JTUK

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1453498053' post='2960164'] I don't know, TBH. That's why it would be interesting! I do wonder how big a factor expectation bias is though. [/quote] Not sure... I've played thru a lot of class D and lightweight amps and the only one I bought was a TH500 and that was more because I swapped it (plus cash to me) for an amp I'd 'tired' of. I knew straight away that the trade had compromises and in a way I regretted it... but it also led me to my current D amp (I have 3 amps... 2 are trad and 1 is class d.. If I could only have one amp..I wouldn't keep the class D. Do I think I always knew about the class D thing...no, not really, not at first, but I never bought one until relatively recently and the reason for that is that I wasn't convinced but could indulge in a lightweight option ...but I've also always referred to it as the B rig.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1453496654' post='2960145'] It would be an interesting experiment to glue a couple of housebricks inside a 2u rack case with a bog-standard ICEpower module to see whether bass players coo over the "heft" of the sound! [/quote] Would you expect them to..?

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1453494936' post='2960122'] Money crops up in at least one post per page of this thread. The whole thread was started on the basis of how much to charge for playing a party and a difference of opinion within the band. Are you trying to get a rise out of me or something? [/quote] No, I just wondered what money you were thinking about? Money always comes into it...and I believe it always should, but it will anyway simply because it is there in the equation. I don't much mind, myself, if people don't want it.... but almost everyone I know and play will factor it in somewhere. I'm also of the opinion that if a band doesn't generate money, they are doing something wrong...outside of charities and good causes etc... Is there a degree of competition in it..I don't doubt that either I don't know many musicians who don't have ego either... whether they wear it openly of heavily disguise but I suspect it is there somewhere. Just for the record...and Beedster is from the same neck of the woods, pubs will pay £350 for the right band. They wont offer it everywhere, to everyone, of course, but I've known in the last few years bands get over £1000 in a pub round here. Those pubs had to charge door price though and it is probably (hopefully) the way the better music pubs will go. Of course, only a few pubs could do that.... but it is also the reason why I'd like pubs to be so much more professional about their music...and why I don't see the value of undercutting the general pay rates of the local scene.. And this is not just me either...

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1453489843' post='2960048'] The money figures being bandied about in the thread recently don't bear any resemblance to my experience. [/quote] which money?

I'd say someone would get a great set-up for £800.... but like all these things???

If he wanted to receive a certain fgure he should have quoted the price in his currency... then you'd have to have paid enough £'s and charges to achieve that.

