Bassassin

[quote]A lot of bad sh!t goes down at Xmas, which is why I hate this time of year[/quote] So very, painfully true. MFD - beautiful basses, I feel for you, really hope the sales do well & everything comes together for you. Jon.

JapCrap, JapCrap & more JapCrap! What's pathetic is that (theoretically) I buy & sell stuff as well as collect it - but if a lovely bass comes my way, it tends to stop - that was how I got my CSL Jazz no. 1 bass - picked it up for pennies, plugged it in & fell in love - after 25 years of playing, it sounded & felt - and still feels - more "right" than any other bass has. I similarly acquired my Ibanez Roadster in the same way - but it's worth much more to me as a beautiful & deliciously playable instrument than the scandalous 400% profit I'd probably make if I sold it! I also have a no-brand Gibson Grabber replica (the only way you'd tell it from a real one is the "Made In Japan" neckplate) which I'm finding it hard to part with - it cleaned up & set up beautifully, and I love to sit & plonk around on it, even though it sounds wrong for the band & feels weird to play live - so I won't gig it, which is usually my benchmark. I may be open to any sensible offers! I have no such scruples when selling g*it*rs, though - I've recently been experiencing GDS (Gear Disposal Syndrome) with a lot of skinny-string planks, and I feel vaguely disloyal by admitting my next bout of GAS will be for a 40" LCD HD telly, thanks to said planks! Jon.

I've gone with the with neck pup position, because if I anchor my thumb, that tends to be where. Lately I'm using more of a floating thumb tech, resting my forearm on the top of the body, meaning my fingers are between the pups (on a Jazz, for example) with thumb occasionally on the string adjacent to the one I'm plucking. Live I'm about 50/50 fingers & pick these days, depending on the song, but at home I seldom touch the pick, and usually playing in a seated posture, which again affects where my hand falls - so yes, it depends. Jon.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108685' date='Dec 23 2007, 07:48 PM']Bassassin... How about we just move on mate....you and I have different views on this and I respect YOU but disagree with your views.... Jim[/quote] One last try... You see - I don't think we do have particularly different views - I didn't think it necessary to say that I absolutely DO NOT support the manufacture or sale of counterfeit anything, basses, watches, bogroll, anything! I don't support illegal downloading, either - but that's a very different debate that doesn't bear much comparison to this. I collect vintage Japanese basses & guitars - many of the 70s instruments were copies of US designs. This era of guitar manufacturing history actually shaped much of the industry today, worldwide - Fender, for example, started manufacturing in Japan, because the copies were manifestly superior to the CBS-era originals - and they used the same Japanese factories that built the copies. This had the effect of both helping kill off the "copy" industry, & making a desirable brand very much more attainable to people. I make this point, not because I think JH should outsource production to other territories (I don't think this - in fact I respect his principles in [b]not[/b] doing so massively - he would make a lot more money, a lot more easily if he did) but because the original 1970s Japanese copy boom was driven by a demand for certain instruments, from a market sector that could not afford the real thing. And history has a tendency to repeat itself. Right at the moment, we are in an era in which guitar-driven music is massively popular, there are more people playing & starting playing than ever before - and our culture is more brand-obsessed than it has ever been. And because of the fashion for retro-styled bands, Rickenbackers are more desirable than ever. Surely you must understand my point here! I don't support the market in cheap copies - and actual counterfeits - any more than you do, but it is happening, will continue to happen, and RIC price increases can only make for conditions more favourable to it continuing, and getting worse. Just to make it clear again - I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD THING! As far as the vintage Rick copies are concerned, some were good, some were poor, none of them would pass scrutiny & be taken for a real one. Mine is a beautiful instrument in its own right - it's exceptionally well-made, plays like a dream, sounds great - but doesn't play or sound like a real Rick, any more than it looks like one. And the people who tend to own/buy these are fellow sad geeks like myself, with a fetish for old Jap driftwood - they are collectors' pieces these days. So you see, I'm not really expressing a particular opinion about any of this - apart from not thinking a large price increase on an already expensive product is a great idea. My perspective mostly derives from a historical view of a market in which similar conditions prevailed in the past - and what those conditions led to. Jon.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108666' date='Dec 23 2007, 06:57 PM']Would do you well to read your own reply.... [/quote] What - like you did? I think that to suggest further discourse with you is pointless, because you have not managed to understand anything I've said, or my reasons for saying it - even when another forum member has taken the trouble to try to explain it to you - is a singularly well-reasoned response. What's the point of my attempting to respond to a lot of made-up rubbish that's nothing to do with anything I've actually said? J.

