JTUK

I'd split the difference and go 610 but you might be getting to the stage where you will need a couple of rigs for the different level of gigs you envisage playing.. However, how you transport the cab might be as big a factor as anything else..?

Personally I might do a few jam nights to introduce myself but you would need to sift through potential offers.... or be prepared to do most things ( gigs ) just to get yourself known as available. You need to meet guys that like your playing and are also working in more than one band as it is pick up bands that offer the most work and variety, IMO. Basically if you are good enough and people know of you, you'll get work after a while

Who is in the band ( might know them or of them, ) and can you send me some audio...

Some people understand what they are looking for...

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1430918134' post='2765914'] Not doubting your experiences for a second - but just out of interest, which "modern 10" cabs" have you tried? I'm guessing that TKS (Swedish) and Barefaced (British) were not on that list? ............. [/quote] We wont know until top class people start using them... and shops start stocking them.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1430900443' post='2765631'] One of the things that marks out a professional musician, in my experience, is the quality of the sound they produce. I don't care what the instrument is. A pro will pick up a trumpet and get a sound out of it that your average amateur just cannot do - even with the same instrument. As bass players, we probably notice this characteristic more with drummers, but it applies to all musicians - from violinists to pianists. So, when a pro bass player comes along and offers an opinion that is not necessarily mainstream (although perfectly valid IMO), arguing with him on the basis of 'transient response' and 'high Le drivers' is slightly missing the point. And remember, there's science and there's pseudo science. [/quote] Further to this... these players will have a nuance and understanding of the note and how to express it.. they may be able to play one note many many ways whereas most of us have one form of attack and that is about it... there is not a dynamic in the note as we/the player just don't hear it and that is fine and ok but it does rather define the limit of what we can 'hear' and therefore how 'good' ours ears actually are, IMO. It also pretty much will limit what we can play as we can't hear the subtle difference..it is almost Blah to us. ..... So, if someone reads a manual on how to interpret the science, and is convinced they understand, and then the cab sounds not very good.. are we to be convinced because the science said they did the right things..?? The reason I'll go with the pro sound engr employed by the best that money can buy working with same level of musician is because you have the best in the industry endorsing their talent..

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1430862712' post='2765463'] OK now I understand and thanks for explaining. [b]Although I [i]will[/i] say that it doesn't make any sense to dismiss professional acoustic/electrical/mechanical engineering in favour of the ears of good players. And there are lots of successful and talented musicians, singers and song-writers who have a poor understanding of the basics of acoustics. Some of them don't really care about things like tone, and that's fair enough. Each to their own. [/b] I would far rather base my initial selection of bass guitar cabs on their technical specifications. That way you can eliminate those that are obvious poor performers and then move on to using your ears, but - I would never buy a cab based solely on listening to it. It is so easy to be fooled depending on a variety of factors. But for those who don't understand the technical side (or have no interest in learning or simply lack the aptitude) then listening to the advice of those who have the technical knowledge is surely just sensible. Isn't it? Frank. [/quote] Ok...but you are talking about a band of musos's...the poster was/is a guy who gets hired by the very best..and being in that league brings along other top rated experts in their field to work with. The endorsement is at the top level of the industry... you don't to 1st call status. - you are talking world class - if you aren't truly sorted playing wise or sound wise. The standard is too high and there is a lot of competition.. I don't think you are comparing apples with applles, tbh, IMO.

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1430858274' post='2765389'] I've read that several times and I have no idea of what you're saying - sorry. Frank. [/quote] What I'm saying is, if you work at the top end of the scale, everyone else is of that calibre. The players, the studio the engrs ...ect ect..the whole chain. You don't work at that level if you don't know sound and have a great talent for getting it. It is such a core part of the whole process.

One of the classic tones only a Ric can do....IMO but other tones that are credited as Ric sounds were actually from a Jazz... I think work by Squires, Glover and Hughes using both basses are well documented..

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1430773471' post='2764513'] Good point. I've done gigs with small combos before, which have been loud enough at a push, but you take what you're given in terms of tone. [/quote] I mentioned this elsewhere.... I watched a whole bill of bands at a local Beer Festival recently and they all shipped in a backline and played at various volumes. Taking into account what the bass player could and wanted to play and how much he wanted or needed to be heard, plus the sound and technique he could employ and not one of them had a bass sound you could really hear across the range. It may have been correct that the player wasn't concerned about what you could hear as the vibe was more important and didn't have the technical facility either anyway... but I was left thinking what was he trying to achieve and what process lead the other...? Did he think this is what I want tio achieve and therefore this is the sound I need/want or did he think that is all I can handle and this sound gets it done...?? The one common denominator was, IMO, the rigs were small and compact... and handled the bass well enough, but none of them produced a great sound..they all were, degrees of compromises. Some were very easy to live with for some people, and some would have been a huge struggle for others. I can't say I would have been happy with any of them and I wonder if the bass players were either.. I should have worked out how to ask them that question... but really, the demands that a plectrum type players asks of his kit are very different to other players. I'm trying not to say better here, just different. There were 2 finger style bass players as well.... I felt with the rigs they had and the sounds they dialled up, some of them were really struggling to play what they wanted to play... and that is number one situation to avoid, IMO.

But again...you have a stellar pro who pretty much lives or dies by what he can get out of his bass, amp and cab and no one is hiring him if he doesn't sound GREAT. So maybe, there are people who REALLY understand what they are hearing and how they get the sound up and make it work. This is likely beyond the vast majority of us on this forum, tbh and IMV. Sure, talk about science..but if you haven't got ears, you'll likely be the only one in a room who thinks the end result is any good.. If you are talking about reference...who actually endorses your opinions of sound..?? A book..?? If you are amongst the best in the business, it is very very likely you will also be working with other best in the business guys who know sound inside out. I know where my money would go.. tbf..!!

