TimR

I had a session with the guitarist before we went to a studio. He effectively taught me the bass parts alongside the recordings and I took notes. With the other band I had a few recordings and they weren't bothered what lines I came up with. They knew the score and I was helping them out. The more dep work you do, the quicker you become at either learning the tune during the first verse and chorus or creating a scratch pad of well known songs. There's a reason a lot of successful bands on the circuit play the standards.

Agreed. Especially when said band are 'Playing it exactly as per the recording.' - apart from the middle 8 which they leave out, and the ending because it's a fade, and the beginning because they don't have violins and it's a bit slow anyway, and the recording is the live version from their second live album, and they've played the song for so many years it's actually nothing like the original anymore anyway... .

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444823108' post='2886348'] To me, playing any music is a learning experience and makes me better and more versatile - there is lots to be learnt from the music you dont enjoy playing/listening to. [/quote] +1 Playing in a function band improved my playing astronomically. Not least because I knew over 100 tunes and was continually learning new material every few weeks. Material that I wouldn't normally listen to or play.

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1444821785' post='2886335'] I can't ever recall seeing an originals band (who I knew the line-up of, so I would know) using a dep. [/quote] I've depped for two. Not a particularly easy thing to do! I did three rehearsals for the first one, and they kept changing arrangements for a couple of songs each week. .

I think originals bands are a special case. Even if the band are not being paid, they need to make it worthwhile for the dep to work for them. That will include not only some kind of arrangement over the additional practices but probably purchasing stage wear for them. Most deps (I include myself) will be happy to wear whatever is specified for the 'performance'. However haircuts are whatever they are so you'd be better building a relationship with a set of first call deps who know what is being expected of them.

Bands tend to set their rates and you'll usually get a share but there are brackets that different bands fall into depending on qualityand size of the band and the type and quality of the function they're playing.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444739357' post='2885455'] +1 to many of the posts above - it helps to have one busy and the rest less so. Ie, My Ska band are stupidly busy (5-6 a month most of the time) but if I can't make one I have several deps. The other three bands - one is full of other musos in same boat as me, we gig very rarely but we ahve an absolute blast and enjoy our company. One is no rehearsal gigging band that gigs maybe 5-7 times a year The final one is a new thing and they book gigs 12 months in advance - so easy to work calendar around . [/quote] Yes. Any busy band must be open to having deps. I've been in several bands who think they're above using deps, the work dries up pretty quickly if you start turning down gigs because your singer can't get a baby sitter.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1444733228' post='2885382'] It depends on the music/song doesn't it. Sometimes you can get away with a bad drummer, if the drums aren't that important. I was at a wedding recently. The band were upstairs, and apart from the vocals, un-mic'd. Sax, guitar, bass, drums, singer. The drummer was going easy on the bass drum, and without a mic it was almost inaudible, but that didn't matter at all. He was simply providing a bit of percussion over the top of the incredible bassist who was essentially providing the beat. I just wanted to watch the band all night it was so good [/quote] Nobody provides the beat. It's just there and implied from the start of the song. Some instruments will play on the beat and maybe reinforce it. It's not the drummer's job to keep everyone else in time (whatever they think) and neither is it the bass player's. The band should be able to play if drums or bass stop and should still stay in time. The difficulty comes when a drummer is unable to accept that he is playing an instrument and thinks he is in charge of the beat. I've played with drummers who will go round the kit and miss-hit toms and nearly fall off the stool but when they come round to the next bar it's as if nothing happened. I've also played with drummers who've done that only to be out of time for the next bar and then expect the whole band to drop a beat/fraction of a beat and wait for them. It's just that the drummer and bass player are regarded more as the rhythm section. If a guitarist or singer are out of time, they won't pull the rest of the band out.

Yes. It's impossible to be in more than one band if that band is playing 2/3 days each weekend. Unless one is a Sunday lunchtime Jazz band and both bands only play local gigs. I was in 3 bands at one point. However none were 'busy', I wasn't even playing once a month at one point although I was 'rehearsing' three times a week - don't even go there. Each time I found a band's drive for gigs starting to wain, I'd go find another band, but not jump ship until I was sure that the new band were right. I did get a bit of jealousy from one member of one band who claimed I wasn't committed, I just told him that I had been available for every single gig the band had ever been offered, unlike he had been, and questioned what exactly he thought committed was. Actually I was in 4 but the 4th was as a dep (and I did more gigs with them - go figure )

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1444655546' post='2884792'] What about a keys player who keeps playing the wrong chords, or a horn section playing all the wrong notes ? I once did a show with a cellist who's intonation went out of the window when the lights went down. [/quote] It's not the same. The audience can wince while they dance. If the drums and bass aren't locked together the audience can wince while they drink their drinks and stare at the empty dance floor.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1444042667' post='2879643'] I think of a feeler as being different from a high priced item. Feelers that I remember before the ban on requests for offers would often not have a price attached, and people would be asking for potential buyers to pitch the price, with a sale only being possible if the seller liked the prices. [/quote] That's a blind auction with a reserve.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1444030203' post='2879477'] I've been searching for a name for my new band... this will do just fine. [/quote] Spice Girl tribute?

