TimR

[quote name='Thunderpaws' timestamp='1441619332' post='2860209'] This thread has some really sttoopid posts and some cracking posts. To me, to a great extent, most of this can be blamed on the marketing departments and magazines. This doesn't just go for musical instruments but sporting gear, cars, houses, etc... When we start out we are encouraged to buy a beginners model until we get good end ugh to buy a more expensive model. companies need us to progress so they can sell more units. [/quote] I don't agree. If they wanted to make more money they'd just produce expensive basses cheaply. I don't see why a beginner or intermediate should have to shell out £2k for a bass.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1441617260' post='2860182'] An excellent slew of advice here which I can't really add anything to, so I'll offer a new perspective. Buy a Zoom H2 or similar and start recording your band. Rather than relying on opinions (the singer's, your own, comments from punters) you can actually listen to how you sound. It's not a black & white thing and recorders often struggle to capture the true sound of the bass, but it's way better than nothing. [/quote] That's a good idea. There are plenty of cameras (not phones) that now have good quality sound as well. Then you can watch to see who in the band is shoe-gazing as well.

This is typical of non musicians. They just assume because it's music and you are a musician then you can play it. It's our job to make things that are very hard to do, look very easy. I think you just need to 'manage their expectations'. The big problem is they have a very clear idea in their heads of what they want. It's very unlikely that what you eventually produce will be anything like what they're thinking of. I don't have any advice other than offering to add the tunes to the setlist but explain the funk aspect might be a problem. Then the ball is in their court.

Busses should be red. End of discussion.

Basses are mechanical. Amps are electrical. And as pointed out. You can plug into the PA. it won't be the same but in the unlikely event of a failure it'll work.

The 15" trace is a LOUD cab. But it'll be making all that noise near your ankles and knees. Your ears are about 4-5ft higher than the directional highs coming from the cab. If you're going for a 2x12" then stack it vertically and tilt it back so the directional highs are aimed at your ears. In the mean time can you put the 2x8" vertically on top of the Trace and tilt them back a bit? Also 2 guitarists, make sure they're not cranking the mids and bottom ends. Guitarists like a rich full solo sound which is rubbish for bass players in a live setting. That will be a difficult conversation. Good luck. .

I take two basses to a gig because I had a catastrophic failure of my semi-expensive bass. A machine-head snapped clean off. I didn't have a spare bass with me. The gig was 'interesting'. My spare bass stays in its hard case - off stage. I'm not sure how people manage to play different basses with different tones. My bass is what I like through the amplification I like. Everything (apart from the gain and volume) is set at 'flat'. I've only ever had one complaint; from a guy who identified himself as a bass player, who said I should be playing a Fender for all the 70s tunes we did. He was a slightly odd bloke and I made my excuses and went to talk to someone a little bit more interesting.

Well, I'm with Milty. It's interesting to see what motivates people and what lies behind their choice of instrument. I never understand why some people see words on a page to have any malice. Non have been written. It's all in your heads guys. I just thought there were two reasons for choosing a particular bass. Seems I'm wrong so the thread has at least been interesting to me. Rampant consumerism? Hardly. We don't buy an expensive bass as soon as it's released and bin the old one. The supply chain and exchange of second hand gear is far more complex than that. As I wrote earlier, if you feel you have to defend yourself then maybe you should look at really why you bought the bass. So far only one person has admitted to being an out and out poser.

I would pack all the gear away into stacks on the stage ready to carry out with as little fuss and as late as possible. Rather than carrying the drums out one by one over the hour.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441491882' post='2859306'] Alright guys, you honestly need to learn the difference between innocently asking questions, putting forward a point of view, and bringing down the gavel in the USSR for unwarranted and illegal indulgences. I haven't forced anyone to justify why they have the gear that they do. I haven't said they don't deserve it, or that they shouldn't have it, simply that IMO it's not really necessary [i]for a local covers band[/i], and in some cases, perhaps a bit over the top. I spend my time in lots of ways, and frankly it's stooping to a pretty low level to suggest that my questioning of the phenomenon implies that I'm a poor musician. And you don't need to avoid the word "better". It's perfectly reasonable to assume more money invested in a product returns you a better product. I've never denied that. [/quote] Seems some people don't like to have their decisions questioned.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1441489023' post='2859275'] This thread might have a point if there was some inherent disadvantage to using a more expensive instrument, but there isn't ... [/quote] There is... They cost more.

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1441377929' post='2858472'] Come on, give us a clue about the offending subject? Was it EMG's on Jazz basses? [/quote] Guy was foolish enough to say which pop bands from the '60s influenced his playing style.

Choppers, Grifters and Clackers.

