Dingus

[quote name='Duarte' timestamp='1348090755' post='1809307'] [/quote] This thing looks killer, although not in that colour , if you know what I mean. I would buy one of these like a shot. I have never liked the Big Al, but have daydreamed more than once about the three single coils on a more conventionally shaped Musicman bass, only to find out now that it nearly happened a long time ago!

[quote name='far0n' timestamp='1347999985' post='1808021'] Here you go chaps, a quick video of me playing the ASAT. Monster tone... best bass I've had by a country mile. [media]http://youtu.be/fMcuulkkKao[/media] [/quote] Very nice playing , great sounding bass and an interesting and unusual choice for a bass cover. Good work all round.

[quote name='apa' timestamp='1347982244' post='1807631'] I cant stand Mayor of Simpleton (Life long XTC fanboy here) but its nice to see Colin getting another love fest Colin and the boys are bloody good musicians full stop. (Even Barry Andrews had his moments ) A [/quote] I think it is no exaggeration to say that as musicians , XTC have more good ideas in one song than some bands have in their entire carreers. Not just Colin Moulding either ; Dave Gregory was/is a supremely creative guitarist with all kinds of subtleties in his playing .

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1348007861' post='1808189'] It's pao ferro (as featured on fretless Musicman basses) - I agree it looks a bit insipidon that wide 6 string neck, but the 4 string Ray looked far better - the varnished birds eye maple headstock helps - not visible in the Bongo pic. [/quote] Pao ferro is a great sounding wood for fingerboards- kind of a halfway sound between maple and rosewood is how a luthier once descibed it to me, and I would have to say that I agree. Its quite a bit harder than rosewood, so thats probably why it's a bit brighter sounding . They use it for fingerboards on the top of the range U.S.A Spector basses and for the fretless EBMM basses , if I remember correctly. I like the way it looks- kind of pinky brown- and I'm a bit surprised that anyone could find it so offensive, but it just shows you how tastes can differ.

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1348003046' post='1808087'] Interesting. Never realised this. Thanks for posting. CB [/quote] EBMM drafted in the Dreamworks design team after Sterling Ball read a newspaper article on them and their work for B.M.W and realised that they were located close to the E.B.M.M headquarters in California. (B.M.W use an American design consultancy because North America is by far their biggest market , and so therefore are keen to maximise the appeal of their cars to the sensibilities of American consumers.) The bass got it's name because Sterling Ball found out that the codename Dreamworks used for the secret B.M.W project they were working on at the time was Bongo, hence the Musicman Bongo bass. Somewhere out there on the internet is the rough drawings of the prototypes for the Bongo that Dreamworks submitted to Sterling Ball, and they look even more futuristic than the final product. Someone did something right, anyway, because the Bongo is one of the best designed basses of all time , in my estimation.

I am not too keen on this particular burst, be it on a Bongo or any other bass for that matter, but as ever, each to their own taste. I think Bongos look good in solid colours- apparently a lot of the original colour options for these basses were chosen to reflect the range of colours for B.M.W cars at that time, as a reference to the BMW / Dreamworks design team who helped with the design of the bass.

The bassline on the Barney Miller theme was played by Chuck Berghofer, but is often miscredited to Chuck Rainey or Carol Kaye.

Wow ,this thread is bringing back some memories already ! Are XTC indie though? I wouldn't class them as such - Virgin were a pretty mainstream label by the late 70s' , if not technically one of the majors - but they were bloody brilliant musicians, regardless. As ahpook points out , Colin Moulding is a bona fide genius of the bassline . He should get a lot more recognition than he has done up to now. Andy Rourke was always a cut above most other indie bass players too . His lines were always inventive, interesting and a lot harder to figure out how to play than you might think, and he had a great sound too.

I've noticed a difference in feel - through the body feels tighter- but not in sound. I would be amazed if anyone could really hear much of difference in tone between the two stringing methods.

I've just been having another look at this bass, and do you know what... IT'S GROWING ON ME! If Warwick were to give me one ( and somehow find a way to make me twenty years younger and three stone lighter) I would definately love to get out there and be gigging this thing in a heavy metal band the length and breadth of Britain and, indeed the world. It's still a painful memory ( literally) , but my own career in the world of hard rock was cut tragically short by a rare medical condition that means I am unable to wear leather trousers for any length of time , but I can still look at basses like this and dream about what might have been. I just wish they had made it a slightly lighter shade of green so it looked like the big green chocolate triangle things in a box of Quality Street .