[quote name='bnt' post='108650' date='Dec 23 2007, 06:11 PM']Epiphone Ripper? They'll be bringing back the [url="http://www.gibsonbass.com/GibsonVictoryBass.php"]Victory[/url] bass next - if so, I might go for that one. I nearly bought an original Victory Artist in London (Andy's) last year, but came to my sense in time. (Good, but not worth what they wanted for it.)[/quote] I wish they would - always fancied a Vic (there were never any JapCrap copies ) and prices are just plain stoopid now. Jon.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108591' date='Dec 23 2007, 04:02 PM']Now as long as there are people with Bassassin's attitude, that seems to believe that owning a knockoff of a product is ok, etc, etc, etc [i]ad infinitum[/i][/quote] Jammie - there's really[i] no point at all[/i], is there? I guess there's only a limited number of times I can make the [b]same point[/b] over & over before it finally sinks in that you're just not reading a single word I've said, are you? The essence of debate is that you listen to & understand the other person's argument, and the perspective they're coming from, and then reply with a structured and reasoned response. Instead, you're just making stuff up that I have not said. There's just no point at all. J.

Jack - thanks for clarifying my points far more eloquently than I could! Jammie - I don't dislike Mr Hall, or have any issue with the majority of his business practices. I've had personal email correspondence with him over the sale of vintage copy instruments - I'm a collector & enthusiast of the 70s Japanese copy era basses & guitars, and didn't understand RIC's policy regarding their sale. To me, it seemed that suppressing the sale of these instruments simply had the effect of making them more desirable & forcing prices up - in the UK, a vintage Rick copy can sell for only a bit less than a used Rickenbacker, so encouraging this seemed self-defeating. Mr Hall pointed out that under US trademark law, the mark owner [b]has[/b] to be seen to take action against all & any infringement - if they do not, the mark passes into the public domain in perpetuity. Therefore I understand - and (grudgingly) support RIC's actions. I have massive respect for John Hall's integrity as a businessman in his absolute refusal to compromise the nature & quality of his product - and he is in a fortunate position in that the market (up to now) can bear this. I remain, as yet, unconvinced that this recent price increase is an absolute necessity, though. What you have to understand is that in the UK, Rickenbackers are already positioned as a high-end, expensive product, far more so than in their home market, and a 40% price increase will make this already scarce & expensive instrument utterly unachievable for many. There is currently a fashion-led demand for Rick instruments, and you can be absolutely certain that unscrupulous importers [b]will[/b] rush to fill that gap, with shoddy imported copies. Which was my original point. Yes, RIC will incur some legal expenses in protecting their designs, but that is going to be the case for any business in a similar position. However, how would you propose to make existing copies (most of which were made in the 1970s) go away? All RIC are doing is hiding them from view - that's all they can do. And I'll reiterate once again - making their product more unaffordable will only encourage the manufacture, import, sale & popularity of even more copies, and RIC will have to take time & spend money attempting to prevent this. I don't own a Rick, but I do love them, and I've wanted one since I first saw Geddy Lee wielding one, back in the day. And as I've told Mr Hall - the day RIC reissue a 60s/early 70s 4001, with checker binding, toaster, full-width glitter inlays, wavy Grovers, the works - will be the day I flog my JapCrap & place an order. Even at the new prices. Probably. J.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108362' date='Dec 22 2007, 11:13 PM']Well thanks for showing us what some of the rate increase is about. All those who buy the fakes.....Mr. Hall has to pay legal fees for his copyrights> Well done sir.[/quote] With all due respect - bollocks. The instrument in the picture was built over 30 years ago, by a long-defunct Japanese manufacturer I guarantee you've never heard of. Furthermore, it isn't a "fake" - none of the copy instruments from this era made any attempt to pass themselves off as the genuine article. At the time the young Mr Hall was off having failed business ventures that were nothing to do with the family business or guitar building at all, while his dad ran Rickenbacker - or Electro-String Instrument Corporation, as it was at the time. Rickenbacker International Corp didn't exist until Hall Jr took over the business, and surprise surprise, [b]none[/b] of the design elements were registered as trademarks until the early years of this decade. Which is why the vintage copies piss off Mr Hall so much - their very existence threatens the validity of his trademark registrations (note - [i]not[/i] copyrights) and this is probably why he's quite happy to leave builders like John Birch - who have been making a very high-end, hand-built Rick lookalike since the early 70s - alone. Now kindly explain to me, utilising a few facts, if you can manage it, quite how the existence of a few cheap, rubbish modern copies, and a handful of vintage collectables are causally connected to a 40% price hike. My point (since you plainly didn't read what I said) was that making real Ricks even more unaffordable will simply make the demand for copies higher. And we all know how markets respond to demand, don't we? Unless they're Mr Hall. J.

