JTUK

So..you are trying to mix something and be confident that it will sound good but you don't really know that because you don't really trust what you are hearing because of where you are standing.. ? for a pub, that IS the mix..!! if it is low for you 15 ft away...chances are your audience is the same sort of distance..? It is good that you have good responses from the people listening to you...but they aren't any sort of reference I'd trust as I've heard their (the ppl who say that to us) bands If you think you sound good and have it sorted...then great.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1435848690' post='2813016'] well if you're closer to the bass amp, the bass will be louder, so it's distorting your perception of the mix overall Reading through this debate a lot of the advice seems to be about EQ and the "space" in the frequency spectrum which each instrument should sit in. That's important, but in my opinion most of the "space" in a mix is created by dynamics, reverb, and good levelling. Several people have talked about keeping the guitars and bass separate in terms of EQ, which is fine, but what if you've got two guitarists and a keyboard? There's a lot of overlap there. There's nothing wrong with two instruments producing the same frequencies, as long as it doesn't get mushy [/quote] If you have two gtrs and keys, you are going to have to have very sensible and senstive players.. and really think thru your song and approach to songs. Most gtr players just can't do it... and you have to have players that are prepared to layer what they play... even to the point that they drop in and out. They need to know dynamics...and they need to talk thru the parts they play... and if they are playing chords, they need to be aware and avoid the chords shapes the other guys plays...

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1435849269' post='2813030'] Not really no. If I'm stood next to the snare and second gtr's combo but the lead gtr's combo is over the other side of the stage the relative amounts of what *I* hear bears no relation to what someone in the middle of the room is hearing. If I asked the lead gtr to turn up to a level so it was level in vol with other things *to me* I can put good money it will then be far too prominent in the FOH mix. [/quote] You are stuffed then.... but IME this happens so rarely if you have thought out the sound and mix. I don't really recognise most of these issues, tbh. The only time it may go to pot is towards the end of the second set when ears are a tad tired and people are getting over enthusiastic...but even then, it is time for a review. Twin gtrs may be more of a problem but mostly because they use the same ball park sound... One reason why you REALLY don't want two gtrs playing with twin HB's... You need to thin the sound out... so that means you have a thin gtr and thicker gtr. You have to avoid the wall of sound 95% of the time...

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1435845393' post='2812973'] But you frequently get a 'distorted' mix of the relative proportions of various instruments as you're stood 'on stage' just depending where you are stood and what you're playing. This is not translated to the FOH overall sound that the audiences hears. This is where you have backline that doesn't go through any PA or monitors of course (common for weekend pub bands). [/quote] why..? you can either hear everything or you can't? If you aren't running front of house, your onstage mix becomes THE mix. We use mons for vox only and if I can't hear an instrument onstage, I'm wondering why straight away. I'm playing WITH the guys so I want to hear everything. There can be no guesses otherwise you'll never get a tight band

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1435825732' post='2812676'] The thing I like about all these master luthiers is that once you strip the marketing, brand heritage and glossy website pics away it essentially boils down to a bloke in a shed... Jens Ritter?... bloke in a shed, Paul Herman?... bloke in a shed, Fodera?... a few blokes in a slightly bigger shed. [/quote] It is not so much the bloke in a shed that is the issue, for me..as long as the kit doesn't look like it was knocked up by any old bloke in the shed. And even some of these two man operations are very capable of excellent work. You wont be a luthier with any sort of name without having some very decent furniture making skills... IMO.

Another thing...concentrate of a good stage mix... and if you are playing a small venue with no FOH..then the good 'onstage' has the best chance to transfer. Stage mixes don't magically fix themselves so if it doesn't sound good to you..chances are it wont anywhere else. Of course there are local little things like traps etc which don't help, but there is not a great deal that can help them anyway. If you are worried about FOH as you can't hear it..then you need a guy who can hear and deal with FOH. But if you have a crap stage sound, how is the FOH going to fix that....? if you have a good sorted stage sound, any decent engr should be able to at least transfer that to the FOH sound... and he may even tweak it a tad better and it makes the soundcheck quick and painless, IMO. I've never been one who agrees that the bass should sound weedy onstage..and therefore sacrifices your (the bass player) performance for the sake of the overall good. All that says to me is that the bass hasn't got their sound right in context with the band. With mixing, always start from the bottom up... so drums, bass, keys, gtr and then vox... and bare is mind that gtr and keys NEVER carry the band in place of the bass. That is what the bass has to do.. Gtrs and keys are dressing or colour..flowery, IMO. Bass is TH foundation...but also I like to have character there and not just a boom presense.. If gtrs and keys act like the want to carry or drive the band...maybe you have the wrong players..??

I've bought the beer or ticket... and I'll know whether I like what I hear. How relevant that is to the situation or whether they welcome comment doesn't really matter. I'm no harder on anyone else than I am in my own bands.

A lot of overthinking going on here... Set up your instruments and play at a reasonable and loudish volume for the place you are playing in. If this doesn't work... start a drum pattern, and play bass to it- pick a straight chugging pattern, and then layer the other instruments and I'll bet that if yoiu have mix poroblems, the one instrument that will blow the mix is the gtr. his chugging will totally dominate everything else and most importantly you wont hear the bass. That is the problem you fix. With keys, you just pick a part that you both play similar and see if the keys take over...that is the part you fix. The you turn up the vocals until you hear them..and then try and get them as half as loud again. Sorted, should take 5 mins. Then you tape your gigs and if the mixes onto something simple like Zoom device are also blown...go back to the drawing borad and retrain them.

I hear everything but you have to stream some stuff off............ I never take in lyrics but I hear the pitch of the vox. I also know what I am listening for and in what style... but I really zone into the drums..but if something else is off I'll hear it.