Apparently Gainsbourg used a few bass players during his classic era, including Russ Stableford and also Brian Odgers, ( basically, along with Herbie , the top session players in London during this era) but a lot of tracks were Herbie Flowers . As might be expected, there is by now some disagreement as to who played on the final version of which track ( similar to the whole Jamerson-Carol Kaye controversy/debate). The upside is that they were all great.

Perhaps there is a divergence of opinion here because of differing ideas of what is meant by tension. When I refer to tension , I mean in the pragmatic sense of how stiff the string feels and how hard or easy it is to press down , rather than measured pounds of tension. I don't have the means ( or inclination) to measure the tension in any other way than how a bass feels to play, and different brands of strings in the same gauge can feel very different. Picato roundwounds feel very stiff to me, for example, whereas Warwick Black Label feel much more pliable. It's something I am very attuned to because I hate very stiff feeling strings, and always have done. The shape of the core wire and ratio of core wire to outer wrap both effect this characteristic. Look at the diffence in feel between DR Hi Beams and Lo Riders, for example. And most mainstream brands of flats feel very, very stiff to someone used to roundwounds. It may be- I really don't know the answer- that compliance ( stiffness) and tension are not technically the same thing despite bearing some relationship to each other, hence various posters ( including me) talking at cross purposes.

This whole relicing thing has gotten a bit out of hand, in my opinion. The whole concept of paying more for something because it's got a kind of faux-knackered appearence goes against the grain with me. It's so fake that I can't think of anything less rock and roll, to be honest with you. Whoever buys a reliced instrument should be made to justify the extra expence to their mum, wife or girlfriend. Where will it all end? Will I end up going to Comet and buying a fridge that looks like it 's been used in a student house since 1974?( Both vintage and relic there .) A reliced toilet would actually be quite a good idea- you could get away with not cleaning it very often.

A truly magnificent bass player. His electric bass playing on some of those old Serge Gainsbourg records is absolutely sublime- well worth checking out.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1347799975' post='1805088'] I would seriously doubt that the "extra" metal needed to make a set of flats would generate any noticeable difference in the eventual retail price. With a relatively boutique item such as flatwound strings for bass guitars, the cost of raw materials is utterly negligible. [/quote] The economics of manufacturing are such that small differences in prices of raw materials can make the difference between profit and loss, and so ultimately greater costs have to be passesd on to the consumer. Look at the fluctuating price of metals on the commodities markets -try telling the large string manufacturers that the cost of these commodities is of little or no relevance to them and I expect they would have an unequivocal response.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1347801078' post='1805117'] This is not at all obviously true. In fact, given that roundwound strings have a spherical wrap while flatwound have a tape wrap (not exactly a 'solid bar') it seems quite possible that there's less metal in a flatwound. I expect it also varies greatly between different manufacturers. But not all flatwounds do 'feel tighter' (i.e. compliance) nor do they all have higher tension (e.g. TI Jazz Flats). [/quote] I mean that they are a solid bar in appearence , as opposed to the serrated edge of a roundwound string . There is more metal in a flatwound. If you were to weigh the tape wrap of a flatwound , it would in the vast majority of cases be heavier than the same-gauge rounwound wire equivalent. Regarding tension, there are also other factors involved in string design which can effect tension apart from mass , most obviously the ratio between core wire and outer wrap. Thomastic strings are are unique design, with a layer of cotton between core and outer wrap wire, along with other distinct design features that set them apart form most other strings. This is a big part of why they are so expensive. The vast majority of flatwound strings feel stiffer than their roundwound counterparts.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1347740350' post='1804593'] f***ing vile isn't it. But then so are black Fender Precisions with tort plates and rosewood boards. [/quote] Are you serious? I love a black Precision with a rosewood board and a tort plate! It's a classic colour scheme! Check out Roger Glover at the Royal Albert Hall with Deep Purple in 1969 doing that orchestral thing, or George Murray with David Bowie back in the 70s', both sporting P basses with this livery. I am genuinely surprised that you could find this so offensive , but it just goes to show how tastes can differ. One thing about looking on Basschat is that I am constantly surprised by some of the colour schemes and designs that people find attractive. Usually the more hideous it seems to me, the more people will drool over it in the For Sale section . On the subject of this Warwick, I think they have gone for a kind of studied ugliness that actually works quite well in a funny kind of way. Especially if you are a millionaire who gets most if his basses for free like Robert Trujillo. What I worry about is the poor saps who are now saving up to buy one of these things to be like their hero. I daren't even think what one of these might cost.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347790968' post='1804912'] Because hardly anyone uses them. Lets face it the only bassists in the UK who use flats are either Basschat regulars or those who bought their bass in the 50s or 60s and are still using the strings that came with it! [/quote] What you say here is largely true - roundwounds are still by far the most popular type of string- but since around the turn of the millienium , flatwounds have had a very significant resurgence in popularity. By the early 80s' nobody was using flats. They were as out of fashion as flared trousers or voting Labour. More recently however there has been a big upsurge in players trying to get that much more muted , thumpy sound again, a trend led largely by ultra high-cred session players like Pino Palladino, Justin Meldal Johnson , Chris Chaney and Sean Hurley. The prominance of self- consciously retrogressive styles in neo-soul and hiphop , along with the revival of so-called roots music , where producers and artists want to get a live sound that sounds like the the samples and the old records that have inspired them ,has led to the once seemingly- impossible rebirth of the flatwound bass sound. As a result ,far more "serious enthusiast" (i.e Basschat members) are considering using them than ever before. I'm sure that particulaly internet string retailers have noticed an marked upsurge in demand. Regarding the higher cost of flatwounds, for the most part it is because of the higher cost of producing them. Flatwound strings have got more metal in them than the equivalent gauge in roundwound strings, due to the fact that they have a greater mass because of the lack serrations from the outer wire wrap. Rounwound strings lose mass because of the gaps inbetween the wire wrapped round them, wheras flatwounds are a solid bar of metal, if you see what I mean. This is also why flatwounds feel tighter than the equivalent gauge in roundwound: tension is dictated not by the gauge of the string i.e overall circumferance, but rather by total mass, which is far greater in flatwound strings. More metal means more cost to the manufacturer which is reflected in the final retail price.