There's an interesting post on the thread about this on RickResource - basically it seems US businesses are obligated by law to do this sort of thing: [quote]It is the job of finance companies and banks to make it less difficult for a consumer to buy a product, not RIC. It is, by law in every one of our 50 US states at least, the sole job of every commercial corporation to serve the interests of the stockholders in making the most profit that it is legally possible to make. Lawsuits surround any corporation that would even for a moment try to make the mistake of characterizing itself as trying to make it less difficult to purchase a unit of its production at the expense of maximum profitability.[/quote] With legislation like that, it's quite remarkable how affordable US retail prices appear in general, particularly compared to here. J.

[quote name='Boy Thunder' post='108070' date='Dec 22 2007, 11:49 AM']Yay... I got it..... Might just turn up for christmas too... if the fella posts it today....!![/quote] Nice one - hope it's as good as the one you just sold. J.

Lovely - I do like it when you pick up an old instrument like this & it shows little sign of ever having been played - I've had a few like that. Full scale is pretty cool, I kind of expected it to be medium - which is one reason I've not gone for one of these myself yet. I'd say if the pup sounds good, leave it & turn your amp up! J.

I'd hate to see Ric go under, despite John Hall patently being a *breach of all of the following: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10171"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10171[/url] *, as I've said before, the world would be a poorer place without Rickenbackers. I'll leave the obvious puns about that sentiment to you lot. It's a bloody strange business model, though - a successful manufacturer of a high-end product finds itself unable to keep up with the market's demand for its product, so what does it do? Expand production facilities to accomodate the market's demand? Outsource some areas of production in order to be more efficient? No - let's just make the product unaffordable to half of our potential customers, so they will just bugger off & leave us alone! Insane! I'm starting to wonder if Hall hasn't lost it altogether - a part of me would like to see him forced into the position of having to sell - He & his wife currently own RIC outright, no partners or shareholders - in order to keep the company afloat. J.

[quote name='Roffa' post='107660' date='Dec 21 2007, 02:28 PM']Where can I buy copy of a Rickenbacker? I thought that RIC had a strong copyright of their products...... //Roffa[/quote] RIC has copyright on all elements of its design & intellectual property. Only trouble is, those little Korean, Chinese & Indonesian guys really couldn't give a damn. Currently, Oriental copies branded as Rockinbetter, Shine Fernandes & Johnson can be found if you're prepared to dig around a bit, and closer to home, builders like John Birch (UK) & Sandberg (Germany) will sell you a lovely hand-built Rick-shaped bass, for prices that are starting to seem quite reasonable compared to the "legal" version. Or you could always go to your friendly local luthier & see how much they'd want to build you a Rick clone. And there's a plethora of vintage Japanese copies out there, like mine. You have to be patient, they do come up on Ebay, just contact the seller before the auction gets pulled, and you might be able to do a deal. Of course, all this means the copy & vintage copy prices will be driven up too - cheers John. J.

