JTUK

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1477307572' post='3161206'] Some people really can just pickup and play anything as long as the setup isn't tottaly stupid so to say. Some people are not as sensitive. A bit like people who can play any neck size or radius fingerboard. Also some people can still get a decent sound out of ancient strings. I myself could of easily said bass first too. But I choose cab. Anyhow regardless of bass, amp or cab DONT FLATWOUNDS MAKE US ALL SOUND THE SAME!?..... ;D I'm joking btw [/quote] I'm very senstive to the feel of the bass... not sure that is a good thing or bad thing, but it is the way it is, for me. So..I can't do what I do on any old bass with a variable set-up. Sure, I could cover a 'gig' but I'd hate it being stymied so much .... It wouldn't be worth doing for me...

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1477308402' post='3161215'] I suspect I'm one of the militant ones - if you use backing tracks it's simply a type of Karaoke IMHO.. Or playing along to stuff on the radio :-) [/quote] I think it is context. A friend on mine writes panto scores and if the company has 11 shows... the music will not be a full band on every show, there is not the budget for that. So, he'll put a live drummer in...and play keys and also run a track for everything else. For a function band..there are two schools of thought, IMO.. class act who want to maximise the split of the fee... but are such a good band that you know they'd be able to cover it otherwise..and the other one..which I think will be a struggle, is because a guy wants to thicken up the band sound... but he hasn't really thought it thru as to how well people can play to track and how you are going to monitor it. I'd be tempted to stay away from potential train-wrecks like this. The number of drummers who can play to a click REALLY well... is very few. Staying in time with it is the least of your problems... Even drummers who have made a very good living at playing to click... will talk you out of it

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1477305842' post='3161187'] I did say both, as you quoted. Mikel said above, that without a rehearsal he wouldn't want to play a song to a paying audience, unless it was easy like a twelve bar. Some experienced players could play more than a twelve bar without a rehearsal. My point was, busking tunes on a gig is using your ears as well. Many do it all the time. Now, that might mean years of playing experience has helped in remembering many tunes, or they have good relative pitch, or a combination of both. To me that is playing by ear. But like you said, that is just my opinion. [/quote] I'd go with this. You get booked and you get introduced to the band at the gig. You need to be able to COVER it...the band needs to know you CAN cover it. The BL might be in the swing of things and going through a lot of 'standards' but they are only standards if you've been there before. There may be all sorts of signals where he points to the head and he has just concocted a medley as he has read the audience and wants to get them on track ...he'll give you 3 down as the key (usually just holding his hand behind his back) so you better know where that key and change is. Some people can do this ALL by ear without knowing what on earth is going on...but those with such perfect pitch are very rare, IME... so most people just use those as clues/prompts and can hear changes..but they have to know the chord note in the first place. This is relative pitch which is a very good skill to have/learn. IMO. I'd say playing by ear is knowing the song in your head, but you've never played it..or not in that key..you just know it.and you also know there is a section that requires changes. You should be able to hear intervals like 2 tones down for example..and you should know turnarounds. So, with a bit of a jazz background, because these are mostly jazz situations that get you started and most gigs are like this, you'll be able to deal with 70% of the set straight off. You have a WIDE repetiore, know styles and a few time sigs, and you can make a go of latin, reggae etc etc without throwing the whole band out. You can then solo over a few basic changes. This, to me, is a solid by-ear player. who has enough theory to busk that without anyone thinking he is out of his depth. If you can read charts as well, all the better but the BL needs both because he may not have time to give out charts all night or direct you to them without breaking the flow too much..so he'll chop and change it. To do this gig, you need ' great ears'.as this is way beyond a few 12 bars.

[quote name='steantval' timestamp='1477297350' post='3161105'] Whatever the equipment, it's only as good as the person playing through it. [/quote] Which is why the answer should be the bass..because that is your initial connection between and being heard. The bass set-up is very personal to me..and I wouldn't bother with a lot of people's basses...which is funny because when they play mine, they really like it... but in terms of set-up they are miles apart. I'm thinking why don't they work on the set-up... but they seem to accept them straight out of the box with the same strings from yester-year..and they don't even know what strings they are..?? I don't get this ..??

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1477258050' post='3160984'] So we gave our drummer the Spanish archer and now his replacement has bailed out due to stress and depression. We're in a bit of a mess...two gigs in November (Phoenix, High Wycombe and Fighting Cocks, Kingston); need a dep. Anyone care to loan us their drummer for a couple of weekends? Punky rocky. Easy material. 45 minute set. [/quote] If you can pay..the world is your lobster.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477258726' post='3160989'] I really don't agree with this. I've heard people sing Beatles tunes while strumming an acoustic guitar. No bass, no drums, no lead guitar, no three/four part vocal harmonies... [/quote] Sure..you have to KNOW what you can cover and how... a solo acoustic and vox will be lot more adept at this than most 3 piece bands.... which is kind of bourne out by the fact that they wont/don't use bands because they add so little for the money. Sometimes, it is enough the get the essense of the song and great songs makes this easier, but you need to know where the line is. I've sat in some rehearsals recently and questioned that bands desire to do such a song...exactly because they couldn't pull it off. This is typical territory for a lot of bands..play the song you love rather than can do it justice. Suffice to say they accepted the singer's explanation that he was comfortable singing a vocal part..when he plainly wasn't and it sounded awful- (to me) I turned down the date as it happens but it wouldn't hurt if the bar was a bit higher..or better still, just be brutal with the dead wood.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477254057' post='3160936'] Parts missing? What does this even mean? I thought we were playing modern pop and rock songs, not orchestral movements! Some people are way too precious. [/quote] But a lot of 3 piece bands will have to accept some sounds or parts they can't cover... and that is before you get into the limitation on top of limitations.. The best 3 piece bands round here have limited sets... but because of the guys in it, aren't that limited as bands. They will be very capable RnB/blues outfits and know exactly what they can carry off... they wont play the track otherwise But you need very capable/imaginative musicians to make certain tracks work if you are missing keys for example...

