Bassassin

15. I suppose the band taking its longest break ever, from August until the middle of December didn't help, but I'm still very disappointed. 2008 should be busier. Jon.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='112427' date='Jan 2 2008, 05:10 PM']Be very careful ... there's no full-length photo and that could easily be a short-scale or even a 3/4-size bass.[/quote] That's full-scale, I had one for a while. These are not bad, but might take a bit of brutalising to set up right - the neck on mine was glued as well as bolted into the neck pocket, and I'm certain came from the factory like that. It took some persuading to remove - which was absolutely essential to shim it down to a playable string height. They also weigh an absolute ton - I don't know what the body's made of, but I'm sure a whole tree made of it would have its own gravity well. The necks are weird - what in the early days of Jap/Oriental guitar manufacture was referred to as "strip mahogany" - plywood by any other name. This means the neck's very rigid - but also ridiculously heavy, too. Quite a bulky feel to the neck if I remember. Mine actually sounded great, very authentic, and played not bad too, would have benefited from a decent fret dress but was perfectly playable anyway. TBH though, £49, plus £17 postage, plus necessary upgrades (bridge!) and replacement bits & bobs - you could pick up a better/proper JapCrap P copy for about the same if you're patient. J.

[quote name='Musky' post='112149' date='Jan 2 2008, 10:39 AM']A genuine Ibanez up for sale - [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Model-2389bmr-Bass-Guitar-Rare-MIJ-Retro_W0QQitemZ140194948589"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Model-2389bmr...emZ140194948589[/url] Not sure I like the sound of the neck repairs though.[/quote] That's probably why it's not £100 dearer - these basses (it's a 2388bDX if it doesn't have a serial number ) can fetch over £500, just on the strength of the logo. Speaking of which - the original trc's not present, he's very careful not to show the headstock. Also bear in mind that this was a standard factory design by Fujigen Gakki - it might have never been an Ibanez. Anyway, if I was looking to buy (at that price? Not a hope, there'll be one at the local car boot for £35 eventually) I wouldn't be concerned about the splits at the body - this is very common on real Ricks, so it's hardly surprising when it happens on JapCrap. It's presumably a messy bodge of a repair, though, which is likely why he mentions it. The neck cracks sound a bit more worrying - it's either been battered or it's had the truss rod hugely overtightened. I don't like the fact he'd sooner show an old catalogue image than any pictures of the damage. Despite what he says, I'd be as concerned about the likelihood of a ridiculously high & unlowerable action, which is surprisingly common on 70s neckthrough/set neck JapCrap in the first place, and seems to be standard on these. I have seen a few of this model, and I played one a couple of years back which was practically unplayable above the 7th fret - the strings were being stretched out of pitch simply to fret a note. The neck was straight, and the saddle slots had been filed brutally to try & get it down, but it was still about 1cm at the 12th fret. The only way I can see to rectify this would be to rout a hole for the bridge to sit in. I'd always be wary of a through-neck example, unless I could get to see it before I bought it. Or it was insanely & absurdly cheap. J.

Hurry up & have a laugh at this before it disappears up its own absurdity: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LATE-60s-RICKENBACKER-BASS-MAKE-AN-OFFER_W0QQitemZ230208819469"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LATE-60s-RICKENBACKE...emZ230208819469[/url] It's a Hondo. J.

[quote name='Bassassin' post='111367' date='Dec 31 2007, 11:05 AM']And finally, for the lovers of the weird, esoteric, and exclusive to Woolies in the late 60s/early 70s, a Teisco EB(?) which was probably sold as a "Top Twenty": [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290194561326"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=290194561326[/url][/quote] Looks as though the light's attracting them: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220187500085"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=220187500085[/url] This one still has its Top Twenty sticker. J.

[quote name='tauzero' post='111836' date='Jan 1 2008, 03:40 PM']Right, who's going to offer him £150?[/quote] I'd maybe give him £150 - but it's in a bit of a state. Looks like lots of bits of binding have started splitting & peeling off and have been Evo-Sticked back, and the scratchplate & knobs are non-original. Surprised it hasn't been pulled due to the title - are the Rick Police on Xmas holiday? J.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='111364' date='Dec 31 2007, 10:57 AM']....I'd prefer a thru-neck[/quote] Here you go then: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170181713050"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170181713050[/url] Although with that BIN, I hope it just gathers dust. This is maybe a Shaftesbury, Maya, Cimar or the like - but it's pretty battered looking & far from original. Having seen a few neck-throughs with unadjustably high actions, I'd be a bit wary about buying one off the bay, I think. Unless it was stupidly cheap. J.

