Manton Customs

[quote name='rk7' timestamp='1397290274' post='2422469'] Brilliant. A really informative thread. Looking forward to more of the same? A honing guide is now on my shopping list. I recently had a go at refurbing an old plane my Dad gave me. Mixed results, but an overall improvement. Thanks for this thread RK [/quote] Thank you, I'm glad you liked it. Yes I do intend on putting up a few other tutorials, hand plane use being one of them as they are a very useful tool which few people actually bother with these days.

If its a poly finish it should buff back up as long as you didn't scratch it too deeply, micro mesh or automotive polishing compound should both work. I have had more luck with polishing compound though, Autosol was the brand which has worked well for me.

[quote name='davedave' timestamp='1396429190' post='2413361'] Thanks very much for this. I'm a very inexperienced builder without a woodworking background. Stuff like this is incredibly useful. Dave. [/quote] You're welcome Dave, really glad to help you on your way.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1394958533' post='2396993'] Water based will penetrate too, actually I think it's a mixture of water and alcohol but I don't suppose that is important.. I'm guessing at the finish you are after but it sounds as if you want something like a 'limed' effect but black not white. Lime is applied as a paste and because it is made of particles not dissolved pigment it won't penetrate but sit on the surface and in the grain. Then if you sand back it exposes the wood but leaves the white in the grain. Nowadays people use liming wax or even eggshell paint to achieve the effect. [url="http://voices.yahoo.com/how-create-aged-effect-liming-wood-2549318.html"]http://voices.yahoo....od-2549318.html[/url] You might be able to do this with black paint. [/quote] Actually it won't penertrate deeply on the surface, it will penertrate deep into the grain and end grain but a quick sand back (even with 400) will easily remove it from the surface. This is a common procedure on working with a lot of woods. Firstly, applying a coat of dye and then sanding it off to leave it only in the grain, after which applying a second final coat. It works especially well on quilted and flamed Maple to "pop" the grain. Post number 3 above gives an example of what we are talking about. Whether that was done with dye or filler I don't know but both will work. If you take a look at my website "The Immortal" looked just like this before having its final coat. Trying on scrap is a good idea!

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1394747192' post='2394854'] Yes that is exactly the look I had in mind. I'm not looking for a glass smooth look. I like the wood to have more of a natural feel to it. So, simply dyeing with a dark dye and then sanding back should give me the dyed grain figuring (I guess where the dye is taken deeper) and lighter patches inbetween ? Would it be critical what type of wood dye I used ? I've used the Colron refined wood dyes (from B&Q) before on a mahogany P body before to good effect. I still have a load of it left in a dark mahogany colour, which might be nice to emphasize the grain of the ash. [/quote] I cant speak for the bass posted as there may be a slightly different process there, (I suspect grain filling) though I have achieved very similar results by dyeing and sanding back. Sand up through the grits (raise the grain multiple times if you're using water based dye), apply dye to the whole body then sand back to a level where you want it. The black will stay in the deep grain but be removed from the surface. Experiment and see what you like, its easy to remove if you get it wrong .

You have a few options, if you want a smooth finish with no visible (edit: open) pores the best option is to grain fill with a black filler. Dyeing and sanding back is also an option but then you will still have a visible pores (black ones!), which can look cool if that is what you're after. It depends if you're after a more natural look where you can feel the grain, or a glass smooth one...if the latter grain fill .

Thank you , glad you like it.

