JTUK

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453833491' post='2963271'] None the less,the original question was 'Why such powerful amps..?', to which some have replied that they only use one amp, big enough for the 'backline only' gigs, and the same rig, turned down if necessary, for any FOH gigs. Seems reasonable to me. [/quote] Yep.. ',the original question was 'Why such powerful amps.?'

Can be quite frustrating here... if people don't know something they can and do ask...which is a good thing about this place.. they'll get a variety of answers but what they then do with 101 variations is for them to sort thru. They are lucky to have such a resource..most people on here who have been playing a long time found out those answer the hard way... hopefully, ... or not.. .

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1453727658' post='2962135'] I check the tech spec of the venue online. When you're sending in your stage plan and, it's reasonable to ask questions back surely ? I have a fly away gig in May, when asked the preferred bass amp, I suggested I'd be happy with the SVT an 8x10 they'll have anyway. [/quote] Again, it depends on the supply...as they'll often say 'or equivalent' And and SVT3 pro and Ashdown 810 isn't an equivalent.

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453727382' post='2962133'] So do you pull out of a gig if the pa has behringer wedges rather than db ones JTUK? Or do you not take the booking unless they supply you with the sound crew's number before hand? If the organiser hasn't even decided which company to give the job to that could be difficult. Turn up and do my best with what I'm given, if it's a crap fest we don't go back next time. [/quote] Difficult...which is why we tend to get involved in that stage...and why we cultivate companies and Engrs and we can direct them to people we know. It also has to depend on the budget... but if people are looking to supply an HK actor rig then we may just as well do it ourselves as there is no premium over what we could supply. We would tend to price it where we could 'pay' for our own or spec a minimum requirement but yes, some people are economical so you'll weigh up whether you'll do it again. For most cases, we've been involved at hire-in stage. I tend to research the type of gigs we go after--of this sort- so I know if they do things 'properly'.. It only takes a few gigs to know the score and decide you want as much input/control as possible if you are working with people who will pay. It is in noones interest to charge cheap and be caught out because you didn't ask questions. Event managers should know the client and let you know how they play things.. If the gig is for a bunch of bankers @ a Picadilly hotel you have to know the audience. The band may cost £1500 and think they are doing well, but the evening is costing the client thousands so you do it properly. Personally, I wouldn't use a P.A company myself with that level of gear you mention as I'd rather pay someone I know £250/300 to bring along their kit, which we know well...

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453674412' post='2961745'] Just what gigs is JTUK doing anyway? I'd be interested to see what sound engineers say to him when he phones up about their respective rigs? [/quote] Why wouldn't I..and they don't see it as a problem as they seem quite happy to tell me all about the rig.. but we've turned up for a beer festival and the P.A has run out of steam about 20 yrds for the stage and we find out the P.A 'company always does the gig as he only charges £150.. If you want to leave your name on that...good luck... but I think it reflects better if you tell people what IS required rather than let them guess...and play at it.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453673182' post='2961720'] Am I the only one that seemingly doesn't phone venues ahead of the gig to get the spec of the monitors?! Seriously? [/quote] I'll call them as the venue will likely have booked the P.A but we will have supplied a basic spec and stage plan. This is just basics. If outdoor we will want to know about power runs as well. Depends who is running the gig...they may not know about all this stuff so we've got involved. Any wedding in the garden with catering supplied will probably involve a genie.. So yes, after the power and stage etc etc ... you'll want to know what P.A is supplied and how many people are expected. Do you want the P.A to hit the back of the tent for a 1000 people etc.. It is no good booking a 16k P.A if it flattens the power...and the hire company might send that as it was already loaded back from another gig So after all that... asking about the monitoring is pretty small detail. It is all very well accepting a P.A is supplied but what P.A. If it is less than 6k..we could cobble together that anyway... but you still have to 'charge' £250 for that to the gig.. as that will involve a van etc etc .. Any for that, I know the bass isn't going anywhere near monitors...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1453671473' post='2961699'] I'll be here until I drop, thanks to my selective use of the 'turn off notifications ' button. I highly recommend it as a sanity preserver :-) [/quote] Yes... a MUST.. and I hardly want it broadcast at work either..

I just have the feeling that these cabs will sound good...

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1453667893' post='2961626'] i've left forums before after the topics and arguments become to samey and tedious. I wont be going anywhere yet, but i could leave the forum and not let it bother me [/quote] Yep.... altho I couldn't say when I'll get bored here.. could be anytime. I post less and there are only a few threads I bother with...so I can be done with the site in 5 mins.