T o me, if you sit in the mix and can't hear yourself then that mix is wrong. IT isn't so much a question of level, it is about hearing your bass and how the band mixes its entire sonic space. If you are go turning up everything, you'll balt the mix and be too loud anyway. It is a fight no one really wins as even if they can hear themselves, the band sound awful. You want to layer the instruments not crash them thru a wall of sound.

[quote name='gillento' timestamp='1435656310' post='2810947'] I am playing my 4ohm db212 for years and I have never blown the HF (usually at +- 75%) ..... but when my db750 blew up, it broke one of the 12" drivers! [/quote] I think I have a spare Aguilar12 ..never even unboxed. Not sure of the impedence

I have an old bass and an amp that happened to be owned by Paul Turner. The bass took a convoluted path, but he recognised it, but the amp came direct. He has good taste in gear.

To answer the OP... they stop as he was so very integral. Never my kind of thing, but now is not the time for that. I don't see how they can replace him, tbh

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1435604318' post='2810535'] Here's a story; A few weeks ago my band added a Sunday afternoon bar gig at a questionable bar ( wrong side of the trcks and somebody was shot there a few months ago). And there was going to be a $5.00 ( we never charge a cover ). I told them I didn't think it was for us, however I was over ruled and we played the gig. Turned out to be a beautiful Sunday afternoon, 80 people showed up and we collected 5 bucks from every single person which was all ours the bar got the booze sales and they killed on booze. My point, [i]"You Never Know"[/i] Me, I just don't see myself getting [i]"uppity"[/i] about any gigs at this stage in the game ( close to 50 years ). As long as we get our $100.00 a man minimum. Blue [/quote] My rule is not to gig a place I wouldn't go to as a punter... call me picky, I guess.

I could watch it...as far as I can ever watch the Who, and I thought Pino P and Zak Starkey did well on the gig. Worth their slot, ...didn't rate Weller too much but the King was Lionel. But back to the Who...the thing I find most disturbing is Townsend not the music so much. If you have been around as long as they have, you expect the miles to show a little and they do well to keep them down.

I have 2 retro deluxes and I find them very good. I don't actually want them to change the sound too much so I try and just pump up the passive sound a tad. I like to run the basses active and passive so I'm not looking for extreme tone shaping which you could do with +- 12db on tap. I basically use them to tweak onboard as I've down the core sound on the amp so I can keep twiddling to a minimum as with all these thing you could get quite a few totally unusable sounds out of them...and this applies to amps as well, of course, so I try and keep the 'activeness' as transparent or low key as I can...so they are used as just a livener, imo.

Since it couldn't be too long distance, that would rule out the U.S guys. a true custom instrument is built for YOU, IMO, so you'd be making quite a few visits to fine tune. So my decision would be £3k for Martin Petersen to build me exactly what I wanted...or go with an Avella second-hand which would be 'stock'

I usually need mine to run at around 50%... or a bit more.. What were you running yours at..? Didn't think they were Fostex..but may be wrong.

Good to see this thread back. Hopefully this will help make 'Cabs' worth visiting again.

I really really try and avoid these gigs in the first place... I don't see the point of doing them and if caught will only be caught once. We try and do our homework first and foremost and ask very pertinent questions of the gig. But assuming we did all that and still stuffed up, we'd try and enjoy ourselves and take any positives out of it we can.. This is the reason why the driver of choosing the set is that it is short (2x45's) and we don't do songs we don't want to do.. so we wont be there for ages, and we play stuff we like. If I'm standing there thinking WTF am I doing here, that is very dodgy ground to be on and pretty much the beginning of a deathknell..IMO.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1435472945' post='2809009'] Hmm.. I was an early Acoustic Image adopter (for the UK at least) and I recall that having the same lack of backbone that I've experienced with the other heads I've used. The TC was - IMO - dreadful (and I'm sure that uses a B&O derivative?). Markbass I've never got on with, and the only Aguilar head I've used was the AG500 which I liked immediately. but then again it has a lump'o'iron power supply even though it's class D. [/quote] This is the reason I keep a big block and wheel it out when I can..or the gig requires it. I have a TH and TKS rig which sounds great but I've not gigged it yet.... For some stange reason, A TF550-B handles most gigs power-wise but I suspect a TH may not and this was my thinking with Markbass rigs when I demo'd a few. It was definitely a case of using it as it was light rather than because it was the sound I wanted. Defo somethging lacking was my over riding thought. I've done ok with a TC head but not gigged one. I'd guess that would come up short as well as far as i am concerned so not even tempted to take it out beyond a demo. Over this last year, the only two rigs I've played through and would get excited about playing thru have been Aguilar DB and Eden WT with DB and XLT cabs respectively. I own one of them so didn't buy the other.

I think her problem is that her voice is very distinct and for me, not good or interesting enough to be able to listen to two songs. The first one sees you off.. I recall a music pub playing her whole CD whilst we were setting up so I was hardly listening, but it drove me mad. Very much an aquired taste... and not for me.

Just turned over to check them out. Never a fan and on that showing never will be.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1435326544' post='2807747'] Good question! Having had all the "experts" convince us that lightweight Class D is the way to go, they are now all saying that the only way to get proper "heft/slam/thump/(insert adjective here)" is to go back to bulky, heavy amps with big manly transformers in them... I knew I should have kept my old Trace Elliot gear! [/quote] Hmm experts huh..?? Never been convinced by class D or NEO for that matter... IME, you might get away with one OR the other, but the worst case would be to have both. Sure, some people use them and do ok enough but they'll be a compromise made over the sound, IMO.

Check out the Baers here as a 2x112 option... you could run them with either a TH500 or the DB750.