Well, Christmas is over, and the JapCrap's coming back. Which is nice. An Arbiter/Matsumoku (probably) Rick copy: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120203908461"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120203908461[/url] And a no-name neckthrough 4001-a-be with a tongue-swallower of a BIN: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170181713050"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=170181713050[/url] The ever-popular & so far sensibly priced Ibby RS900 Roadster: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140194099066"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=140194099066[/url] Keepin' it Fujigen, an Antoria Jazz, high start but worth a sniff if it doesn't attract too many bids: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320201155257"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=320201155257[/url] And keepin' it both Fujigen and Antoria, a nice old LP bass (shame about the cack bridge): [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260198569119"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260198569119[/url] And maintaining the Gibson-esque theme, but this time hailing (possibly) from the JapCrap anorak's favourite sewing machine factory: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260197959651"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260197959651[/url] And finally, for the lovers of the weird, esoteric, and exclusive to Woolies in the late 60s/early 70s, a Teisco EB(?) which was probably sold as a "Top Twenty": [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290194561326"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=290194561326[/url] Good to have 'em back, isn't it? J.

Good grief! A 70s JapCrap Rick copy: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120203908461"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120203908461[/url] Very nice nick & also very interesting - it has twin truss rods, like most copies don't. and it's somehow even odder to see this on a bolt-neck. I think it's a Matsumoku, the hardware & age (owner claims to have had it from new) would point to that, and some other Arbiters are confirmed Mats. J.

[quote name='finnbass' post='109578' date='Dec 26 2007, 06:00 PM']Does yours have fur around the hood? [/quote] Oh, that's right, mock the afflicted. FYI I have several, some with fur, some without. And some of them have pink fur. I'm not ashamed. J.

The body's from a 70s Kay KB24. I knew this at first glance. Will somebody please take me outside & shoot me? Jon.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='107593' date='Dec 21 2007, 12:40 PM']If it is the same T&C as the UK it will have to be a minimum of £50 or the equivalent in $... now that is scary![/quote] Well it's now bid up to $50 and the reserve's not met yet - which demonstrates two very disturbing, but strangely amusing things, I think. And I did enquire what the reserve was, and whether he would ship to Yurp - both questions he has chosen to ignore. Although that might be because I suggested he do a Google image search for "Warwick Buzzard", and pointed out his Warwick neck was a bit of well-used 70s JapCrap with a sticker slapped on it. Oops. J.

[quote name='Hit&Run' post='108929' date='Dec 24 2007, 02:42 PM']I've gone for the P-pickup spot because that's where I like to rest/anchor my thumb. Resting your forearm on the top edge of the body can lead to [i]carpal tunnel syndrome[/i]. Or so I've heard. That said, I wish I could get some decent floating thumb action going down. Then I wouldn't be limiting my choice of basses and their respective pickup placements.[/quote] That's a bit worrying - although thinking about it I can understand how that could develop. Time for a rethink, perhaps! J.

[quote]A lot of bad sh!t goes down at Xmas, which is why I hate this time of year[/quote] So very, painfully true. MFD - beautiful basses, I feel for you, really hope the sales do well & everything comes together for you. Jon.

JapCrap, JapCrap & more JapCrap! What's pathetic is that (theoretically) I buy & sell stuff as well as collect it - but if a lovely bass comes my way, it tends to stop - that was how I got my CSL Jazz no. 1 bass - picked it up for pennies, plugged it in & fell in love - after 25 years of playing, it sounded & felt - and still feels - more "right" than any other bass has. I similarly acquired my Ibanez Roadster in the same way - but it's worth much more to me as a beautiful & deliciously playable instrument than the scandalous 400% profit I'd probably make if I sold it! I also have a no-brand Gibson Grabber replica (the only way you'd tell it from a real one is the "Made In Japan" neckplate) which I'm finding it hard to part with - it cleaned up & set up beautifully, and I love to sit & plonk around on it, even though it sounds wrong for the band & feels weird to play live - so I won't gig it, which is usually my benchmark. I may be open to any sensible offers! I have no such scruples when selling g*it*rs, though - I've recently been experiencing GDS (Gear Disposal Syndrome) with a lot of skinny-string planks, and I feel vaguely disloyal by admitting my next bout of GAS will be for a 40" LCD HD telly, thanks to said planks! Jon.