[color=#333333]Now with all those nice sharp chisels (see tutorial in sig) I get to work![/color] [color=#333333]Here I'm chiseling out those troublesome pickup corners mentioned earlier. I say troublesome as a pickup usually has 4 corners but these have 7...and there are two pickups, so 14 corners! It wasn't too bad really though and was completed in around an hour. The key to good results is using the edges (which should be dead straight!) of the pickup rout as a guide by resting the back of the blade against them and using the chisels almost like a plane. Just don't try and take too much off in one go or it'll chip and look awful![/color] [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/chiselling1.jpg.html"][/url] [color=#333333][size=3]Here are the pickups roughly in place, I have also drilled the holes for the pickup wires, as you can see them coming out the back.[/size][/color] [color=#333333][size=3][url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/pickupsin2.jpg.html"][/url][/size][/color] [color=#333333]The jack drilled for, I'm using a Gotoh football style jack plate with a switchcraft jack. That's now the body done except for some minor tidy ups and sanding.[/color] [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/jackdrilled4.jpg.html"][/url] [color=#333333]Onto one of the final jobs on the neck...drilling for the tuners. It is important to make sure they are symmetrical and none of them interfere with each other.[/color] [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/tunersdrilled3.jpg.html"][/url] A Mockup of the body [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/mockupbody5.jpg.html"][/url] [color=#333333]A full mockup picture. There isn't a lot of work left now really, just sanding finishing, assembly and setup.[/color] [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/fullmockup6.jpg.html"][/url] That's all for now, thank you for stopping by

[quote name='Dolando' timestamp='1394549388' post='2392548'] I did think that might be an issue. That bandsaw has been sold now, but I think if I'm going to be spending that kind of money on one, then i might as well hold off for a bigger one. There always seems to be plenty going up on ebay etc. so will keep an eye out. But if the right jigsaw goes for the right price i'll probably get it to get me started and do what you said with the bushing. Are those the Axcaliber ones? I was tempted by one of those, but wasn't sure how good they would be for that price. Thanks. [/quote] Yep, the Axcaliber ones, they cut very cleanly and tear out is rare unless you do something silly, the 3/4" one I use for bodies has lasted well so far too.

Difficult to tell from the picture, but I think its Ash as it looks too porous to be Alder. Swamp Ash is the same as Northern Ash, just a weight classification really (swamp=light).

[quote name='Dolando' timestamp='1394532571' post='2392229'] Yea, thats what i've always been told. I'd want to get a good one as i'll probably do at least couple of bodies with it, and its a handy tool to have around the house. I'll keep an eye out for a bandsaw, but will probably get a jigsaw. Theres one of these being sold on ebay by axminster thats a returned item on for £170 delivered. Seems to get decent reviews, but as you say, the table isn't very big. [url="http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-hobby-series-awhbs250n-bandsaw"]http://www.axminster...hbs250n-bandsaw[/url] [/quote] Ah, if you don't own either yet, I'd definitely go for the bandsaw, don't be afraid to buy used either as they last forever (unlike jigsaws). What you can do if using a small bandsaw is to draw your outline/attach template to both sides of the body, that way you when you cant cut any further because of the throat size of the saw, just turn the body over. That bandsaw you posted the link to has just under a 10" throat, which means that's the max width you can cut, a Jazz body (being one of the widest you're likely to cut) is around 14" but only across the bouts which you can get to easy enough as they're on the edges. The area you may find tricky is the cutaway, which is when you may need to flip the body over. As said above, even cheap bandsaws work very well, will cut straight and a lot faster than a jigsaw. Just buy a decent blade for it with a pitch of around 4tpi. The problem with leaving too much wood on is that you will experience tear out if you aren't very careful, which is why I suggested the bushing to trim it closer. If you are thinking of shopping at Axminster their own brand router bits are very good, get the 3/4 top bearing guided one for cutting out your body...They make lovely shavings! Rather than dust which some cheap brands do.

