Annoying Twit

Which species of wood is the body of this Lakland made from? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lakland-44-01-Bass-Guitar-/361083357827?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item54123eca8

Yep. http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Squier-By-Fender-Affinity-P-Bass-Rumble-15-Amp-Pack-Black/9MN?origin=product-ads&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PLA+Shop+-+Squier&utm_content=KRDAX91G%7Cdc_pcrid_52859480959_plid__kword__match__&gclid=CP36ibTascECFcbMtAodnkIAvQ

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1413394057' post='2577906'] Before getting into testing different woods against each other, I think you would first have to satisfy the following question; If you felled a single tree of one species and then made a number of bodies from the timber, would you get a variation depending on which part of the tree the wood came from? [/quote] There may be variation within pieces of wood. You could still do the experiment. You will just need to compare (say) N alder bodied jazz basses to N basswood bodied jazz basses. Where N is a number chosen by statistical power analysis. You could also work out whether the variation within a species is significant. Give people three recordings at a time. Two of these are of the same bass, and the other one is a different bass of the same make, model, and construction. If they can identify the odd man out with a frequency significantly higher than random chance, then the variation in body wood within a species has a significant affect on tone. If not, then it doesn't.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1413378163' post='2577678'] On the "crudely made" phrase, I was alluding to the idea sometimes hinted at on forums that the cheapest copy with a decent pickup installed will be as good as anything else. It's true that in many contexts the sound will be similar enough to be indistinguishable, but there are all kinds of subtle things which may make the cheap copy less pleasurable to play than a premium instrument. Maybe not strictly relevant here admittedly, but I choose my instruments through playing them and not through double-blind tests. [/quote] Deciding which bass to play is one thing, and playing an instrument and choosing the right one is best handled the way you describe. But, this thread isn't about playing and buying basses, it's specifically about the academic question of whether wood species (at least between sensible tonewoods) makes a significant difference to the sound of an electric bass. Answering the second question is very different, and not all that relevant (as you say) to, the first question. This thread was specifically started to isolate this discussion from the wider picture of bass purchasing and playing. [quote] With regard to the violin and brass players, I don't think their personal experience [i]is[/i] wrong, but their interpretation and explanation of that experience probably is. Their personal experience is simply that they prefer playing instrument X to instrument Y, which is a valid (if personal) observation. The questionable bit is whether another instrument made from the same material as X will have the same desirable traits. [/quote] Quite possible. But, there are claims made about the sound quality, so even if the error is due to them misinterpreting and/or mis-explaining their experience, it's still an error.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1413375765' post='2577636'] Or just pay what you can afford for a bass that sounds good to you and that you like playing. And then play it. [/quote] I do quite a bit of this

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1413384292' post='2577757'] Double gig bag? I use one all the time. Not on a bike, tho... [/quote] I didn't know that double gig bags existed. That's a fair amount of weight, however. Looking at this: http://www.gak.co.uk/en/mono-m80-dual-bass-gig-bag/102554?gclid=CPeKi5z1rsECFfMZtAodJx0ARA I couldn't help but note an Ibanez Soundgear bass sticking out of the bag in the photo. My 'at work' bass is a SR760, and I just lifted it. I could imagine putting one of those in the bag and then adding a pawlonia bodied bass as a spare, or maybe a Steinberger clone. I think I've worked out the acronyms in other posts. MB200 I recognise, but I had to google to find out what an EA whizzy 10 is. I've just lifted a 2x10 250w combo, and it was pretty heavy. On a bicycle trailer that weight may be an issue. This is all theoretical at the moment, but I like to think about things well ahead.

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1413275778' post='2576501'] Again, for me it would be dependant on the guys attitude and how he was on stage (i.e if he was jumping about I'd be more inclined to say no). I can understand why some people are unable to bring their own rig/a backup bass to gigs. I don't drive so bringing a second bass with me via public transport isn't always ideal (or at times possible). [/quote] How do you carry your amp? I'm seriously considering buying a trailer for my bicycle reckoning that I can get a combo in it. Spare bass would be tricky, I only have one back to put a gig bagged bass on, but could carry a spare with the neck removed - hmm... may take time to become tuning stable after reattaching the neck.