A message, then, for Mr John Hall of RIC. It is this: If that's what you want, then that's what will happen. And those who can still afford, or aspire to the real thing will import, because no doubt US prices will remain about 45% lower than UK ones. And UK, and other non-US dealers will stop bothering to try & sell Ricks, and probably sell copies instead. Rickenbacker International Corp won't be very "international" any more. Not that it really is, anyway. Jon.

Looks like a not-bad nick generic 70s JapCrap jazz neck to me. Interesting how he ruminates about Warwick not being an American company, yet it seemingly hasn't occurred to him that somebody's just slapped a sticker on it. I find the idea that he actually has a reserve on it faintly disturbing. Wonder how much it is? Jon.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='107124' date='Dec 20 2007, 02:39 PM']Good deal for that money?[/quote] Oh yes - Matsumoku-era 80s JapCrap, getting more & more desirable to Ebay punters. If he was local, I'd have it for £60 - I'd probably reason that I'd hang on to it until his Ebay listing expires & then sell it on at a more solvent time of year, & make a substantial profit. And then, what I'd actually do is end up liking it & keeping it. Happens all the time. By 'eck there's alot of bargains flying off my Ebay watch list right now. Too bad I can't afford any of 'em. Jon.

I can't play when drunk or otherwise intoxicated (there's many as would say I can't anyway) - I forget my place in the song, co-ordination goes to hell & I get stressed cos I know I'm going to screw up - which makes me screw up more! So, no drinking to the point of tangible intoxication for me - I might have a social pint before playing, and like to have a drink with me onstage - but that'll be water with ice. I'm not much of a drinker anyway, tbh - I'm too prone to not actually getting drunk regardless of how much I neck, but still having the headache from hell the next day. Jon.

Oh bugger - hope I haven't p!ssed on your fireworks here. Don't worry - I won't be bidding. J.

Considering what Mr Thunder just got for his III, this fretted Thunder II looks worth keeping an eye on: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160189810698"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=160189810698[/url] J.

Even if Leo Quan was going out of business, I doubt that would be the end of the Badass - as well as being a massively popular retrofit bridge, it's now a standard part on numerous production basses, including several Fenders. The design would be licensed out & produced elsewhere. Jon.

[quote name='finnbass' post='105651' date='Dec 17 2007, 11:26 PM']You're just one of those conventional, 'stick-in-the muds' who cling-on to outmoded conventions like having strings above the fretboard... [/quote] I had a traumatising experience with some misaligned strings at a very vulnerable age. I still suffer nightmares accompanied with uncontrollable flatulence to this very day. J.

I think it's quite spectacular - I don't usually like singlecuts much but that's really very striking & original. Shame the pics aren't a bit more detailed. Jon.

Bit of an off-day in the factory to get the bridge quite as misaligned as that - the g-string's nearly hanging off the top of the fingerboard. Also looks like a replacement, home-chewed "custum" brass nut. Maybe the owner liked the strings to be in unconventional places. Jon.

[quote name='nick' post='105314' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:23 PM']It looks very similar to Univox basses of the same type, from 70's. So I'm guessing it counts as Japcrap firewood(?) Any ideas, familiar to you Jon?[/quote] Can't give you a 100% ID but... [url="http://www.matsumoku.org/models/aria/hollow/sem/semi.html"]http://www.matsumoku.org/models/aria/hollow/sem/semi.html[/url] Check out the 5120 bass - particularly the neck - offset dots, Gibbo headstock, same tuners & TRC, they're related alright. Bear in mind it doesn't necessarily mean it's a Matsumoku - all the contributors to the Mat board agree there's no confirmed Aria/ Mat link prior to 1975 - indeed it's not confirmed that Matsumoku built guitars at all before then, and yours looks older than that. However, it's widely accepted that Univox was sourced from the same builder as Aria - and this looks like pretty good evidence: And the neckplate will have "Steel Reinforced Neck" and a random serial number, as well as Made in Japan. I know these things.... According to the old [i]Guru's Guitar Guide[/i], Commodore was: [quote]"Japan, late 60s - 70s, UK importer brand name, at first on various cheapo originals, and then some copies, eg Dan Armstrong see through solid repro."[/quote] Anyway Nick, do post some piccies when it drops through your letterbox! J.