That's a nice blank! Rather than trying a jigsaw is there anyone locally that might be able to cut the body out for you on a bandsaw? Cutting stock that thick with a jigsaw is a bit of a risk due to the blade flexing, even when you think you're a long way from the line. What I'd suggest (if you cant find someone with a bandsaw) is to cut it out around 1/2" away from the line with the jigsaw then follow with a template bushing on the router and a long bit using multiple passes. The bushing will leave a little extra which can then be trimmed with a bearing guided bit....or just include the bushing offset on your template

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1393446099' post='2380484'] Indeed, useful stuff here. I built a bass in my parents shed when I was 18 and had no idea about sharpening tools. A few years later, I got hold of a Japanese water stone and a honing guide and learned how to do it properly. The first time I did anything using properly sharp tools, I was startled at just how much easier woodworking became. I've never tried finishing them with a strop, but I have a scrap of thick saddlery strap somewhere, so I might give it a go. [/quote] Thanks. Yeah, I think a lot of people probably fall into the same camp you were in before learning, so thought this may be a useful tutorial. As well as being easier to work with sharp tools, its also safer. That sounds like it would work well, give it a go!

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1393367230' post='2379527'] Excellent tutorial - thanks for taking the time to post that. I may print it out and leave it in my workshop - not that I do any luthiering but I'm always fiddling with bits of wood and I really should buy a honing guide instead of doing things by eye (badly). I also had never thought of finishing off with a leather strop. I've seen them used with razors but never thought of using one on chisels. It always amazes me how leather can sharpen steel! Where did you buy your strop? [/quote] Thank you, no problem, I like sharing stuff like this. Ah, that's how I got started really...carving bits of wood at a young age and progressing onto guitars! Yes, a honing guide is a really good idea, you'll get great results first time I bet. A strop can be as simple as a leather belt to get you started, though it would be easier to use once attached to a flat piece of wood. Some prefer a smooth leather while others suede, I prefer suede personally as it just seems to work better for me. Either way you can attach your chosen piece of leather to a piece of wood, just make sure its flat, other than that it can be as fancy or rough as you like. Threedaymonk: Glad you like it, I have a lot of tools from my grandad also and love to use them, in fact one of the strops I have was his. I haven't tried making my own glue before though! Though hide glue works great, which I imagine would be a similar type of thing. Thanks all, I'm glad it has proved useful.

Thank you both, that'd be great, I'd love to have a thread pinned.

