Manton Customs

Post number 2 all the way

I'd get a coarser polishing compound and give that a go before resorting to wet sanding. Autosol metal polish may well be worth a go, I've used it lots of times for removing similar scratches. If you try wet sanding, use no coarser than 600 and progress through the grits to 12/1500. Depending on how deep the scratches are it may be difficult to gauge how perfect you can get it before burning through! Which would be a disaster. You may need to settle for a sort of "as good as you can get" result if you feel you have removed a lot of finish, far better this than going too far. From the pics it looks like you should be able to get it looking pretty good with Autosol as they aren't too bad. If you go the wet sanding route, once you have sanded up to 1200/1500 then progress onto polishing compounds, no new lacquer would be needed provided you don't b***s it up! Polishing compounds can be used by hand with a soft cloth.

Sounds like the anchor is not doing it's job, have a read through this http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Truss_Rods/A_sign_of_truss_rod_trouble_and_an_easy_solution_.html. Failing that, yes heavier gauge strings or clamping into a forward bow should also work.

We could do that for you . Feel free to send a PM or email if interested.

[quote name='bassmachine2112' timestamp='1431859183' post='2775581'] Hiho lovely piece of wood there. kinda off thread but onnit-why aren,t we using indigenous woods from UK like sycamore,it,s a maple,oak,birch,rowan,blackthorn I know some of these would need to be glued together as the boards would be narrow . I take inspiration from all the trees that are in our country,what,s wrong with Norfolk ash,it,s quiet swampy in places like the broads,willow makes cricket bats and they get a pounding,beech used for mallets cause it resists splitting. Just a thought [/quote] We do just that . Agree completely it's a shame that more English woods aren't used. Sycamore is a true Maple (but a fake plane, hence the latin name ) and a lovely wood to work. We use English Ash for all our Ash bodies and necks also. There are plenty of home grown alternatives which are suitable for every part of a guitar though people generally seem to stick with traditional guitar woods as it's what they are used to seeing. Here are a few: Oak Ash Elm Maple (AKA Sycamore) Walnut Cherry Lime Pear Plum Hornbeam Alder London Plane

Yes, it's perfectly possible, though retro fitting them is a much bigger job than starting from scratch due to the re fretting as howie mentioned. If you need another option send me a PM for a quote, though sounds like you have a couple of good candidates already.

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1429730055' post='2754429'] Agreed! TBH even if you practice on other basses, you'd still likely as not have chips/slivers out of the fingerboard when you defret. [/quote] Yep! You can minimise it by heating the frets with a soldering iron first and never pulling on the fret, just lever using the flush cutters. Standard practice for any fretboard (and put here for the sake of the OP), but Wenge and Ebony aren't very forgiving... Fortunately both patch up well though!

Yep, it'll work. You could leave it natural / oil it as if you would a Wenge neck. Or you could give it a hard Epoxy or CA finish if you don't want to feel and see the pores as well as toughening it up. Though even left natural it's similar in hardness to Rosewood. Be VERY careful defretting it, it will chip! If you haven't done it before it may be best to either do a practice one on rosewood or Maple or pay a luthier to do it for you.

[quote name='fingerz' timestamp='1429435988' post='2751290'] Has anyone mentioned the bridge?! You will probably need to fit a narrower spaced bridge to stop your strings disappearing off the side of your fingerboard of your narrowed neck. You may wish to cut a new nut too to keep a familiar tapered feel, this might also be essential if you are shaving the neck all the way up to the headstock (assume you'd have to?). [/quote] No, a different bridge would not be necessary unless the nut width was remaining the same (or similar) and the heel narrowed. However what Paul wanted was the opposite; the nut narrowing and the heel remaining the same (to fit the body!). So a new nut would of course be an essential part of the job.....Kind of irrelevant now anyway as Paul has decided not to have anything done to the bass .

That's a myth about over sanding, in the past I have polished wood to 12000 (yes thousand!) with Micro Mesh before applying a homemade oil/poly finish and it gives a lovely finished product. This was done as an experiment to achieve an as thin as possible homemade finish, where the wood itself shines (requiring less coats of finish). I'm not suggesting you do this, as it's not necessary for a traditional oil finish to sand this fine. Sanding bare wood beyond 400/600 for a traditional oil finish can be a bit redundant as the scratch pattern is quite fine by these grades. It's also a bit of a myth that the oil penetrates the wood deeply, whereas in actual fact it does not penetrate any further than 0.5 mm at an absolute max. Danish Oil is a wiping varnish as opposed to a pure oil, so it is designed to sit on top of the wood. Also keep in mind that the actual body you receive may not be fit for a natural finish....so have a plan B!