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1477250609' post='3160891'] sh*t! I didn't realise you had actually seen us So, I guess we are a bit crap anyway so why worry about the sound...............is that what you mean? [/quote] No, not really, I'd not like any band that sounded bad, but the nature of these gigs are that they are a compromise...and if you are talking pubs then most are the opposite of suitable for music anyway. Personally, I can live with a vox only P.A if most other basses are covered, I'm just not going to stress over a lot of the other stuff for diminishing returns. Depends on how far below a certain threshold tho.

Bass, no question.

Ok, you have a mix you thinks work....(maybe)... but you can't hear it at the back so you are guessing.... You know where this is heading. You have limited instrumentation and you pick tracks that have a good few parts missing..or the lead singer isn't actually very good and can't sing the song. For example, I could recall 10 bands I've seen recently, how many have a good, let along great vocal?? so it is also a factor about how good the band sounds. Where do you draw the line here?

I did this on a GS -which uses the same chassis, as it happens, ...on the DB cabs, they load from the front, I think. Is there not a little felt pull on the front near the bottom...? I think the fronts leaver off... but don't want to suggest you start hacking away with a screw driver

Yep, but do you want to do that all for £60 or whatever...some will, some wont. How far do you want to go down the route of doing things that way... I can imagine some will pipe up and say the word 'professional' and then they take out a 3 piece band

[quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1477028082' post='3159300'] Our guitar man couldn't do band practice yesterday. So with Bass, Keys, Sax, Drums and vox we sounded lovely - well i thought so. I could actually hear what Mr Keys was doing plus bass sounded great in a bit more space. Excellent, happy to do more without guitar. [/quote] Tell him all that..

If the end result is good, you aren't doing too much wrong in that scheme of things. Whether this is sustainable in the next band is another thing. If you wonder why you don't get gigs then maybe start here, if you you don't then not a lot to worry about.

I'd have wanted to turn round right there...if the pub isn't committed to live music then I've got better things to waste time on and playing to an empty pub is not one of them. And I'd fully expect the band to back that up by not playing there again..or other places like it.

Not for me... part of being a band is just doing it. I'd be wanting to see what it 'adds' tho.... and how the band could deliver it. If there is a reason for a second gtr part, get a second gtr in. I'd be interested to see how this conversation goes and what it achieves...

If the acoustic kit sounds poor, then good luck mic'ing that. Don't use a drummer who can't tune his kit. There is no reason for it.

Mute... I expect him to know and deal with his gtr being in tune. I'd hate it more if he sounded out of tune

[quote name='nash' timestamp='1477045325' post='3159423'] [b]I think what I'm getting at is that it's pointless having a grunty ampeg for example if it's not your tone for FOH.[/b] All my tone, amp and FOH comes from my board. Or will once I get another preamp pedal. [/quote] Why wouldn't it be..? Talk to the engrs, tell them what you want. Chances are you've paid for them/hired them, they work for you. At the very least they should be working to get the best out of your set. If they can't do that, why are you using them...?

They have to ok those dates with you..?

You have to have pretty close agreed..and adherred to..parameters or it isn't going to end well. Good Comms is the biggest thing to making it easy. Get it done well or don't bother would be my take on it so I'm not likely to work with anyone not on that page... Everyone has a bigger call, but just don't mess anyone around any more than you have to..and then those one off disasters are likely survivable

hmmmm So he is not playing with you... how on earth does that work..?

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1476944793' post='3158619'] Singer - The vocals are a bit too high for me. Me - We can change the key. Singer - No need, I'll just sing it a bit higher. Me - What? Like, out of tune. [/quote] Yep.... can't reach those notes... but the singer is sure he is comfortable....wtf was he hearing? It wasn't my gig so I didn't make an issue of it but that tells you everything.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1476928796' post='3158603'] Good discussion guys. Thanks In conclusion, I am just down. I've been doing this with passion since 1966. I don't want much just a little more after all these years. And I'm sure there are a few others here in the same boat. Blue [/quote] It is what drives us on...that better gig.

Nope, I take them both as only have two now. I will use the Fender if the gig is turned down a semi which a pretty regular dep is. Also a couple of singers like eb so that makes sense to have it to hand. Otherwise standard tuning and it depends what I hear in soundcheck...