I quite like the track that starts this: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBQwhwqC_O0"]https://www.youtube....h?v=OBQwhwqC_O0[/url] Leland Sklar bass solo from 20:25 ... nice, IMHO.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1413371789' post='2577570'] ... although, being acoustic instruments, violins et al are not directly comparable, I'd say. Acoustic guitars have a very different sound, depending partially on the essence used, but solid-body basses..? How about electro-drums..? Does the wood used for the sticks (Hickory..? Oak..?) influence the sound much, or at all..? Similar debate, I'd say. [/quote] The conclusions we're taking, or at least that I'm taking, from the violin and brass instrument examples is simply that 'even experts can be sucked in by myths'. The two situations are amply close enough for that quite general conclusion to be transferable, and for it to mean that we can't presume that bass body wood makes a difference because expert people claim that it does. Your electro-drum example is certainly closer to the bass body wood example than violins. But, I'm not familiar with any double blind research on wood sticks for electro drums making a difference to the sound or not. Unless we find some such research, then we have to look at what we have.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1413362703' post='2577416'] Yeah, this is an odd area. If all of these subjective things about our relationship to an instrument are so important to how we feel about playing it there could be a case for embracing that, as long as we're honest about it. If a player has a positive feeling about playing an instrument individually handmade from carefully selected woods with no expense spared, [b]does it matter whether he could tell it from a crudely made copy in cheap woods with the same pickup when recorded in a blind test?[/b] Could it be argued that if that player feels better about the first instrument then it is a better instrument for him? [/quote] I think this is the wrong comparison. The topic of the thread was meant to be whether the species of body wood makes a difference to the tone. The correct comparison then would be an instrument individually handmade from carefully selected woods with no expense spared to another instrument individually handmade from some other wood with no expense spared other than the choice of wood species. Or, two crudely made basses that only differ in the species of wood of the body. Otherwise you're comparing apples with oranges. Particularly since nobody seems to be claiming that a crudely made instrument is as good as a very well made instrument. Returning to the topic, the violins and brass instruments are good examples of how the personal experience of people who are quite expert in a field can still easily be wrong. That's why we need well designed and implemented experiments to find out what the truth is.

Anyone going to make a best offer? The scrap value of the metal on it must be worth a few bob.

I'm a fan of Bowie, but I didn't like that. Much of Bowie's best stuff has very well crafted melodies, e.g. Heroes, married with a very interesting production. I didn't hear any well constructed melody in the new song.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1413294283' post='2576792'] I've a 6-string fretless, 5-string fretted and a 4- string fretted. I've never bothered about details such as scale length, spacing etc. I just play them. I may be odd, but I find it easy to adjust to the instrument, rather than try to find any particular set-up. There are extremes, of course, but millimetres are not a concern of mine. When playing other people's instruments, it's the same. I adapt. It's rare that I find anything unplayable. Sorry if this doesn't help much. [/quote] This is pretty much what I was thinking.

[quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1413289056' post='2576723'] Westone arrived today. The fault was a dirty input terminal. OOOh its nice... [/quote] Dirty input terminal? R to the E to the S to the U to the L to the T.

[quote name='randythoades' timestamp='1413284655' post='2576628'] Why do I find this strangely intriguing? [/quote] Are all your windows shut? Perhaps you need more oxygen?

Would Harley Benton do a gold-top Les Paul bass?

In a discussion such as this, it's always easy to talk about personal experience, the statements of experts, and what seems logical. However, there are lots of examples where all of these can be referenced, but even then, the claim is wrong. If we want to know if body wood makes a significant (e.g. audible to a human) difference, then the only way to know for sure is a well designed and executed experiment. And when experiments have been done, they suggest that body wood does not make an appreciable difference to the tone of a solid body electric guitar/bass. This doesn't mean that the question is answered. It's often possible to design a more robust experiment. However, from the actual information we have, the claim that body wood does not make a significant difference seems to be winning out. There are plenty of examples of how myths can take hold. E.g. bi-wiring of amps has been shown by scientific tests to be worthless. However, speaker manufacturers don't dare to release speakers without ports for bi-wiring, as they wouldn't be able to sell them. The myth is too strongly and widely believed. It could well be that the same applies to electric solid-body bass body woods.