Steve Harris is an amazing bass player at what he does,and I can see why any player into that kind of music would be inspired by him, but it would be a big mistake to copy his equipment choices to try and emulate his sound. Like most truly exceptional players, Steve Harris has got a unique sound that is as much more about how he plays his bass as what actual basses and amps he uses. The first and most obvious mistake would be to start using those Rotosound Steve Harris strings; Steve is something of an enigma to most bass players , as we wonder how he can play those heavy gauge flatwound strings the way that he does without the need for daily hospital treatment. The most amazing thing to me about Iron Maiden is that he has actually got any fingers left after thirty -odd years of shredding them in the most unforgiving way imaginable. Steve Harris must have the strongest fingers of any man in history-I just hope he doesn't pick his nose or he risks pulling his own brains out! Its worth mentioning that those heavy gauge flatwounds can also put a very serious strain on the neck of your bass, so as I said, proceed with caution. A Precision bass is great choice of bass for any heavy rock music, though- in fact it's a great choice of bass for most kinds of music- so my advice would be to try a good Precision bass with sensible gauge roundwound strings through an amp you like the sound of and experiment with finding a sound that pleases you and works for you in any given musical situation i.e. if you are playing with other musicians, that yourself and the audience can hear what you are playing . If you are inspired by a particular player then that is great, but you will get far closer to the root of what makes them great by studying what they play ( listening to their records and working out how to play their basslines) than by copying their gear choices.

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1347581188' post='1802842'] The dangerous thing with Wal gas is that some people fall in love with the sound but then can't get on with the basses, especially those with a more pronounced 'V' shape in the neck. And they can be pretty damn heavy too! But I love them all the same. I look back and kick myself now, thinking of all the chances I had to grab one before the prices skyrocketed. I always thought 'nah, there is something else I should buy'. Then I discovered the Geddy Lee Wal sound and fell in love, but it was too late. [/quote] Chris has got a very good point here ; you will find no bigger fan of Wal basses than me - I played them for ten years- but they are a somewhat idiosyncratic design and definitely not for everyone. The sound is up there with anything at any price, and to my taste is better than most anything else on the market , but Wals do tend to have a particular neck shape that is not to everybodys taste, albeit that there is some variation in shape between different individual examples. As Chris also mentions, a lot of them are relatively heavy, but bear in mind that back in the day, weight was far less of an issue to people than it seems to be nowadays.. The good news is that if you were looking at getting a new Wal built for you , then Paul can easily make you whatever neck profile you like , and can also pick out some lighter woods to help with the weight . With the secondhand prices Wals are going for these days, if you can afford a used one then you might as well get a new one and have it just how you want. I have absolutely no doubt that the latest Wal basses are just as good as the vintage ones were, that's for sure.