Put something out at a hugely inflated price, knowing no one will offer you the asking price and to see how many people tell you it's too expensive but offer you something quite a bit less for it. Then you can decide if there's enough interest to put it out at a more reasonably high price.

Much as I dislike football I have to understand that more people like it than live music. If it keeps the venue in business, when the punters would just go somewhere else, which means I get paid for another gig on another day then it's all good. We played a party 4 years ago where we started before the rugby, stopped at kick off, played at half time and then played after full time.

Did you rebook? At least it's a decent game and not the bloody football which is on ALL the time!

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1443792530' post='2877754'] I wonder if the woodwind section of the London Philharmonic consider themselves side(wo)men or members of a scratch band ? [/quote] I know the Trombone players do.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1443729047' post='2877296'] I meant, I'm a sideman and I was hired to play bass and sing, not pick or make decisions on material. I don't expect nor do I have any interest in song choice or creative input. That is why, for me , I come up with new bass lines , positions or other things to make songs I don't care for fun. And when I say sideman , I mean guys that play in only 1 band. So my point was or suggestion was aimed at other sideman like me that don't have the interest or the option to can songs. It might be different in the UK, in the States I don't know of any [i]"sideman" [/i]bass players that make decisions on material or any other band decisions. You show up and you play the songs that are called. Blue [/quote] Precisely. Our singer, guitarist and drummer have enough arguments over song choices without me getting involved. Tell me what to play, when, I'll turn up and play it. I chose the band based on exsisting material, I trust the band leader to maintain the direction of the band. I've been the person leading the band and know how disruptive it is when you're trying to take the band in one direction and one or more members are fighting it. Making song suggestions is one thing. Vetoing songs is quite another.

The seller is a liar and a swindler if he actually said how much he thought the amp was worth and then tried to sell it for more. However, if he just said how much he was prepared to pay for the amp and would try to recoup the difference when he sold it, it's a different matter. That, I think, is it in a nutshell. Because all trade is based on trust and if you abuse that trust and are not open, it's unlikely you will trade with that person again. I think if you take a car to a used car salesman, you know what the score is. When you make a 'private' sale on BC, it's a different matter. Maybe there should be something to differentiate between traders and private sellers.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1443646197' post='2876647'] Who are these fuddie buddies of yester year you reference? I'm 62 and I'm not a fuddie duddie. Who are these fuddie duddies? Is that an English thing. I certainly don't know of any, Blue [/quote] He means 20years ago the set of 60year olds grew up on Glen Miller and Vera Lyn. Unlike today's 60year olds. Which may go some way to explain why there are so many bands around still playing all the old Beatles and Stones hits. If you're 20years old, you still have to play old fashioned music though.

I think what you're missing is what he thinks it's worth and what you think it's worth are different things and hence you're coming from different angles. If you thought the bass was worth £500, and the amp £400, and paid him an extra £100. Then you're happy. If he thought the bass was worth £600 and the amp £400 but rather than argue and sour the deal, accepted your valuation. Moves on and tries to get his extra £100 by selling the amp for £500. It's not necessarily being underhand or devious. It's just doing a deal where you both get what you're after. The alternative was possibly for him to do a straight swap, sell the amp for what he paid you for it and lose out on the £200.

He was selling a bass. You were buying a bass. He didn't want the amp, he wanted the money. If you're going to be worried about what happens afterwards then really you should have sold the amp to someone for cash. Which doesn't mean they won't immediately sell it on but makes it less likely. IMO he could be on a loser if you've already tried to sell the amp at a higher price anyway.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1443601571' post='2876020'] We have overlapping but by no means identical tastes, which does mean that there's a fair amount of variety to the set. A while ago, I played with a club band for the money. Very few of the songs were ones that I would have any desire whatsoever to listen to. In the end, that just wasn't satisfying, although all the members of the band got on well and I still do occasional deps for them, and I moved on (via another couple of bands) to the current band. [/quote] The funny thing for me is once I've learned a tune, I find it very difficult to enjoy listening to it again. I enjoy playing it, just not listening to it on the playlist in the car.

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1443517409' post='2875364'] Well, this is where we differ - my only reason for making music is to create good music and enjoy playing it, the financial side has always been a fairly minor consideration. In this case, finding people with a similar musical directions is important. But as I said in my earlier post in this thread, it's an outlook that not all on this forum share...no bother.... Each to their own, I say ! [/quote] So if you can't find people who share your tastes, you don't play?

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1443487110' post='2875234'] Then I might ask, what happened, why is it no longer enjoyable? Blue [/quote] I don't think there's one single reason. I'm finding as I get older, the musicians in my age group become very narrow minded about what they will and won't play, which type of venues they want to play, how much they want to get paid, how many times a month they'll play. They get pretty much set in their ways. That's one thing (or many) that annoy me. Another is a lack of imagination where they won't do any tune where the original cannot be exactly reproduced. Working in a band requires teamwork with strong leadership. If you're set in your ways and refuse to compromise for the good of a team then you'll never find a band. I think if you're a true musician you will continue to develop and be inspired over your whole life. The people who give up are just players of instruments.

No. We're just discussing a song. It's only a song. But the guy will make millions for it.