Dingus

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1349093653' post='1821606'] I do appreciate Geddy as a player and Rush do have some great songs. Speaking of Geddy, I met a player a few years back who used a Geddy Lee Fender Jazz. I know it has slightly different pup positions, but the growl he achieved was just crazy. It absolutely stole the show in terms of tone...although they were a bass dominant band with the guitars being audible but not the usual overbearing volume. He used a fairly normal 4x10 and amp, but the pedals he used (including a Sansamp) must have been setup to really push an aggressive tone. It was the perfect Jazz tone. [/quote] You will be able to get a comparable sound with what you have, just try experimenting at band rehearsals a bit, especially if someone is recording them. I have always found, right from the outset of when I started playing with other musicians , that you have to exaggerate all your amp settings in terms of e.q compared to when you are playing at home alone in order to be heard . The drums steal your lows, the cymbals steal your highs and the guitars suck out your mids.

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1349038362' post='1821051'] Never bored with BBs, I'm still looking for a BB2000. Missed one on eBay a few months back but I've got the BB1300 to console me as far as vintage awesomeness goes :-) [/quote] I would love one of these, too: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXe3WvJY2Q0[/media] What a fantastic sounding bass. Nothing sounds quite like these full-spec vintage Yamahas. I can't think of any bass from the present day that could substitute for that sound. ( Except for maybe another Yamaha) This BB from 1977 still delivers the goods too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWOvHj9emwM The young chap playing is from the U.K, so maybe he's on Basschat. He's a very good player, anyhow, and that bass sounds superb.

If it is any encouragement, I know for a fact that a growly ,cutting- through kind of a tone is definitely achievable with a Jazz. I expect that he is unlikely to be a player that you listen to or are are trying to emulate, but the venerable Geddy Lee , for example, uses a Jazz Bass with both pickups wide open to get his signature cutting-but-full tone with Rush nowadays. He uses all sorts of eq ( Sansamp and Orange amps at the moment, I believe) and a selective amount of distortion but every note is clearly audible. Its also possible that what people are hearing out front is different to your perception of the sound onstage, and that things aren't as bad as you think. The good news is that what's for certain is that the solution lies within the equipment you already have. It's just a question of experimenting with the bass , e.q and amplification that you have already shelled out for rather than throwing any more money at the problem, because if you can't get a sound with your Jazz that pleases you from your existing gear ( which is already some of the best that money can buy) then I would doubt very much anything else would bring the satisfaction you crave.

For me, the Jazz Bass has always been Ground Zero when it comes to basses. My first really good bass was one of the original JV series Squier Jazz Basses, and my most important development as a player - i.e going from not really having much of a clue what to do to being able to play a bit - was made on that bass , and so for me it's always a design I feel instantly comfortable with in terms of both sound and feel. It's a well-trodden path I know, but Jazz Basses are so versatile ; rock, funk, jazz, metal...they can do it all. Regarding getting a sound that cuts through a mix, the phenomena you describe where both pickups on full sounds fine when soloed but dissappears a bit in a band context is due , I believe, to a phenomena known as phase -cancellation. When both pickups are on full the overlapping midrange frequencies from each of the respective pickups cancels each other out, creating and apparent percievable scoop in the midrange and even a tangible drop in volume in some instances . This is not neccesarilly a bad thing in itself- it helps give the Jazz bass that characteristic hollow boom with both pickups fully open that can be used to good effect when playing with fingers and which is fantastic for slap. If you don't want to roll off one of the volumes to find a sweet spot then you could try selectively adding mids with an outboard eq or at the amp. It's not just Jazz basess that suffer from this trait. Traditional Fender-style basses with PJ pickups are particulaly prone to this problem too, and my experience of the recent two humbucker pickup EBMM basses such as the HH Stingray is that with both pickups on full that there is a very noticable drop in apparent volume due to the sudden abscence of mids. From dim and distant memory, I seem to remember that the Sabre had it's rear pickup slightly closer to the bridge in attempt to ameliorate this. Off the top of my head , I can't think of any passive Jazz basses with a pan pot. The American Deluxe Fenders have a pan pot, as do many boutique active Jazz -style basses , but they can be quite a different beast to the classic passive Jazz Bass.

If you've played it and you like it , and you have no reason to believe that it's not genuine or that there is anything structurally wrong with the bass , then £900 for a Japanese -made Sadowsky is an absolute bargain.

You know you are getting old when kids are bringing their dads Wal's to school.

