]http://www.nado-guitars.com/nado-bass_en.php[/url]