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1453665961' post='2961604'] The PA system I was talking about originally was a Martin F1 System and the mixer was a venerable but still excellent Soundcraft Series 4. It was probably more capable of making me sound good than my amp was. I've had similar experiences with Classic Rock Society gigs where it's generally very good setups and the engineer asks that you keep backline to a minimum and he'll give you all you need through the monitors. Our keys player, like many, doesn't bring any backline. He's already taking what the engineer is giving him. [/quote] It is the monitors I'm concerned about, and if they are something like DB's then I'll know the rest is on par

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1453658717' post='2961496'] Literally every bass guitar I have ever spent time playing has had a dead spot to some extent - where one or two notes, usually on the G string between C and Eb, have slightly lesser sustain than the surrounding notes. That has included a couple of neck-through instruments too, one 32" scale and a couple with graphite neck reinforcements, USA and Japanese made instruments and a couple I built myself. If you're lucky, the pitch of the resonance falls in between two notes so that the effect is less strong - these are much easier to live with. If you're unlucky, it falls spot-on one of the notes. Listening carefully to the effected notes, it sounds like the fundamental dies away quickly leaving the harmonics above that ringing. I do think that they can be more noticeable with flatwounds, and neck relief also seems to have an effect. So I find the "Well, [i]my[/i] Fenders never have dead spots" response of some posters entertaining. I don't think I have unusually sensitive ears and nor have I had exceptionally bad basses, so the issue must be that we don't all identify or define "dead spots" in the same way. [/quote] Ok..I guess I just haven't found them or heard them.... which I'd also guess is very unlikely. Since I set up all my basses and one of the few things I'm anal about, I think I'd notice. So, it is a no from me. I am also one for natural sustain so set-up and string and good basic construction is key. But yes, I don't have bad basses or old strings either.

Strings wear out IMO... not so much where they break but I know when a set of rounds are shot.. and they just feel 'bad'... a few days later the sound will go..where they sound too clunky and I might waste my time cleaning them again but generally there are retired/binned. But no, I don't understand this prevalence of dead spots. All my basses are of a Fender design and I've never had them.

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1453646233' post='2961328'] That's probably the most valid point of the whole thread! Really, who gives a sh*t what they choose to bring to a gig as long as they can play and sound alright while doing it! [/quote] Quite.... but if you assume wrongly- ? FWIW... out of all the engrs I've come across recently, I can recall 2...!!!! that were good. The rest were ok downwards.. And if we are talking about a P.A being 2 115/18 bins and a couple of tops, then it is all pot luck.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1453590170' post='2960934'] Sad but true, a lot of audiences will look at a band using small 1x12s and dismiss them as not being the real thing - or at least that`s how it seems in some scenes. And the daft thing is - or at least I think it`s daft - is we have lots of headroom to produce super clean bass sounds, yet many of the classic basslines when listened to isolated are full of gain/clankiness. [/quote] On a big stage, 2x112 wont be enough but you hope you'll get that back from sidefills.. But also, on a big stage, you'll have crew so all you have to do is rig it as they've put it in place It is true that some players sounds are very very messy and need tidying up, but it helps it you don't give the engr that job to do..IMV. Same with bass sounds, I can get my sound up on the amp and stage in mins... which works for the engr as he is basically just concerned with level only. I'll then want a band mix in my monitor and I can make myself bigger in my little patch. The one thing that is a MUST..is that me and the drummer can play with each other..and by that, I mean, hear. Having a small rig on stage and having the monitors controlled outfront is fraught as you have to get a clear message to the Engr to turn something that he can't hear, up..?? Hmmm not the way I'd do it.

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1453638913' post='2961230'] Used mine last night. 2.5 hour gig at very large pub in Darwen, Lancs. Punchy when needed, smooth when needed. Worked very well with PUMA 500, Gramma pad and passive Fender P/J. Plenty of bottom end for me. According to wireless gaytartist, they sounded great, no dispersion, farting or volume issues. One of the great beauties is of course the lightness of these cabs. Despite this they feel really well made. Only "issue" for me is constantly thinking about a 1 box solution, just to save on trips per night. Whilst both cabs can easily be carried at the same time, there are still usually a lot of (punter blocked) doors to negotiate Never happy me , Victor Meldrew's mentor. [/quote] I'm always wary of any one small box one cab solution so it wouldn't be something I'd consider. As much as I really rate these boxes, I always always carry 2.

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453586659' post='2960909'] I played the Robin in bilston a while ago, best bass sound ever in my monitor, far better than the £2000 worth of my rig that wad barely doing anything behind me. My old function band had an EV pa, the tops and bins could pump out much more smooth fat bass than a backline bass amp even with a 8x10. [/quote] I ask what the spec is ...so I know what to take and if they haven't got a mon engr on stage, I take care of my stage sound. But the minimum you should KNOW is what mixes you have and what fills/monitors you are getting. If you just turn up and trust to luck..... you can hardly complain. The HUGE variable between engrs and kit make it a nonsense to assume all will be ok. IME.

Offering the fee isn't the problem though, is it?

Probably Naughty..if that is 80's... it will be close enough

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453578148' post='2960783'] Because they use much better quality speakers[/quote] Do you ask..and if they told you would you know what they were..??