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1413188732' post='2575521'] Quite possible for Basswood, agreed. I, like many others though, have changed the body of a bass whilst keeping everything else the same, and noticed a profound difference in tone. I will note though that there are differences between different bodies of the same wood, as there are differences between woods. Each body is effectively unique. However, I am convinced that there are also reasonable generalisations that can be stated about various woods as used in bass bodies. This really isn't the thread to go into it in detail though. My initial comment about basswood construction in the Revelation Jazz bass on ebay will put many others off as well as me though. [/quote] Yes, many people have noticed a change in tone. The point of having very robustly designed experiments is to see whether the change in tone that has been noticed really exists, or whether it is (e.g.) a placebo effect. There is a huge amount of data and research that shows that human beings are very suggestible, and easily misled.

Congratulations to both yourself and the sales staff of Wunjo's.

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1413180593' post='2575463'] I know this is a contentious subject, but I have yet to play a basswood-constructed bass that I have been impressed with. Ditto Agathis. Soft, non-resonant. I strongly believe that the body and (even more) the neck structure and material are intimately involved in the tone of a bass. Hardness and rigidity being key factors. I'm sure basswood construction can be done right. I am aware that Bongo's are made from Basswood for example. But the whole instrument will have been designed from the ground up with that in mind I expect, and a lot of care gone into the whole construction. Cheaper basses just seem to use standard designs and yet make the bodies from basswood. Doesn't work IMO. [/quote] I think I saw some experiments some time ago where people made identical guitars except that they differed in various aspects. E.g. set neck versus through neck. I think they also changed the body wood. EDIT: Here is a report on it: http://www.guitarsite.com/news/music_news_from_around_the_world/electric-guitar-wood-myth-busted/ The result was that people actually couldn't tell the difference between recordings made with the two basses. I'd want to see further double blinded tests to see whether this is actually the case. But, like people's preference for Stradivarius violins, there may be some placebo effect going on. Note: I'm aware that people usually don't respond well to others suggesting that something they believe is a myth, but at least I've included a reference to partially relevant research. That body wood doesn't seem to make a significant different in guitars doesn't prove that the same happens for basses, but it certainly makes that claim plausible. There could still be a correlation between basswood and basses that aren't wonderful. Simply because basswood is cheap and therefore gets used for cheap instruments, and also high end instrument buyers don't like it, so high end bass makers may avoid it for marketing purposes. But, correlation does not imply causation.

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1413147150' post='2575331'] Basswood body. Yuck. [/quote] What's wrong with basswood? Apart from it denting easily, and having a bit of an uninteresting grain?

Oooh, Les Paul Goldtop bass. Looks lovely. (Though, TBH, I don't really like the sound of Les Paul basses that I've seen. But, they look nice.)

In theory my Rockbass Streamer Standard should be not needed any more. But, I find myself playing it often, particularly now that I've noticed that there's something about the sound which means that it plays quite well with my new Zoom B1xon multi-effects pedal.

I don't know. My Harley Benton has some Mahogany, but there is no rosewood and the rest of the bass is mainly easily available woods. ash, maple, sycamore. It is said that Mahogany on cheap Asian made instruments is often 'Philippine Mahogany' (Luan) which isn't Mahogany at all, though it looks like it. Some Harley Benton basses were made with FSC certified wood. I was hoping that there would be such a label on my bass, but there wasn't. I did a quick google to see if there was any discussion that I could find about the legality of wood used in Harley Benton instruments, but couldn't find any. As we've seen with a certain well known brand, even buying expensive instruments doesn't guarantee that the wood source is kosher.