Hello all, I just thought I would share this tutorial on sharpening which I have put together. I had a full set of chisels to sharpen and thought I would make it a bit more interesting by taking pictures as I go. I'm sure some of the newer people to instrument building will find it useful a long with anyone who perhaps hasn't fully utilised these wonderfully versatile tools in their work. I'm sharpening chisels in the pictures, but the process is pretty much the same for plane and spoke-shave irons. [b][u]Chisels[/u][/b] As we are working on chisels here I'll go into a bit of detail on them. The set you will see below is a vintage set made by Marples, Sheffield dating to probably around 100 years ago. I would advise anyone who is seriously interested in instrument building to buy vintage rather than new, there was a quality to the steel back then which doesn't seem to be matched these days. I'm sure if you were going to spend a lot of money you could get something of similar quality, but the cheaper brands just don't compare. Another great thing about vintage ones is that they are cheap to purchase and once you have done they will last you your life. Some makers of chisels to look out for are Sorby, Marples and Ward. Marples are in fact still going, but the quality is not the same. [b]Ok, lets begin![/b] Here are the very few tools you will need: An Oil Stone, a Honing Guide and some Cutting Oil....plus whatever you will be sharpening! [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/9d01e69c-8040-4c56-bb78-c46423d2b9ba.jpg.html"][/url] Firstly you will need to make sure your Oil Stone is flat, if it is not as this one pictured here isn't, you will need to lap it flat. This can be done over a coarse grit paper attached to a flat surface, the stone is then pushed over this till dead flat (keep checking with a straight edge). [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/1b.jpg.html"][/url] Lets now take a look at the state of the chisels we are going to be working on, or more specifically the bevel. The bevel is the sloped cutting edge, this can vary from 25 degrees to up to 45. Shallower angles are better for shaving while more steep ones for chopping type jobs. In guitar building the latter is rare, so we are going for a 25 degree bevel. The chisels currently have around a 30 degree bevel, so there is going to be quite a bit more work here than simply honing the cutting edge...we need to create a new bevel (or rather re-shape it). As you can see the blade is in good condition with no chips to the edge, if chips were present we would need to re grind it completely on a bench grinder. Another great thing about chisels...they're pretty much indestructible as you can always grind a new cutting edge! [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/7ede93b2-a412-4e2c-80aa-31317eace065.jpg.html"][/url] Now lets look at the honing guide, this is the device that holds the chisel at a fixed angle. You will see the different angles mentioned on the guide with a measurment next to it. This is how far the blade needs to project in front of the guide, for a 25 degree bevel we need 25 mm of blade in front of the guide (as pictured). [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/72f74a7f-7865-42ad-a85e-1bc376b43dad.jpg.html"][/url] Here is the guide in action, the oil stone has been wet with cutting oil and the guide with chisel attached is pushed and pulled backwards and forwards. At first in both direction (back and forth) until we get close to the finish, when it is only pulled along the stone. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/eaed2cdc-c753-4440-8b0b-c1bd7089f8cc.jpg.html"][/url] You need to be careful to distribute pressure across the guide or you will end up like the picture below (see how the right edge is higher than the left?), this is no big deal, it just means you need to put more pressure on the other corner until it evens out. Don't think you can just put even pressure on it and get it right...you cant! You need to keep checking your progress and putting pressure on different points. You should be able to see what we are aiming for now, we want that silver line close to the edge to come all the way down to the cutting edge. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/5uneven.jpg.html"][/url] Here you can see we are nearly there, you can just see a tiny silver line on the right edge. This shiny part has yet to be touched by the stone, all the previous grinding has just been grinding the bevel. So we keep going until it has vanished! [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/6nearlythere.jpg.html"][/url] And here we have reached the cutting edge, this is how it should look before progressing onto the finer side of the stone. After a few strokes over the fine side you should be noticing a burr on the back edge (flat side) of the chisel, you want this to be quite pronounced before moving on. Feel for the burr with your thumb nail, you will notice it catch and take a tiny part of your nail with it! [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/7done.jpg.html"][/url] Now we have to remove the burr we have just created, this is done by rubbing the back side along the stone like the picture below. Once you no longer feel a burr on this side, check the other side, it will almost certainly be there having bent over from the flat side, so a couple more passes on this side over the fine stone. Repeat this till there is no burr on either side. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/8burrremoval.jpg.html"][/url] How do you know when you are done and your chisel is sharp?...When it does this! All that hair you see is from my arm, a sharp chisel should be able to shave the hairs off your arm easily. If it does not, repeat the last couple of steps (creating the burr and removing the burr) until it does. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/9itssharp.jpg.html"][/url] The final step is a process called stropping, this gives the blade a bit of polish and sharpens even further. Its basically rubbing it up and down a piece of smooth leather as you may have seen people do with straight razors on TV. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/10stropping.jpg.html"][/url] And here are the chisels with their new bevel all done and ready for the next job. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/11finished.jpg.html"][/url] Thank you for reading this, I hope its clear enough and it helps someone.

Next up is the pickup routs. This bass is having twin P pickups which are a fiddly shape to make a template for. But here it is attached! The front pickup is in the traditional place for a Precision pickup (though scaled down with the 32" scale) and the bridge pickup is in a similar place to a Jazz Bass. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/pickuptemplate.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/pickuptemplate.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Here it is with the pickups routed, the line behind the bridge pickup is where the bridge will be mounted to give an idea of scale. You'll notice the corners of the pickups are still rounded, as the bearing of the cutter cant get to these. There are a few ways of dealing with these, but as I'm fairly proficient with chisels these are going to be cut with a few chisels a bit later on. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/pickupsrouted.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/pickupsrouted.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Now onto the control cavity. A nice messy action shot here! I just love the shavings Forstner bits create, so thought I'd share a picture of them. To get to this step a template was made, the pots drilled for, then the bulk drilled out with Forstner bits to save on the router cutter.....and make pretty shavings! [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/forstnerbitcavity.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/forstnerbitcavity.jpg[/IMG][/URL] The finished cavity, the lid will be routed for with a rabbetting bit when the majority of the sanding has taken place. [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/back.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/back.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I realised I didn't have a shot of the side showing the construction, so here is one! [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/side.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/side.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Here is where we currently are with the body. Basically done except the pickup corners, cavity lid and a whole lot of sanding! [URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/front.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u425/Manton-Customs/front.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Thanks for checking this build out .