Agree... ( I think cheap booze from a supermarket always was a bad idea..). but everyone harps on about the heyday pub around here of 20 years plus ago... but there was only one of them so the standard of band was high because bands would travel an hr to play it. Now the same town can have 9 bands on...or that is the worst number I've counted on a saturday night.. so that will dilute those music goers. And to fill those nights, all a pub has to do is event it. No license, nothing..all on a whim. Of course, some bands will be playing that maybe shouldn't or couldn't get a gig, but these venues encourage them and then more pubs might look at them. So the criteria is now, numbers, not quality.... and peanuts and monkees does apply, but the LL is also now faced with an iffy act for £180 and take waht punters he gets, or a much better band at £350... which he is nervous about. My solution is to go in at £250 and you want that £100 bonus IF you earn it.. but you have to trust the LL to be straight. Or just play the places that know the value of a £350 band and keep the standard and criteria high. On the other hand... pubs want to pay £100 and give you 10% of the bar bill... I'm all for weeding out the chancers...be they bands or Pub landlords.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1453414661' post='2959416'] Think you`re right there JT, but still think it`s good to see manufacturers putting out small lightweight Class D amps so that us lesser abled mortals can have the brands/sounds we like, in a package we can carry. I don`t think any of the Class D amps are really ground-breaking in comparison to the bigger models of the same brands that they`re based on, what is/was ground-breaking is amps that are light and portable. Sure some of the sound is sacrificed but I really don`t know how I`d get on playing bass without these small lightweight amps. [/quote] I get that, Lozz...and it applies to cabs and basses as well, I think. I run a lightweight option myself and I'd have to say the Demeter is my sort of compromise... but it wasn't the cheapest.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1453476745' post='2959852'] I can see your point but I think that the issue is that in a very competitive live music scene, some very amateurish bands play for free or next to nothing and undercut much better bands that expect to be paid the going rate. All of this is against a background of pubs struggling to keep afloat and fewer opportunities for new bands. As a result, punters get a poor experience and don't come again, possibly being put off the idea of watching live music and landlords stop putting bands on and go around telling other landlords that live music is a waste of time. However, pubs that do their homework and book the right bands for the going rate still seem to be reasonable busy. But the market is being undermined by rubbish bands and naive landlords...! [/quote] And too many of them...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1453462946' post='2959680'] From my perspective, it's not so much a 'heft' thing (Gaaah! I said it!) - it's more backbone. The transients, and the low mids. As an aside, it was pretty lonely in the 'There's something not quite right about the Class D' camp for a while, but there's a fair few people in here now. Maybe in a couple of generations time we'll have something at consumer level that can compete with traditional power amps. We'll see. [/quote] For me, I was running Thunderfunk when everyone was going Markbass. There is no way MB gets there IMO, but call it a one-off as far as comparison goes. Even when TC made their bid, the sound was there ..in a fashion, but it was still plastic. Unless you were running class D as well, you'd not have picked it up too soon apart from 'whats' different'... I have a designer friend who has looked into class D for gtrs.... and they couldn't/wouldn't get involved in something that might have dodgy figures or marketing.. so they've gone proper back end. Now, what you will see is everyone joins in on Class D from a marketing POV, when a lot of people know the horse has already bolted. These companies have belatedly seen the market sway and pitched in... but it is just more of the same. I've not come across a decent Class D..relatively speaking..for less than a £1k and I'm not seeing anyone making anything different below that.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1453466949' post='2959739'] And I would imagine that these days a lot of PAs are powered by class D amps... [/quote] Nope... not seen many.. only Meyer, iirc. Otherwise it is baltic ply and Heavy amp racks. EAW, Nexo, Martin etc ..in a different league completely and tbh, most riders wouldn't bid down to HK etc...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1453466680' post='2959736'] EBS_freak has posted this pic of the new Darkglass cabs over on the new Darkglass amp thread. I'm wondering if TKS have branched out.. what do you think? [/quote] Well, he is an excellent cab maker...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453465688' post='2959712'] Dealing with people and money is always a PITA. I can see why lots of people will do pub gigs for £80 and that's it. And I can see why some will only join established acts that don't have to do the pub gigs and suffer the arguments about being "Better than that". I'm in two camps. I'm happy to do pub gigs and I'm happy to be in a function band. I'm not sure I'm happy to be in a function band that has to do low paid gigs to get a name going. It always ends in arguments. . [/quote] Yep, always a balancing between paying the best you can and jfdi...!! The best guys I use, I pay £80 for a pub gig... and the balance is they know I'm feeding them work and I try not to insult them with poor gigs.... and they'll go along with this but I know it is their careers so they'll always be after the bigger tour work but they don't mind my nonsense from time to time. They know at the end of the year it is always about gross £'s and you wont get that by not working.

It sounds like another mouth to feed... and then there is the question of trust. You must be paying them so how do you know what is going on... unless everything is receipted..?? This is why we pay admin fees...so the guy doing the extra work... gets re-imbursed.. In our spreadsheet we have P.A, Lights admin and kitty which is basically a 6th share. Pub work is always a loss... but function work pays those bills... but unless you go a lot above £1k for a gig the top pay-out tends to be £150 per man.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453464172' post='2959691'] As it's the US it'll be a fixed %age. In the UK it would be the guitarist's girlfriend. Her payment is being able to keep an eye on him while he is at gigs. [/quote]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453411836' post='2959386'] Depends how you're running a band. If you have a list of deps it's different to wanting to put out the same band to each gig. [/quote] I'd want to put out the best band so they need to be available and you need to be able to pay that rate that day. Horns will charge £350 for a pair on summer saturday nights, so if you want them, that is what they'll quote you. I'd pay it because I know what they offer, but I have to have the budget as well. Nearer the time, if they aren't working...their fee might be more reasonable, but you aren't going to leave it that late. havings said that..horns are desirable rather than absolutely necessary, so you might..?? For that money, I don't expect deps ...even if they might not be regular. They will have to seemlessly fit in...and that one of the things that makes them worth the money. It is hard to put out the same band as the best guys are the most busiest and the reason you want them is the reason everyone else wants them..

