JTUK

Years and years of trying stuff and refining things. Of course, my early stuff was c@rp, but I'm pretty happy where I am now and still things, like style and technique, constantly change. The sound tends to change/evolve/refine depending on what I'm listening to. Onwards and onwards.

Not to that extent...I look after them and service them regularly... but I don't mind a ding if accumulated during putting them to work, but that doesn't mean I want some p*** taking liberties, so I don't let anyone bar people I feel I can vouch for, play them... and by invite only.

[quote name='gillento' timestamp='1477717039' post='3164002'] So a TKS S212 does sound like a close option to the mighty db212? .... just making sure I got this right [/quote] On the basis that I think 2 s112's sound quite close to the DB212, I'd be thinking the TKS212 would stand a chance to be closer. I'd be thinking the 212 blooms a tad more by virtue of the combined internal area. The DB212 has 410 type dims whereas the TKS is taller and therefore less deep.? E-mail to TKS about the differences between 2x112 and their 212 would be my next move.. I'm glad I don't have to choose between the DB212 and the TKS 2x112's but if I did...?? the DB212 on sound.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1477675943' post='3163840'] Depends on the community, here your not going to meet other musicians with work at open mics. Working musicians don't attend these open to the public open mics. It's strictly a 'newbie" scene. Blue [/quote] Working musicians run them and get paid here .... which is why they are on mondays or tues, and nowhere near the weekend The house-band gets paid.

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1477667509' post='3163758'] so true - I was in a covers band and we had a guitarist once who somehow never quite managed to learn any of the songs that anybody else suggested well enough to play at rehearsals, so why don't we work on the ones he suggested as he can play all of those... [/quote] Classic

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1477668455' post='3163768'] The drummer and myself are always having a bit of a laugh on stage. It's a good relationship and he's a good enough player for me to know that if he messes up, it's not a regular thing so, we have a giggle. The audience will hardly notice if at all, he'll then try and throw in something I'm not expecting and then I'll grab hold of his crash as he hits it. A lot of the time (as long as your playing is generally good and on the mark) the band enjoying themselves on stage is as important to the performance as the quality of the music. All about being flexible. [/quote] I agree with that.... I just don't know why timing issues are an option in a drummer.

Use to know a drummer a very long time ago who used to sing the song to know where he was...and it worked well for him, but I never understood why he never counted the bars.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477656780' post='3163618'] But you're only as strong as your weakest link. If the drummer has lost it and you've noticed then it's unlikely you're playing with a real solid guy who is likely to adjust back. I've played with drummers who are convinced that they're the time keeper of the band and everyone should follow them. They start every tune with 4 stick clicks. It's not always apparent you're playing with this type of drummer for a while, for various reasons. It wasn't until I started playing with other bands and depping that Inrealised how bad the drummer I was playing with was. Even worse he was blaming all the problems on me and I was losing confidence. It wasn't fun playing with him, it was more like a war. There may be some very experienced players here and a few pros who can recognise this sort of behaviour straight away.[b] I'd challenge them to continue playing out of time with a drummer right to the end of a tune because he's convinced everyone else in the band is wrong.[/b] Ultimately you can never win and leaving is the only option, then watch the band struggle as they go through a string of bass players. Drums and bass lock in together. All the other instruments can shift easily around the beat and it makes no difference to the song. All the micro-timing is absorbed. But if the bass and drums are not locked in you have a real problem. It's all very well saying sack the drummer, but you can't do that mid gig or if you have a string of gigs lined up. [/quote] I am often amazed at the drummers people will put up with. I'll see this in dep gigs as I wouldn't come across them otherwise, tbh. I have come to the conclusion that I am very susceptible to time..so in turn, my time is very good, IMO, but I can't drag someone too far..and neither should I have to. A recent experience had a drummer that used to come in on sections of a song at a completely different tempo to the tempo he start the song at..so in effect they could have been different songs. Funnily enough his time during THAT sequence was way more solid which made the different tempo's most baffling... He even knew he did it as well...!!!!!!!!! THAT was very hard work and I didn't stick around. As for time, I don't have to watch a drummer, if he is on our gigs, time is just not an issue so the 1 will be on the 1. I don't know why that is even a discussion.