When you say you "adjust the trussrod but nothing" do you mean it does not solve your problem, or that it literally does nothing and does not adjust the relief? What is the relief like? The truss rod does not set the action, just the relief so if your trying to adjust your action using the truss rod...stop it . Assuming you knew that and that the relief is correct, it sounds like either the belly of the guitar has bulged, or the neck angle has changed. Both are big jobs to put right. It may help a little to string up with some light (or extra light) gauge strings and give it a little while to settle with them before checking again to see if things have improved .

As others have said it'd be a big job to narrow the neck. Andy is on the money with his approach, defret, rout the new taper and blend with headstock, re bind, re fret, refinish...oh and obviously make a new nut! So it's quite a serious amount of work! A new neck would have more benefits; you could have it exactly as you want it, keep the original undamaged and would actually probably be cheaper....We make custom necks by the way .

It's certainly something you can achieve and on a bass of that price you really haven't got much to lose! Modern frets have a LOT of material there before you are in any danger of running out of wire. I'm guessing you already know the process from videos etc, so I won't go into that, but if you have isolated fret buzz at the 11th fret you definitely have a high fret. Any rock with your short straight edge indicates a problem which needs to be dealt with. If you view it at eye level you will see which fret it is rocking on, but level them all, not just that one. Also ignore videos you see using a radius block to level frets....it's not the right way to do it. Protecting the fingerboard with masking tape was not a bad move at all.

That's very kind, thank you!

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1427490498' post='2731186'] That's sweet - The new fingerboard and binding is a little dazzling against the much much older finish - but with strings and a polish it'll look a real treat. That "racing stripe" is very groovy! [/quote] Thanks, I think the stripe is a cool feature too! Yes, there is a bit of a clash between old and new at the moment, but as you say after the strings go on and the body polished it should be less of a clash, also once the board is oiled it will go a fair bit darker and blend nicely. [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1427499566' post='2731315'] This is coming along nicely..! Excellent pics, and interesting explanations. It all looks so easy from this side of the screen..! [/quote] Thank you, ha yes....probably looks quick too! [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1427541142' post='2731531'] Wonderful job - shame about the F-holes though. Is there no way you can blend in a colour to closely match the sunburst? [/quote] Thanks! Yes, it's a shame about the F-holes, though fortunately the bass side one isn't too noticeable (compared to the other!) and the treble will be covered by a pickguard . A repair would be possible but I don't believe it'd ever be invisible on close inspection unless the whole top was refinished and I'd rather have a bit of honest damage than an obvious repair.

I've had a bit of a break from this project (working on other people guitars!), but have now made some meaningful progress. This update is all about the fingerboard, so it's more standard guitar building than restoration. This is the fingerboard I will be using, a preslotted (19 frets) rosewood board with good figure. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20Fretboard%20blank.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20Fretboard%20blank.jpg[/IMG][/URL] The first job was to the taper the fingerboard to the neck. This was done by first making a template then using this template to rout the fingerboard. Now the guitar earns it's stripes...Literally! The Cromwell guitars often featured a rather attractive touch, having either one or two binding stripes down the fingerboard. For a guitar of this era a single stripe was more common, so that's what I have gone with! This slot was cut in the same way I would a truss rod (though much narrower and shallower!). Please excuse the white double sided tape residue. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20stripe.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20stripe.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Next the board was given it's radius, then the inlay installed. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20inlay.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20inlay.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Before the binding gets fitted I ensure all fret slots are cut to the correct depth after the radiusing. This is done with a saw and depth stop. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20cutting%20slots.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20cutting%20slots.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Binding glued and being planed to the board using a small block plane. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20planing%20binding.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20planing%20binding.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I now move onto fretting. Tapping them in before the board was glued to the neck made the most sense to avoid hammering onto the guitar and having to support the neck. The wire is pre bent and the tang removed from each end, the section beyond the tang is not yet cut to size (so there isn't as much tang missing as it looks) [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/4aecbc39-cf57-41da-80da-18d8d6410f8b.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/4aecbc39-cf57-41da-80da-18d8d6410f8b.jpg[/IMG][/URL] The surface of the neck needed planing as previous fingerboards (!) had left pieces behind and a lot of glue. I used the two planes here for this task removing very little material. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/2325b72a-4ab8-4f8e-8858-5282f3e42fb8.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/2325b72a-4ab8-4f8e-8858-5282f3e42fb8.jpg[/IMG][/URL] You'll notice here there is a fret missing...well actually there are two missing, one towards the heel and the first one (pictured here). These two will be installed after the fingerboard has been glued to the neck so I can utilise the slots for alingment pins, this ensures the neck does not slip during glue up. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/b612e021-f4d6-4b62-8a89-0fa5a3df14a4.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/b612e021-f4d6-4b62-8a89-0fa5a3df14a4.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Here you can see the frets have been beveled and the side dots fitted. These jobs were actually completed before the board was glued but I didn't get a picture till after. So here the board has now been glued up. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20side%20dots.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20side%20dots.jpg[/IMG][/URL] A shot of the fingerboard post glue up! [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20Fretboard%20on%203.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20Fretboard%20on%203.jpg[/IMG][/URL] A shot of the full guitar [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/c7881cf3-5be1-4ff0-b41e-cfd9d3b7af30.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/c7881cf3-5be1-4ff0-b41e-cfd9d3b7af30.jpg[/IMG][/URL] The Cromwell in it's natural habitat! [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20Fretboard%20on.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/Gibson%20Cromwell%20G4%20Manton%20Customs%20Restoration%20Fretboard%20on.jpg[/IMG][/URL] That's all for now, thanks for checking this restoration out More soon!