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453577608' post='2960774'] Most bass player obsess over their £500 bass cabs yet the wedge infront of them is often far superior, a di box is all that is needed if there is a proper pa! [/quote] Is it... how do you know?

Depends if you know what the P.A is... and do you ever ask or just turn up and take what comes. Personally, I don't..I ask what we have and a call to the sound man will probably do. What types/quality on monitors do we have.. what does the rider say..and can they actually provide to that spec..? What is the stage size, hall size..? Soundmen always like a signal and no stage sound..that is THEIR preference but bands shouldn't be bullied to going with that if it messes up their gig as there is nothing on stage and nobody can hear anything else. If the drummer doesn't have a fill or hefty monitor, he wont likely hear your bass with a small combo... so the band will have no backbone and be playing WITH each other. The reason why Engrs don't want stuff coming off the stage is because they can't mix it..but others will use it and work with it IF the band knows how to use dynamics. I use a backline to deal with the stage volume..and it helps if you have a mon engr.. and the engr has to deal with out front. He can't dictate what I do ...and ask me to turn down, and 99% of the time he wont. I'm not oblivious to his needs and he shouldn't be to the bands needs on stage so the size of the stage and quality of the P.A dictates what I'll take.

But the band should make the call.... as it is just a good way to deal with people. I mention this because this same thing happened and the guy .. a local player, was expected to learn the set and he had to set aside time to do that as he wasn't a busker or a reader, (so a lot of work for him) and then after all that, on the day, the bass player made the gig after all... But yes, not very good form the band,... pretty poor actually, and oblivious to what was involved. I mean..who was doing who a favour..??

The other thing is to quote your fee and leave it with them. If they think they can get a party or wedding band for a fee that is significantly lower than yours, I say, go ahead and see what you get. Weddings are weddings.... the brides dress costs god knows want... as do all the other things that make it a special day, and you want to pay £600 for the band..???? OK, ..your call.

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1453118202' post='2956426'] I had an audition recently where I was 2nd of 2 bassists to be auditioned............. The next day they called me up to say they went with the other guy, as he was older than me (60s vs 30s) and he knew the material better (I had no issue with this bit). They did however have a reservation he wouldn't be committed, and asked me if i'd learn the setlist anyway just in case he didn't stay with them (!!!!). I was a little surprised by this request, would anyone else learn an entire bands setlist just in case you were 2nd choice in a few weeks or months ? I politely declined. [/quote] On these lines... If someone asks you to learn the set for a gig...you've got the gig. None of this stand-by stuff.... they pay you because they booked you. If the bass player makes it back from holiday in time and they want him to do the gig, that is ok..but they still pay you because you've put the time in and you have held the date.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1453549018' post='2960419'] just seen this [url="http://www.independent.co.uk/student/istudents/small-music-venues-in-the-uk-are-under-threat-and-we-need-to-do-something-drastic-about-it-a6825456.html"]http://www.independe...t-a6825456.html[/url] surely the real reason they're closing down is lack of people going to them, the youngsters today would rather be doing other stuff than watching new bands in small venues. Most of the audience these days seems to be middle age, which could explain why classic rock covers bands are on at all the local pubs and old bands and artists living on past glories are the most lucrative tours. Somebody once said Rock and Roll will never die, I'm not so sure [/quote] Yep.... altho I also say there are more venues putting on music and the 'free' aspect of going to see local bands means no one wants to pay for them.. 25 years ago my town had one venue and it was very good..the rest of the music was in country pubs. Those country pubs now do food and the town has 5 pubs upwards trying to put on music and 3 of them are very regular ... Most young players take their influence from the 60/70's and older players are stuck in the 80's as that works for the pub demographic. I don't entirely subscribe to the lack of venues thing as I know far more people making a 'living' thru music now than I everdid and quite a few of those wouldn't be thought to have the talent, but they do seem to have the wherewithall. So, I don't think it is all doom and gloom but I do think the biggest problem is getting people to pay for music.. Many players will convince themselves they were 'earning' the same amount 20 plus years ago than they can do today...I don't recall that, tbh.. Pub rates then would be £150 and now they are £250... but these are average rates and pubs are keen ..for their own reasons..to keep the rates down. It is tough, but I know they'll pay more... if the see fit, but they aren't telling everyone. For example, If I've asked for a rate...the pub will know it is higher than he normally pays, but they'll say, ok, but don't mention it to anyone else...?? I wonder who else they say that too... since the accepted norm for guys I know... is £70 a skull, as the local term goes..!!! That is £280-350 for a 4 or 5 piece and sometimes these bands have 6 or 7 on it.. But then again, I know plenty of bands who play for £200..because that is what the booker tells them the gig is worth... This is why I like to talk about rates as then you know what is out there..and the market can sustain. I'll also know a few bands that do pubs for £400 plus... but they might be in on the food deal..meal plus band for £20 per head... or they are a very very good draw and sure thing. I'd call the local music scene..in the county, vibrant and good. And this is why plenty of very good players will show up from time to time.