TimR

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1441273314' post='2857371'] @ TimR. Thank you for telling me what is wrong with my singing. If only I had known that all I needed to do was to sing with passion, I wouldn't have wasted the last 20 years behind a microphone! Trust me, it is very, very hard to manage vocal synth effects either by way of a vocoder and/or effect patches while playing bass and singing at the same time. Obviously, for the Geddy Lees among us, that is less true. It could be that you are one, in which case I apologise. [/quote] That's what I was saying. There's little point in trying and missing or ending up sounding amateurish. Just sing with no effects. Absolutely no one in the audience is going to say. You sounded rubbish because you didn't use vocoder on Living On A Prayer intro. We don't even add that part. Lots of effects that sound great on a produced record just sound pathetic or like the band are trying too hard when they can either be missed off or done some other way for a more fresh sound.

I think there's still good debate going on. The perspective from Paul himself about it is interesting. He'd already been exposed to what was going on for several years which may have put a different slant on it.

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1441215460' post='2857036'] Sorry Bilbo, I'm missing your point! You seem to be saying that bands that don't rehearse and rely on charts only produce "a poor approximation of the original". Quite obviously, the same said band [i]that rehearse[/i] would a make a better fist of things! Are you just saying that the musicians that you're involved with don't rehearse, and that you're not enjoying it for that reason? [/quote] It's the time spent on the arrangement that is crucial, not the rehearsal time. The bass player will half remember the line and the drums will half remember the drum part. Everyone will try too hard to mash the arrangement together and the result will be a mess. Usually bands use rehearsals (practices) to see how their parts that they worked out at home fit what everyone else is playing. It's at those practices that the parts are altered and the arrangements become more solid. You can't magic a complexly produced song out of some chord charts, or even from just reproducing the individual instrument parts exactly as they are in the record. The more complex the original, the more work needs to be done on the arrangement.

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1441217105' post='2857058'] A fair point, Bilbo, I find this to be especially true with effects being applied to vocals that would be very expensive to reproduce live, but the alternative is my vocals sounding amateurish. Up to a point, a response could be "Twas ever thus." with examples being Simon and Garfunkel double tracking each vocal track (having four vocal tracks between them) or Elvis having a full orchestra behind him whenever he pocked up a guitar. I have no solution. [/quote] The solution is to introduce passion into the vocal. If instruments are missing or not exactly as the original instrumentation then it will sound more amateurish if you attempt to copy the sound and slightly miss. It'll make it sound like you're trying too hard. So you either get it bang on, downloading keys FX etc, or you change the arrangement completely so that maybe the guitar is covering parts the missing keys are playing etc.

I don't think the thread is particularly about Uptown Funk. It could just as easily be about Superstition. That's full of synths and brass and layered vocals. The bass hook is played on a Rhodes. Somewhere on keytalk there's a keys player moaning about five piece rock bands...

Just read through that thread. When my boy sings it with his headphones on, all you can hear is his voice. It sounds pretty good as is. The music is just filling.

Yes. That's why I hate the term "Made it your own." No they didn't, they just changed the arrangement. And on X-Factor - someone else did that bit In my mind that's the difference between a musician and someone who can play a musical instrument.

I think it is lack of imagination from the 'artist' who is covering the song. Although it very much depends on how the 'song' was created. If there is a strong hook, melody and lyrics then you can copy the song on a piano or acoustic guitar. The rest is just, as you say, production. Often the band covering the material will get too hung up on copying the production and overlook the actual musical content (if there is any) to the detriment of what they are producing. I played with a drummer who's first comment on hearing a new tune was always; we don't have an X in our lineup so we're not doing it. Very short sighted and close minded.

Minecraft. All the 11 year old boys want to be famous YouTubers like Stampee

Blue is talking about the overnight sensation in the U.S. While similar things have happened in the UK when I was a kid and we only had 3 TV channels. Blackadder and The Young Ones are TV shows that we were always talking about and couldn't await until the next episode. For people slightly older it was Monty Python. Gangnam Style, that's just a one off viral hit. Similar to the Ice Bucket challenge. Plus the Beatles already had a string of songs ready written to hit the U.S. with. Overnight they reached 20million more people than the entire population of the UK.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1441188642' post='2856705'] Ugg didn't change the world overnight. The Beatles did. I think the point Blue is trying to make - and I agree with him, even though I didn't experience it first hand - is more about the intensity of the change. [/quote] I think undiluted TV has a massive role in this. The U.S. had three TV stations. You'll never get that reach again. Look at the viewing figures for that show. 73 Million viewers!