Of course, I could play them solo. I don't leave structure to be cued by anyone else unless that part is specifically written in as a vocal queue, for example, which you might have for band introductions or audience participation etc etc. Having said that, I do have an outfit that is very free, well, 3 of them actually . Half the time I have no idea what the set is, so numbers and keys and grooves are thrown in on the spot. This only works if the band really knows what they are doing. In this case the bandleader calls all the tunes..as he will sing them (and it is his set for that reason) If we do instrumentals ( like 'Pump' for example,) then a song might be adopted if we all like it and it works. By that time, we've gigged it already so it is a bit late to find that out In these band, everyone is playing off each other and you need pick up the cues as there is never a rehearsal.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1477506362' post='3162699'] Guitarists and blues harp players around here.In many cases bass is not open for outsiders. Blue [/quote] Earning on a down night for venue and musician running it. I'm not keen if the deal is 12 bar, tbh.. so it really depends WHO runs it and who they get to support it. The better ones are for guys looking for a few dates and just to show your face that you are available. It is important to have a decent mix but the starter guys can't be allowed to bog down the evening...as nobody will come and listen and the 'night' has no real long term appeal. This is why you pay the core band and introduce new people sparingly. You can afford one train wreck, but not more than that, IMO.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1477577384' post='3163121'] Well I'm very tempted to start ranting about the bassists I have to put up with, but I won't in terms of mistakes live though,[b] I don't think I've ever actually dropped/missed a beat. Sure I've missed hitting an actual drum or something, but that doesn't effect the timing of the song at all. Sometimes if I'm distracted, I might hit something out of time, [/b]but it's easily ignored, it doesn't upset the groove we're all playing to. I play with 3 different bassists, they all occasionally make mistakes, but they always get back on track with me. [/quote] Same thing to me...it is not where it should be, so it totally messes up the groove. There is no arbitary 1... 1 is 1 and so on. These things don't float, so that would bug the hell out of me. Same as whimpy entries... emphatic no nonsense hits for me please.

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1477498410' post='3162623'] The client has usually booked the Motown band because they want to hear reasonably faithful renditions of classic pop songs that they know and love. We have some really great singers we use who have brilliant energy and stage presence and know how to whip the crowd up. If the client can't afford for us to bring the keys player, horn section and extra singers, we can still do the gig with guitar, bass, drums and two singers. We all prefer to at least have live keys and sax, and the gigs with three singers and three piece horn section are the most fun. We aren't setting their budget though. If we couldn't scale the gig to cater to it, we'd have a lot less work in the book. When I say "playing what the punters want to hear", I certain don't mean they pick and choose the set list, but every function band is providing a service and doing a job. You are there to fill the dancefloor and entertain the guests, not to serve yourself. The OP was talking about a working function band and in my experience the use of tracks to fill out additional keys, horns, electronics etc is not at all uncommon. Your situation is different JT - you aren't depending on this, so you are free to insist on your particularly specific criteria to play a gig, but for working pros it's a different game. I'd suggest that in this case, whilst it might be a new experience for the OP, I'd go in to it with an open mind and give it a go. If done properly it can result in a massive, slick and professional sound. [/quote] No, you are right, I'm not, but the others would be so if order for me to drag them off or compete with good gigs I have to get a few things right. However, the set isn't one of them, it is what it is and people/clients will know that before hand. But I do maintain that doing things this way, the standard is high and the evening will work. If I don't think the band will hit the spot, I can offer the gig out to one or two other bands that I'll recommend. It is debatable which position you want to be in tho... free to choose or take the money, but that is another thread..and there have been many.

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1477427031' post='3162212'] The Motown band I play with use tracks - it means we can go out as anything from a five piece to a ten piece and still play the same set - I'd prefer to always have at least six or seven of us, but if the client doesn't have the budget for that, [b]would you rather stick by your "artistic integrity" of your working covers band (a concept I struggle to understand - you're playing what punters want to hear and are there to do a job, its not your magnum opus you're creating) [/b]but not be able to afford to fill your fridge that week? I'd rather stick the horns on playback for the night and pay the bills, if that's quite alright with you lot? [/quote] Generally I would be thinking I'd advise the client on the best course which is to do it our way. So altho budget is a BIG consideration, playing what the punters wants to hear is not. The reason we'd be having the conversation with the client is because they want what we do so they don't get to call the set. If they want that, get someone else. If the band wanted to money that badly, they may need to consider throwing in a few numbers but mostly they don't. Yes, this does cost gigs.