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1427406574' post='2730134'] This thread has me wondering how frets are levelled with a graphite neck that has a predetermined amount of relief and no truss rod installed (this is based on me believing that you need to have a level fingerboard before you can level the frets). [/quote] Glad you got it sorted 40hz Regarding fret leveling, yes you ideally want a level fretboard to start with. Hopefully the neck should be straight after the strings are removed, it's the strings which will pull the neck and give the minimal amount of relief necessary. So in an ideal world, the strings would be removed and the neck will be straight. However it is also possible to give the fret tops them selves relief if necessary, as long as the arc is gradual it will work. Double basses often have their fingerboards prepared in this way (relief planed into the board), though I believe Graphite necks are usually built straight and to give to a certain extent with the string tension, so picking the right strings is important.

Nitro has a curing time of a couple of weeks minimum, so if it's been less time than that, this is your issue. It might feel dry, but it is in fact not yet fully cured. It will also shrink during this curing period, which is one of the reasons why buffing is left until after the finish has fully cured.

Sounds like a plan! Remember to capo/fret the first and last fret as Big Rob describes, this basically uses your string as a straight edge against the frets. Feel free to take a pic of this also . I'm guessing you measured your string height before, rather than relief/bow? If it turns out your frets are the problem, it's not an expensive job to get them leveled somewhere locally, then you will be able to get it playing as well as your Jazz .

It makes sense you are getting more buzz with light gauge strings as there is more movement in them compared to heavier gauge strings. They would have also taken some of the relief out the neck. Though if setup correctly they shouldn't be causing you any problems. Frets 3 through 8 are where it would buzz if there was not enough relief, so doing as suggested above would be a good idea to get an accurate measurement of the relief. After removing the heavier gauge strings the neck would also have less relief and possibly a backbow. So it would make sense that your problem is actually being caused by not enough relief. A high fret or two around this area could also be causing your troubles, but check the relief first.

How much relief are we talking? 1, Struggling! I have seen a threads with people struggling with graphite necks and no truss rod, sometimes a fret level can solve it, however if the relief measurement is larger than the amount of material that is safe to remove from the fret height then they have to remove the frets and level the fingerboard....not good! 2, Where abouts on the A and D, all frets or just a few? It could well need some fretwork, not necessarily wear, they could have never been level or a fret or two has popped up a bit under the A and D. I'd suspect the first couple of frets as you're having to run a lot of relief.

With those figures I'd imagine it'd be at the 12th fret though it could easily be the 17th as there isn't anything in it if you were to measure at the 17th as the Fender guide instructs. It's important not to get too fixed up on numbers, they are just given for approximate guidelines. The correct action height should be found for each instrument and each player and not setup to numbers which may or may not suit the player and the state of the frets.

If you don't have any luck finding a cheap one we could make you one to your specs, send a PM or email if you're interested.

Thanks Andy

Thanks a lot Howie! It's a lot of work, but the guitars worth saving...and it's fun!