I've gone with the with neck pup position, because if I anchor my thumb, that tends to be where. Lately I'm using more of a floating thumb tech, resting my forearm on the top of the body, meaning my fingers are between the pups (on a Jazz, for example) with thumb occasionally on the string adjacent to the one I'm plucking. Live I'm about 50/50 fingers & pick these days, depending on the song, but at home I seldom touch the pick, and usually playing in a seated posture, which again affects where my hand falls - so yes, it depends. Jon.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108685' date='Dec 23 2007, 07:48 PM']Bassassin... How about we just move on mate....you and I have different views on this and I respect YOU but disagree with your views.... Jim[/quote] One last try... You see - I don't think we do have particularly different views - I didn't think it necessary to say that I absolutely DO NOT support the manufacture or sale of counterfeit anything, basses, watches, bogroll, anything! I don't support illegal downloading, either - but that's a very different debate that doesn't bear much comparison to this. I collect vintage Japanese basses & guitars - many of the 70s instruments were copies of US designs. This era of guitar manufacturing history actually shaped much of the industry today, worldwide - Fender, for example, started manufacturing in Japan, because the copies were manifestly superior to the CBS-era originals - and they used the same Japanese factories that built the copies. This had the effect of both helping kill off the "copy" industry, & making a desirable brand very much more attainable to people. I make this point, not because I think JH should outsource production to other territories (I don't think this - in fact I respect his principles in [b]not[/b] doing so massively - he would make a lot more money, a lot more easily if he did) but because the original 1970s Japanese copy boom was driven by a demand for certain instruments, from a market sector that could not afford the real thing. And history has a tendency to repeat itself. Right at the moment, we are in an era in which guitar-driven music is massively popular, there are more people playing & starting playing than ever before - and our culture is more brand-obsessed than it has ever been. And because of the fashion for retro-styled bands, Rickenbackers are more desirable than ever. Surely you must understand my point here! I don't support the market in cheap copies - and actual counterfeits - any more than you do, but it is happening, will continue to happen, and RIC price increases can only make for conditions more favourable to it continuing, and getting worse. Just to make it clear again - I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD THING! As far as the vintage Rick copies are concerned, some were good, some were poor, none of them would pass scrutiny & be taken for a real one. Mine is a beautiful instrument in its own right - it's exceptionally well-made, plays like a dream, sounds great - but doesn't play or sound like a real Rick, any more than it looks like one. And the people who tend to own/buy these are fellow sad geeks like myself, with a fetish for old Jap driftwood - they are collectors' pieces these days. So you see, I'm not really expressing a particular opinion about any of this - apart from not thinking a large price increase on an already expensive product is a great idea. My perspective mostly derives from a historical view of a market in which similar conditions prevailed in the past - and what those conditions led to. Jon.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108666' date='Dec 23 2007, 06:57 PM']Would do you well to read your own reply.... [/quote] What - like you did? I think that to suggest further discourse with you is pointless, because you have not managed to understand anything I've said, or my reasons for saying it - even when another forum member has taken the trouble to try to explain it to you - is a singularly well-reasoned response. What's the point of my attempting to respond to a lot of made-up rubbish that's nothing to do with anything I've actually said? J.

[quote name='bnt' post='108650' date='Dec 23 2007, 06:11 PM']Epiphone Ripper? They'll be bringing back the [url="http://www.gibsonbass.com/GibsonVictoryBass.php"]Victory[/url] bass next - if so, I might go for that one. I nearly bought an original Victory Artist in London (Andy's) last year, but came to my sense in time. (Good, but not worth what they wanted for it.)[/quote] I wish they would - always fancied a Vic (there were never any JapCrap copies ) and prices are just plain stoopid now. Jon.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108591' date='Dec 23 2007, 04:02 PM']Now as long as there are people with Bassassin's attitude, that seems to believe that owning a knockoff of a product is ok, etc, etc, etc [i]ad infinitum[/i][/quote] Jammie - there's really[i] no point at all[/i], is there? I guess there's only a limited number of times I can make the [b]same point[/b] over & over before it finally sinks in that you're just not reading a single word I've said, are you? The essence of debate is that you listen to & understand the other person's argument, and the perspective they're coming from, and then reply with a structured and reasoned response. Instead, you're just making stuff up that I have not said. There's just no point at all. J.