I'll babysit if it gets to the South East

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1477395165' post='3161910'] So... the OP changed from a 500W AG500 to a 1500W SM1500 and felt more "heft"? And people are saying is due to the toroidal transformer? And the extra headroom from having 3 times the power output doesn't play a part here? In that case my class-D Shuttle 9.2 is more "heftier" then the toroidal equipped 15W TE Boxer combo i have or the 280W GK RB400iv i had... We shouldn't mix things, we all know that a 500W toroidal amp, compared to a 500W SMPS, has more sub-lows (great for those who like it, i'm very happy without a muddy stage sound) and the greater the power output of an amp more headroom is available. So what's the news about the SM1500 sounding better? Even the SM900 would beat the c**p out of the Aggie. [b]The SM400 would be a better comparison, both in the same muscle rank, the tone would be decisive factor [/b]there. [/quote] Nope.... the SM400 outclasses the TH500 in every respect IMO.. and I've owned both and I'm also a fan of the way Aguilar do things. I'm just not sure the TH is up there with rest of their stable. Probably me, tho

Technical difference.?? less space between frets so some things can be a bit tight and the little finger gets squeezed out of a few runs. But you only play up there because you hear the sounds and licks that you want. There is no compulsion altho I'd be thinking a large part of bass playing is no longer available to you if you don't/can't ever get there. As part of my style, I'd think I'm up and beyond the 12th every number, pretty much, for some lick.

Before writing out 40 songs worth of notes...make sure you are going to use them again otherwise you might want to charge for that time. As it happens this is a standard set so a good set of notes should last a lot of gigs. For speed, the vast majority of them, you can busk if you have a decent ear that can hear intervals. That way you could breeze a few charts with just Verse, Chorus, Bridge etc etc . Use standard musical notation symbols for repeats etc but you are going to have to chalk this one up to experience as they probably aren't paying you enough for the work involved, ie, for all the groundwork you have to do. That is ok.. you need to get started somewhere. What is useful, if you don't know the band, is to ask for a pad... if they are sorted and more formal, they'll have one, if they aren't, they wont but in this case that is likely to work in your favour. You might also want to hear a recording of the band to see how they cope with tracks...and any idiosyncrasies they may have..? You may well be heartened or scared crapless about the compentence of the band and what you are getting yourself involved in,.... Understand this gig date may have passed for the OP..but decent enough info generally, IMO.

His Right hand is consistent, of course, his left hand pretty flat and not animated as he frets with a closed left hand a lot..hene it moving around a LOT. NO biggie..Will Lee does this to great effect I'd not suggest you ape this technique completely but switch between say, Jaco's take with left hand mute, which means he is damping with the fretting fingers. This is basically a lift off of the fret and not difficult in itself but is lends it self to a far more fluid line, whereas RP's are much more stilted IMV. Once you can get RH playing solid 16th's, that is where you start....you can then lift off the note as and when

Laugh... it is going to be such a rare occasion that you can't legislate for it. If this is not one in a gazillion, then change the drummer.

Playing standards is not memory if you've never played it before or the key has changed. Standards mean typical set.... Not that you know them all. Simple case of point of playing by ear. Born to run... Have heard before, but never listened to it... One play thru and although it jumps about a bit.. All the changes are obvious and you should be able to play it live at a gig... And you also have get the drums and his take on it in bar 1. And no one should be any the wiser that this is a first take. Any by-ear/dep/call it what you will player worth his salt would be able make that sort of song work pretty quickly and the end result be the equal of a lot of bands efforts. At least. I'd call those songs good busking/no pad required types

But the guys who can do this well are very tight... They don't asked to do these gigs if they can't carry this off.

The spec of SM amps was always considered high or OTT. That is one reason I still have the SM400 dating around 1990. I do have a class D amp..and it is pretty good but it can't complete with my big block of Iron. Have I tried them all..no..just the popular ones that top out at around £600 so typically what appears here quite a lot but I'm not aware of any game changers as yet

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1477252258' post='3160910'] It's also a very closed minded forum of mostly wannabees. Not a fan. Blue [/quote] I haven't spent much time over there but I suspect most forums talk a better game than they play... but yes, maybe the Americans ones are a bit more 'intense' I find you need to be here for a few years to get to know who knows what they are talking about...or rather-because we all have opinions, have formed those opinions through experience rather than reading about it.. This is why, my feeling is, get out and do it..and make the same mistakes that everyone else does in the formative years. The trick is what you learn from that, IMO.

The best two musicians I've played with have been drummers so they are not all bad. And one of them was such a stand-out. Always a pleasure if he is on the gig. But by the same token, I do have loads of drummer stories as well...

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1477311423' post='3161260'] Not sure how this has turned into a Class D debate. I would really, really love to do a blind hearing test on some of you lot.... [/quote] Of course it was always going to... the Thread title points it that way as class D is an option in many amps available today and the OP was saying his amp is the best. And the SM1500 was one hell of an amp..all the SM's were upto a certain period. They don't make them like they used to