My general thinking is that you aren't going to get any game changers at the usual Class D pricepoint so nothing new to see here...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453405875' post='2959305'] He should have paid for the rehearsal. I used to co-run a band that had a brass section. We payed everyone a flat fee regardless of what the 'band' was paid from the client. One of the brass players got upset at a wedding gig saying they should be getting more for the wedding gig than the pub and party gigs. So after a lot of huffing and puffing and flouncing we agreed an equal split at ALL gigs. She was very unhappy when we gave her £20 at the next pub gig. She was effectively "paying to play" Soon after that she would only be 'available' for weddings and functions. [b]You can't run a band when individuals are deciding when to play based on what they get paid on a gig by gig basis. Everyone needs to be available all the time and take the highs with the lows.[/b] [/quote] I'd say you can't dictate what some one wants to earn...if they are worth it..and if you can pay you will. We wouldn't have those players on certain gigs because we couldn't afford them..they'd certainly not set aside a date for £60... but they'll do it for that if they don't have work that night... much closer to the time, We pay min fee but everyone gets that the BIG payers do, to some extent subsidise that.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1453402221' post='2959249'] So do I. But my point is that I don't do it entirely for the money. There are other factors. [/quote] Me too... I think you can have your cake and eat it too... and by that I mean, play what you like and still get paid.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1453384769' post='2958996'] Also, when you chase Mr Dollar he tends to run away. Best to do as you see fit and then if [i]he [/i]finds [i]you,[/i] it's a bonus... [/quote] See, no, I wont do that...as I think I'm worth paying. I'm sure plenty of others value their time accordingly as well...?? So, I always start from the premise that I will be paid..and it is more a question of how much.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1453373549' post='2958808'] ................................. Reverting to another post by the OP (above), if we were to turn up and play for £250 and then find that she had also engaged a DJ and was paying him £500, that wouldn't worry me. I'm not concerned about how much others earn. [/quote] See, that would bother me as I'd rate us as more valuable...just by more people being involved, even with out the perceived skillset disparity, so I wouldn't want to work cheaper than a lot of DJ's...(they are likely to be a two man team as well) and is one of the reasons why we set the party rates that we do. Same may apply to PA and lights...

Some people are doing parties in pubs... I can kind of understand it. The LL pays the band and keeps the beer..and the party person pays for the food to be free. The problem with that is you can't lock out people you don't know as you don't pay for the whole event It is kind of doing things on the cheap..... so there are lots of variations. Sometimes a birthday party just shows up...and you have a great night but if they approach us direct and anyone in the band.. then no one is stupid enough to real off a price..they get the detail, introduce them to the guy who does the bookings and go from there. It is known and agreed that parties are £100 plus per man so if the mate/mates wants to waive their fee, that brings the price down by that figure. Most of the parties we do ..we'd be the cheapest element of the night.. after the marquee, caterers, etc etc ... by some way,..... even at £850...

Cool.

I believe the point is that they didn't discuss it...the 'friend' just assumed it would be ok... I'd never offer a price if I wasn't sure the guys would go for it..been there and you just look stupid. I'd put the deal to the guys and asked them what they thought..and whatever we agreed would be the official line. No one should expect a stranger to play for a lesser sum unless asked and confirmed. Any booker will know this just leads to trouble so you get the fees sorted...and always aim higher, never lower. That said, if a cause was very close to your heart, you'd discuss that as well..but you can spend the whole summer doing charities and mate's rates parties - and get known as a cheap band-... so best to put a limit on it. These are one of the first things to be discussed..where we play, what we play and how much for what..? If you are not happy with the way it is going...you need to deal with it or suck it up. Get a dep, be unavailable or do it under protest and make your point that this is a ONE-OFF...

I'd let it go...just too much hassle to keep it..and IF it did turn out the be stolen... or reported as stolen, you may have to return and might get no refund..?? Too many complications, tbh.... And if the background story is true, then if it was your bass that someone had cashed in on..you'd want it back..??