Well. That's what he says anyway.

You shouldn't have admitted that. You could have let the mystery run for at least 12 pages first. Bit like one of those songs where everyone reads hidden meanings into it and the artist just says; "No, really. It's just a song about a plank of wood floating down a river." And everyone nods wisely.

John Lenon was 'assassinated'.

To me the phrase "all the gear and no idea" refers to someone who has just spend a lot of money on expensive professional equipment but has no idea how to operate it. I'm not sure it applies to someone who upgrades their gear in the mistaken belief that better gear makes up for lack of talent. 'Eye' usually refers to how you see something, a point of view. As in "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1441381341' post='2858517'] You clearly don't get it..... Tut tut. 😜 [/quote] Equally I don't expect him 'to get' a lot of things that happened to me in my life. It's not a curse. It's just life from a different perspective. Would I rather been a teenager in the '60s? Not really. I'm quite happy having been a teenager in the '80s. Kennedy shot in '63. Compare that with Diana? I don't get Kennedy. I get Diana.

There are at least three separate things going on here. One is the effect the Beatles' music had on shaping pop music. One is the effect the Beatles had on teenagers. One is the psychological effect music (and current affairs) has on our memories at certain key moments of our lives. These three things have all coincided in Blue's timeline and left a profound mark on Blue's life. For the rest of us items 2 and 3 have and will continue to happen. Let's not get them mixed up.

I would argue that even the big names who mime and have other huge productions don't always get it right. Mainly due to acoustics of the venue. The more production you cram into a song the harder it is to hear the important parts of the song when you get into a reverberant venue. Everything often just turns to mush.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1441360246' post='2858207'] I just wanted to point out that my thread title was ironic. There is nothing wrong with the production values of modern pop music. I just wanted to register how hard it is for the little guy to keep up with the technology used in producing it. I guess a parallel would be a local group trying to put on a gig in a pub versus a full-on Iron Maiden stage/lighting set up. [/quote] You have just reminded me of the amount of gear the drummer in an old band wanted us to carry around for our 'stage show'.

I wonder how much of it is Music shops spending more time and care setting up expensive instruments. In the days of 'Loot'. I went to look at a second hand Aria for a beginner. The neck was slight out of true, the frets were gunged up, the pickups were wonky and the bridge was all over the place and it was practically unplayable. I said to buy it (£70) and we'd see what we could do with it. If it turned out to be a dog I said I'd buy it off him. I spent an hour on it and we put new strings on it. He spend half an hour on it with a toothbrush. The thing came up beautifully and was a dream to play. I'm sure we all have similar stories. It's certainly something to think about. But there is definitely something else when you pick up a new instrument and it just feels right and I don't think it's all in the setup.

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1441348618' post='2858065'] Twice in my playing career I have made significant steps up the price range. First when I went from Hohner to Yamaha TRB and then from TRB to Dingwall Prima. In both cases, the improvement in quality gave an identifiable improvement in sound and (more importantly) required less effort to play because of the build quality. Would the audience notice? Maybe, maybe not but I felt that my playing was enhanced which I guess is most if the point in retail. [/quote] I totally agree. A cheap bass may not sound any different but the playability is what counts. I'll select a bass on whether it feels right as well as how it sounds. Inevitably some basses that feel better cost more and the is a price point at which two things happen: 1. I can no longer tell the difference. 2. I can no longer afford the difference. Those points are different for different people and depend on many factors but I'd suggest they are the crux of what it boils down to for everyone.

It's a shame. Other artists in their 70s are working out and changing their diets and bringing out fresh new material. But some artists will never change. Seeing Saxon mentioned reminded me of this TV program where Harvey Goldsmith tries to turn them around: http://youtu.be/ekrAHJtl3-g

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1441283414' post='2857516'] A lot of covers don't do either though - they don't make an effort to play it like the recording or to rearrange it to suit their band, they just dirge it out playing the melody and chords with vaguely appropriate generic groove. In many cases I guess many of the players have never properly listened to the original song and by that I mean sat down with it instrument in hand, but are rather just busking it from having heard it on the radio 5 years ago or something. I don't expect a note for note rendition but I do expect some concious effort to be made to capture the key elements and feel of a song. [/quote] I think that's Bilbo's original point, or at least what he means in his second post. I played in a band where a couple of the 'musos' had that attitude. They know how to play music, they've been doing it for years, just approximate the chords, it'll be ok. Often there are subtle things going on, particularly where the bass isn't playing roots, or where a drum pattern subtly changes to accommodate a different lyric, or even as simple as external dynamics between the verse and chorus. Those parts are where the arrangement matters - ignore them and that's when you get it sounding like it's just being bashed out.