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1441188165' post='2856698'] Yes, but when Kanye said he was going to take over the world, he was talking [i]literally[/i]. We all thought he meant through the medium of music, but he was referring to the huge army of indestructible killer robots hidden away in his top secret mountain headquarters, poised and waiting to enslave all who comply and unleash a hideous electric death on those who do not. Mwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaa, and so on. [/quote] Or just maybe just running for President. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/31/politics/kanye-west-2020-running-for-president-vma/

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1441186379' post='2856681'] Yes indeed... sadly now One Direction have split this generation needs a new pop music hero. [/quote] I was referring more to his recent statement of taking over the world.

Frightening it could all happen again with Kanye West...

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1441176823' post='2856590'] I would rather not have to go over this stale old topic yet again, with the same participants marking out the same territory and hijacking a thread that has nothing to do with it, but hey you cant always get what you want....wait, didn't someone already say that? [/quote] It's not off topic. The OP is feeling pressured into doing a gig for free. Others have said that's borderline exploitation. If you'd rather not go over why this is happening then either don't read threads that have a financial basis or ask a Mod to ban talking about money. I gave a single one line answer. .

Quite. Just maintain a professional attitude. It's not your fault that the original bass player isn't available. Which is where the real problem lies.

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1441128797' post='2856307'] And I was just trying to point out, as I did in an earlier post, that this topic (bands playing for little or no money, festivals, charity gigs yadder yadder) is still running in another recent thread so do we have to do it all again. The OP's original point was that even if the band wanted to do the non-paying festival type gig should he, as a dep, still get paid. The general feeling seems to be that the answer is yes unless he chooses to waive his fee, which is his choice not theirs. The wider point about free, charity, festivals etc etc is not relevant as he, as a dep, has no part in the band's decision to take the gig unpaid - he should just be another expense like travel etc. for the band to consider - and just drags the topic down a very well worn road. If the cost of having him as a dep causes them to reconsider, or ask him to play for free as otherwise they can't (don't wan to) afford to do it, it's his decision what to do. Do it for expenses (fuel etc.), do it for free, or insist on his regular gig rate that they usually pay him. Not an easy one, but his decision none the less. [/quote] I would rather you had directed your comments to the person who bought the subject up. I was only answering his question. Thanks.

I was only trying to answer the question.

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1441110496' post='2856082'] Here we go again...... [/quote] Sorry, it's actually because the cost of musical equipment and the cost of living have dropped so much that we are able to pass the substantial savings on to the customer.

And why not. They've had an actor.

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1441027266' post='2855433'] Just seen someone post my thoughts Basically, yes, you've set a precendent as a dep by playing so many freebs, that they now expect it. As a dep, you are not part of the band, so disregard you play more gigs than their regular bassist. Unless you put your foot down, ( ah 1 ah 2 ah 3 and a 4 ) it will go on as they've got it sweet. While you keep accepting freebie gigs, they'll keep on not paying you. They're not daft are they ? Slight off topic To me, and i know this is the same for all musos, i'm wondering why gig money hasn't gone up with inflation. Everything has increased, yet gig money is either worse, or at best the same as 25 years back or more I know in '91 our band was getting roughly £250 per gig for pub work, and clubs paid a bit more. I'm sure it was at that level before then, and its still that way now [/quote] Because too many people are prepared to work for free.

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1441018491' post='2855302'] Sterling SUB Ray 4 - active beast. The problem is with this bass. I also have a Squier VM Precision PJ, which is passive and doesn't give the same problems. [/quote] Audition with the PJ then when you get the gig and have a couple of practices under your belt tell them you want to try out the Sterling to see what it's like.

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1440973669' post='2855095'] How am I ever going to get through an audition if my playing is littered with squeeeeeeeekrattlehoooooooo, though? [/quote] It won't be. The ringing of the snare and high hat will mask most of the percussive noises. What will be harder for you to accept is having to change all your tone settings to fit with the guitar and bass drum. So more than likely the nice clear tone you're getting in your bedroom will sound wrong and the string noises will be the least of your concerns.

I was paid and put up in a hotel for one dep gig I did. This is precisely why I say (see the other thread) bands should think very carefully about committing to low paid or free gigs. It really depends on what other plans you would have for the day and whether they'll give you a lift there.

Well, the boy has floppy hair if it helps.