Wow, this is potentially a big topic! Some 34 inch scale basses ( Sadowsky and Fodera for example ) can have a low B that sounds tighter and clearer than those on a lot of 35 inch scale basses. There can be a lot of reasons for this. As others have mentioned, the headstock break-angle can be significant, as can the placement of the B- string machinehead. The design and of the bridge and the material composition of the neck and body can also make a big difference to overall B string performance , as can the pickups . In the end, it's the synergy of a whole host of design factors. In my limited experience, very few extended -range basses have a low B that is truly the same in overall timbre as the other strings, and in keeping with other posters , the few five string Fenders I have played ( American Deluxe Jazz basses of various vintages) had B strings that , to me at least, were so so sloppy that they were useless.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348838263' post='1818929'] I think out of all the manufacturers, my favourite to go and visit would be EBMM. I'd love to see what they get upto and what stashes of prototypes they have. [/quote] Unfortunately, I think EBMM would be one of the hardest manufacturers to get access to. I know that they have had open-days in the past, but I haven't heard of any in recent times and I think that unless you are someone a bit famous that the factory is off limits. It might be worth sending them an email if you are ever planning to be in that neck of the woods though, you never know...

Getting back to the subject of mahogany Bongo lust, how does this beauty float your boat?

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1348530645' post='1814980'] WIthout a doubt - you mean this Reflex [url="http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/54488-now-something-different-pdn-reflex-hh-5-a.html"]http://forums.ernieb...lex-hh-5-a.html[/url] [/quote] It occurred to me whilst trying to get to sleep last night that if you buy this Reflex that you don't get a mahogany tone block as such, by virtue of the fact that the whole thing is mahogany. I wonder if they substitute it for an ash tone block? Probably not, I expect..

Sounds like latter-era King Crimson with an Open University degree in musical obtuseness. Highly commendable.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1348686521' post='1816989'] ooooff this is one of the things that put me of any stingray - my current basses range from 7.8 - 9 pounds - over 10 seems very heavy - my old T40 was about 13 pounds.... [/quote] I know there are some people who like a heavy bass ( some people say they sound better , but I don't believe them ) , but I cannot get past the fact that if my shoulder and back are aching so much that I can't enjoy playing and can't concentrate then the whole exercise is a waste of time for me . There should be a Geneva Convention for bass players which outlaws basses over a certain weight. There are plenty of EBMM basses of a reasonable weight if you look out for them, though. The variation in weight can be huge, easily two pounds or more in some cases , from one example to the next , so if you can try before you buy I wouldn't totally discount the idea of ever getting a Stingray.

I've just been looking at the special edition Bongo in The Perfect Bass and I don't care for it too much, to be honest. I stand by my initial assertion that the Bongo looks better as it is in a sleek and modern solid colour. The special burst Sterling and Reflex look mega, but the Ray and Bongo don't look quite right to me. At least the weight seem pretty typical despite the mahogany bodies.

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1348601487' post='1815895'] My SR4 Classic is 9lb 8oz - however it does have a slab body also, so a bit more wood to the body than the regular Ray - this seems to be the fairly common weight of current basses. However I also have a 2007 SR4HH which is under 9lbs. I have heard of Sterling 4s as low as 7lbs 9 oz. [/quote] That's definitely on the light side for a Classic. 9.5 pounds is my cut-off point for any bass nowadays. That's the upper limit of what I find comfortable.

Weight is a big issue for me nowadays, and so whatever bass I buy has to be a light example of that particular model- obviously, some models of bass are going to be inherently heavier than others. I have hardly seen any four string Stingrays made in recent years that were as light as your 5 ; they tend to be closer to 10 pounds more often than not in my experience , thats why I opted for a Reflex with humbuckers when I was looking for an EBMM to do the Stingray thing. . When I had my Reflex made for me I requested a light one , and mine is the second -lightest I have ever seen. Its still not as light as your five strings, though. 5 string EBMMs that light are like gold dust , and definitely keepers.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348596153' post='1815784'] Luckily my Sterling 5HS/Stingray 5 HS weigh about 9lbs max. each. [/quote] That is exceptionally light. It sounds like they might be swamp ash rather than the more common Northern ash if they are that light..

Now I'm confused . Does the C.S in C.S.I stand for Crime Scene or Custom Shop ?

That bass is something special, but I'd like to know what how much it weighs.