I think people have very different ideas of what constitutes a "fancy" bass; to some people having a proper Fender is considered an extravagance, whereas to others having one of the more junior models in the Ken Smith or Alembic catalogue is seen as a utalitarian choice. In relation to your o.p , Alembic are an interesting point in case. I would consider them one of the more worthwhile fancy bass makers in so much as nothing else sounds quite like an Alembic- there is a significant end result to their design philosophy and their formiddable history as innovative guitar builders . The other side of the coin is the myryad of lesser bass builders nowadays who set out to make an exotic wood bass for the sake of it, on the basis that thats what fancy basses should look like because allegedly exotic wood yields an exotic tone and then if stick fancy bridge and pickups on there and then you have another fancy bass to compete with all the other fancy basses on the market. As a bass player in the audience watching other bass players , I would have to see which fancy bass they were playing, decide why they were playing it , and then make my decision on how ridiculous they might look. I have seen plenty of bass players who looked ridiculous with not- very -fancy basses, but that's a subject for another thread. In relation to your original question, I don't think you have to be a flamboyant player to have a more upmarket bass , and whats more, I don't think you have to have a fancy bass to be a flamboyant player. Look at what Billy Sheehan did on his old beat up Fender, or Jaco or Marcus Miller.

Serendipity! Strangly enough , I woke up today thinking about these beauties that I saw for the first time the other day , thinking " I've never seen the point of active Precision basses , but these look and sound mega! " : http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/09/02/xotic-introduces-4-string-version-of-xp-1t-bass/ That gold one is downright luscious, and the sunburst is a bit of alright too. On the question of whether the actives would be of any use, I think if you were to add a touch of bass and a touch of mid, it might bring out the P-Bass kind of sound even more in the right situation, but these can be switched to passive anyway, and look like they would be a great straight-ahead P style bass , regardless. I used an active Jazz Bass as my main bass for nearly nine years and used to set the pickup pan pot about 1/3 of the way past the centre detent towards the neck pickup with the bass and mids boosted slightly to get a Precision like sound and it worked really well. These Xotic basses ain't cheap, but they look lovely quality, and I particulaly like touches like the wooden pickup covers .

Try not to be too upset or dissappointed about missing out (for now, at least) on your dream bass, and look at the positives instead. Putting aside for the moment the fact that no bass in the world will ever be more important than your wife and family and looking at things strictly in bass terms, you've still got a Lakland ( be interested to know which one ) and an EBS rig to be going on with for now. That's not such a terrible combination when you think about it, is it? And you may find the space to store your EBS gear in the new place after all, even if you have to practise at home through a Korg Pandora or such like. As long as you've got a decent bass to play and practise on which doesn't hamper you're development as a player, the rest is pretty superfluous. And don't lose sight of the fact that when your financial situation improves you can look forward to choosing the spec your dream bass from John Shuker all over again . Buying basses is easy: all you need is money. It's learning to play them that's the most difficult ( and rewarding ) part. As the old saying goes , sometimes it's better to travel hopefully than to arrive. I have bought my dream bass on more than one occasion, and none of them significantly improved my happiness or my life. Trust me when I tell you that in the scheme of things , this is nothing worth getting upset over.

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1347250834' post='1798453'] +1,000 on ramble on. Just in case someone hasn't savoured this : (Utyub) /watch?v=3ANwQW8aspI Page & Jones' session experience were no small part in their amazing recorded sound - as was Pages producing skill. Those records a masterful - even if on they forgot the grease on since I've been loving you [/quote] Yes! I remember listening to the remastered cd of Led Zeppelin III and wondering what that squeaking was ( presumably Bonzos' kick drum pedal was the culprit.)

Absolutely wicked! I always liked these basses - I remember playing a one at the Bass Centre in Wapping and being blown away by how punchy it was and that it was the best bass I tried that day. One of the very best of the 80s', and I just wish that Vigiers were still styled like this one nowadays. A great purchase.