250/8 for botjh amp and cab...and you aren't going to be hitting those levels, I'd have thought. The TH500 does break up quickly tho... which is what some people like. If it was the cab, I'd be concerned. I'd had very hard driven sounds out of a 210 before...and I think it was the amp doing that..

I don't think they do.... but that is fine, you just have to take control there. Not only the gtrs, tho...I generally think most band members don't hear the big band picture... And bass players don't always help, in that they pick a sound the love and they can play to and don't get the overall band sound. The numbers of times, I've thought good sound and food playing, but wrong in context of the band or song. Case in point... I've heard Ibanez basses recently, and thought nice playing and nice sound, but just plain wrong when you are listening to the band as a whole... Too much mid and not enough of a sound to carry the whole band... Not an exclusive observation about those basses, ...and probably not the basses fault, and is down to the bass player himself

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1430741102' post='2764144'] Knowing what a whiz you are with the physics of cabs, but also an exponent of 'real-world' listening tests as often being more important than just 'numbers', I'm guessing you've been running some head to head tests of your cabs against those of the competitors mentioned? [b]I'm sure people would be really interested to hear your conclusions[/b] [/quote] Well, I wouldn't tbh..... I've heard a few of these cabs and I just don't get the tone goals of the people who used them.. All I seem to hear is BASS which drowns out the mix and also kills the tone of the bass. Of course, this is the fault of the people that used them, but then I also think that is the desired tone brief anyway... I do concede that I am not a fan of small units for a discerning sound anyway ...and that sort of thinking definitely doesn't work for me...see the '210 loud enough' thread, but it also depends, muchly, on what you expect soundwise.. Volume is not a problem from small amps and cabs... but tone definitely is, IMO. This is not a one cab issue... I feel all the small units ( I've heard ) 'struggle' but then for plenty of people, there is no 'issue' at all.... I'd like to know what they are trying to achieve, tbh...

I'm looking at this amp as I want more headroom for gigs where I don't use a DB750. The thing I don't like about lightweight amps so far is that they fail soundwise when pushed. And I've just sat thru an afternoon of bands all turning up with small amps and rigs and none of them had a sound that would work even in a pub. They had the volume, but the sound was pretty awful/meh. It also depends what you ask the amp/cab to cope with but clean and audible was not it. Some players want that and only need that and then that is ok... but altho they did the gig and they 'got away' with it... none had a good bass sound in itself. IMO. This is why, whenever I get the chance, I take out a big amp. Amps on show today were a Genz B, Markbass TC BG250 and an Ashdown And because of this, I'm thinking about changing my lightweight amp out for this amp as the headroom angle is interesting....

I think it will need to be a very decent 112 to handle a 5 at volume..

Your second video is post 7 is a case in point. Great facility to do all that when all hell is breaking loose but tight it is not...

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1430750590' post='2764247'] Love Louis Johnson.. his playing/technique was always super clean. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN6o5i_QZ_o[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgsJLGQTfEE[/media] [/quote] Not looking to start an argument but Louis J is not a tight bass player in his style...he is very very aggressive and borderline sloppy, but he has great grit and as was a good as anyone at his peak. If you listen to later stuff, his sound is very driving and he puts so much into the signal,, even the trademark MM sound is very very peakey and overdriven. For an example of this... go check out his starlicks bass video. Just sayin'... and IMHO. of course.

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1430731345' post='2764005'] Do you guys (& girls) play in bands? I'm all for lightweight but if something's too heavy get someone to help, easy. If someone else from the band won't help, then you're in the wrong band! [/quote] true, we do a kit run and you pick up what needs to go out and in. These guys all belong to the same club and have secret meetings, I'm sure. Top of the agenda, lets get as many BF threads as we can. If there aren't enough threads here , there are more in the For sale forum..

I wouldn't discount TKS but you'll need to get to BassGear which is about an hr or less south of Bass Direct, I'd say. IMO, the very interesting thing about them is that not only do they make great cabs, they do both ceramic and NEO ranges and you could get 2 S112's for your budget... which I rated above the SL and CN. I agree, you do need to hear the Vandelkley as well... A 212 is going to be heavier, of course, but the ceramic s112's come in at around 10kg Of course, with all these shops, call ahead to see what they will have at the time of your visit..especially if you make a special day of it..

You can understand why he had his time back then....he took his style right to the front of the music..so much so, he became Quincy Jone's go-to bass player. Marcus M was starting to produce his sound for more and more people and that came thru a lot ...but at one time, Louis Johnson was THE man, I'd say. And in the U.K you started to hear Mark King... maybe a little later..?

If I don't really like the bass..or bond with it, I don't keep it. But I don't generally go through many basses as I know when I've bought the right one in the first place. So, altho my buying process is quite convuluted and drawn out, I don't often get it wrong once I've made up my mind. The pluses and minuses of being a very picky buyer...??

CN212 is a great lightweight cab.... Can you get to Bassgear.. they have a great range of top cabs usually.

[quote name='Guinness21' timestamp='1430571806' post='2762729'] That's interesting. I think you're probably right about the highs, I just hadn't heard my top end heavy bass through punchy drivers so that clicky sound was a new one to me. Still don't think I like it. The Markbass just seems to remove that sizzle from the treble, while like I said the barefaced almost seems to exaggerate it. So the Markbass 104HF is currently winning, but there are a few more cabs I still need to try out. [/quote] What is your budget... I've seen a pr of SL112's for £600 on FB and a pr of Baer 112's for around £900...but maybe the 6" driver is too clean for you...??

I used one in the studio and it had 6 sounds, and I did find one so I think it will be useable. We had to mix the amp and DI down so it worked, but I seem to prefer more organic sounds. Wouldn't complain at the pricepoint tho...