Jack - thanks for clarifying my points far more eloquently than I could! Jammie - I don't dislike Mr Hall, or have any issue with the majority of his business practices. I've had personal email correspondence with him over the sale of vintage copy instruments - I'm a collector & enthusiast of the 70s Japanese copy era basses & guitars, and didn't understand RIC's policy regarding their sale. To me, it seemed that suppressing the sale of these instruments simply had the effect of making them more desirable & forcing prices up - in the UK, a vintage Rick copy can sell for only a bit less than a used Rickenbacker, so encouraging this seemed self-defeating. Mr Hall pointed out that under US trademark law, the mark owner [b]has[/b] to be seen to take action against all & any infringement - if they do not, the mark passes into the public domain in perpetuity. Therefore I understand - and (grudgingly) support RIC's actions. I have massive respect for John Hall's integrity as a businessman in his absolute refusal to compromise the nature & quality of his product - and he is in a fortunate position in that the market (up to now) can bear this. I remain, as yet, unconvinced that this recent price increase is an absolute necessity, though. What you have to understand is that in the UK, Rickenbackers are already positioned as a high-end, expensive product, far more so than in their home market, and a 40% price increase will make this already scarce & expensive instrument utterly unachievable for many. There is currently a fashion-led demand for Rick instruments, and you can be absolutely certain that unscrupulous importers [b]will[/b] rush to fill that gap, with shoddy imported copies. Which was my original point. Yes, RIC will incur some legal expenses in protecting their designs, but that is going to be the case for any business in a similar position. However, how would you propose to make existing copies (most of which were made in the 1970s) go away? All RIC are doing is hiding them from view - that's all they can do. And I'll reiterate once again - making their product more unaffordable will only encourage the manufacture, import, sale & popularity of even more copies, and RIC will have to take time & spend money attempting to prevent this. I don't own a Rick, but I do love them, and I've wanted one since I first saw Geddy Lee wielding one, back in the day. And as I've told Mr Hall - the day RIC reissue a 60s/early 70s 4001, with checker binding, toaster, full-width glitter inlays, wavy Grovers, the works - will be the day I flog my JapCrap & place an order. Even at the new prices. Probably. J.

[quote name='jammie17' post='108362' date='Dec 22 2007, 11:13 PM']Well thanks for showing us what some of the rate increase is about. All those who buy the fakes.....Mr. Hall has to pay legal fees for his copyrights> Well done sir.[/quote] With all due respect - bollocks. The instrument in the picture was built over 30 years ago, by a long-defunct Japanese manufacturer I guarantee you've never heard of. Furthermore, it isn't a "fake" - none of the copy instruments from this era made any attempt to pass themselves off as the genuine article. At the time the young Mr Hall was off having failed business ventures that were nothing to do with the family business or guitar building at all, while his dad ran Rickenbacker - or Electro-String Instrument Corporation, as it was at the time. Rickenbacker International Corp didn't exist until Hall Jr took over the business, and surprise surprise, [b]none[/b] of the design elements were registered as trademarks until the early years of this decade. Which is why the vintage copies piss off Mr Hall so much - their very existence threatens the validity of his trademark registrations (note - [i]not[/i] copyrights) and this is probably why he's quite happy to leave builders like John Birch - who have been making a very high-end, hand-built Rick lookalike since the early 70s - alone. Now kindly explain to me, utilising a few facts, if you can manage it, quite how the existence of a few cheap, rubbish modern copies, and a handful of vintage collectables are causally connected to a 40% price hike. My point (since you plainly didn't read what I said) was that making real Ricks even more unaffordable will simply make the demand for copies higher. And we all know how markets respond to demand, don't we? Unless they're Mr Hall. J.

There's an interesting post on the thread about this on RickResource - basically it seems US businesses are obligated by law to do this sort of thing: [quote]It is the job of finance companies and banks to make it less difficult for a consumer to buy a product, not RIC. It is, by law in every one of our 50 US states at least, the sole job of every commercial corporation to serve the interests of the stockholders in making the most profit that it is legally possible to make. Lawsuits surround any corporation that would even for a moment try to make the mistake of characterizing itself as trying to make it less difficult to purchase a unit of its production at the expense of maximum profitability.[/quote] With legislation like that, it's quite remarkable how affordable US retail prices appear in general, particularly compared to here. J.