Something to consider could be where you're storing the bass, you sound like you're already familiar with the do's and don'ts, but in front of any heat sources or air conditioners isn't good. Going from extremes in temperature isn't going to help either, though sometimes unavoidable. I'm sure you already knew all that though, but thought I'd mention it just in case. It does sound to me like you just have an unstable neck, where there sadly isn't much you can do to it. I don't believe adding carbon fibre rods would be the answer as there is still a risk it would not solve your problem and it would be fairly costly. So a replacement neck may well be your best bet. A standard one piece (plus fingerboard) would probably serve you well as long as its stable this time round. Though an interesting idea may be to look into a laminated neck which would make a more unique, much more stable and (in my opinion) cool looking neck! I hope I'm not braking any rules of the forum by saying we offer a custom neck making service should you choose to go this route.

Thank you very much!

Hello all, I have always been a huge fan of this forum but have just lurked around before. So having this bass to work on I saw it as a great chance to share something. This is a build I have been working on for a while, it is a bass version of the Sirius guitar (pic below). It is a 32" scale 4 string bass. The top and back is of Cherry with an English Maple core. The neck features the same woods, a three piece laminate construction with a fingerboard again of English Maple. So 10 pieces of wood from only two species! Electronics wise its going to be passive with two Kent Armstrong precision pickups. The bass was actually started over a year ago now, but I got so busy with commissions this build had to wait. Unfortunately I didn't start taking pictures at the begining of the build, so the first picture you see is when I started documenting the build. This is where I started documenting the progress. The shape has been cut out and the roundover to the body cut, though the neck profile has yet to be carved. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/bassguitars.png.html"][/url] This is the little brother of the bass, the Sirius guitar. The same three woods were used for this instrument also. Though the body is a single piece of Cherry here, as apposed to the 6 pieces used for the bass body. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/guitars.png.html"][/url] Time to polish the fingerboard to a high gloss; this was done with Micro-Mesh upto 12000 grit. There is no finish on the board here, the shine you see is just from the polished wood. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/fretboard.jpg.html"][/url] Next, I installed the frets. I prefer a hammer to do this as it's nice and quick (30 mins max) and gives good results. The wire is pre bent using a fret bender before this. I don't have a picture of this, in the picture here I'm beveling the fret ends using a home made tool which holds the file at the correct angle...It looks a little rough as it has been well used! [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/fretbevel.jpg.html"][/url] After that I level with an oil stone and crown with a crowning file. Then I sand/file smooth all sharp corners. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/fretwork.jpg.html"][/url] Onto neck carving, the most enjoyable part of the whole build for me! I start by marking up the facets which will create the rough shape, then carve to these facets. Following this more facets are drawn and carved and we are getting close to final shape, where it is then sanded to the finished contour. All of this is mainly done with the tools you see here, a Drawknife and Surform (not pictured) for removing the main meat of the neck, then spokeshave and micro plane rasp for the more detailed areas. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/neckcarve-1.jpg.html"][/url] Here is the neck nearly finished, it still needs a lot of sanding but its close! [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/bass2.jpg.html"][/url] Jumping to body now, where I have drilled for the neck attachment ferrules and bolts. I have also made up a pickup template, so next update I'll be routing for the pickups. [url="http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Manton-Customs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/bass4.jpg.html"][/url] That's all for now, check back for more updates soon. Thank you for checking out this build.