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1348506018' post='1814511'] Anyway, back to the OP. I know of one particular player that has a high end bass collection that exceeds £40k, not including the amps that he owns. Sadowsky, Ken Smith, Alembic, Warwick, Brubaker...you name it...it will be hiding in a cupboard in his house. As you expect, he is a high earner, but I would consider to be inbetween beginner and moderate as far as his playing skill and knowledge is concerned. He doesn't actively play in a band and treats it very much as a hobby. Now, this is the conflict of emotions that a few of us have when we come across players like him. Does the skill of the player match the quality of the instruments or are we just envious? [/quote] This is scenario I have also encountered , where people who can hardly play at all , or else have very patchy ability on the instrument have garnered a collection of equipment that far outstrips their ability to use it effectively. It's easy ( and sometimes tempting) to be scathing of such folks, but I think it would be wrong to be so. Ultimately , folks can spend their own money on what they like, and if you were to start allocating instruments to people on the basis of ability then who's to say that you or I would be allocated our basses of choice by the better players who judged us?. I completley understand where you are coming from with this, but basses are no different to any other consumer items- if you got the money then someone will be glad to sell you them. I have sold quite a few high-end basses overe the years, and more often than not I have been genuinely shocked by the poor level of playing of the people who came along and bought them . Most of them would have been far better served by buying a Squier and spending the balance of the money on lessons. Seriously. I can recall intense phone conversations with a prospective buyer agonizing over whether the bass I was selling had mukalungu wood stringers in the neck rather than the standard African mahogany used on later models, only to find that when he came to try the bass the chap in question could only atonally strum the open strings and attempt a few bizarre and probably non-existant chord shapes. I asked him what kind of music he played ,to which he mysteriously replied " religous music". This is by no means an isolated incident ; most of the other punters who have bought basses from me were quite frankly useless, with only one or two notable exceptions, and I only buy ( and eventually sell) very nice basses. But what crime have these people ultimatey committed by aspiring to a good quality instrument? So much of the culture around playing the bass emphasizes the need for professional quality equipment at at the exclusion of everything else that I can easily see how anyone would gravitate towards getting their hands on this kind of gear as soon as they could, even if it was before their playing skills merited it. The difficult truth for all of us is that buying basses is fairly easy, all you need is money. It's learning to play them that 's the difficult part.. Here on Basschat members ( myself included) put far more energy and enthusiasm into discussing equipment than they do discussing learning scales, modes and arpegios . A lot of the very best players don't use very fancy equipment- players like Jeff Berlin or even Marcus Miller spring to mind- because it's just not that important to them for one reason or another. Their focus is far more on their musicality than their equipment.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1348501115' post='1814404'] That finish definitely looks better in the flesh than in pictures I had seen previously. It's got a nice kind of rag-rolled effect to the burst. It's like the team off Changing Rooms ( whatever happened to Carol Smiley?) have decorated a Musicman bass. I'm sure mahogany will enhance the sound of a Bongo in some way ; not necceasarily better than a normal Bongo but probably a bit different. These certainly are nice basses. One thing with EBMM special editions though , is that there's always another one round the corner... [/quote] [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348502504' post='1814429'] I must admit, I agree the Sterlings look better than the Rays. I've noticed certain colours are REALLY nice on the Sterling due to the lack on banana control plate and slightly sleaker body. Take Tobacco Burst. Looks great on a Ray. Oh my...it looks AMAZING on a Sterling. I also think the Sterling 5 is beautiful design, hence why I got one as well as a Ray 5 HS. [/quote] I think the Sterling 5 is a beautiful design . too, but funnily enough I have never been that keen on the Sterling 4 string. I much prefer the shape of the scratchplate on the Sterling 5 to the Stingray 5. The Sterling 5 also sounds amazing, to say the least.

Whilst we're on the subject of EBMM and mahogany, I remembered these pictures from the EBMM forum about Randy Jacksons' factory visit. If you look closely at the back of the body of the unfinished Reflex/Game Changer you can see how the mahogany tone block runs through the course of the body: I cannot say how much diffence the mahogany tone block makes to this bass because I've never heard the bass without it, if you see what I mean, but what I do know is that all the EBMM basses that have featured a tone block sound pretty damned impressive , including this one. Apropos of nothing, I might as well throw this picture in for pure porn purposes: Probably the most beautiful EBMM bass I have ever seen.

That finish definitely looks better in the flesh than in pictures I had seen previously. It's got a nice kind of rag-rolled effect to the burst. It's like the team off Changing Rooms ( whatever happened to Carol Smiley?) have decorated a Musicman bass. I'm sure mahogany will enhance the sound of a Bongo in some way ; not necceasarily better than a normal Bongo but probably a bit different. These certainly are nice basses. One thing with EBMM special editions though , is that there's always another one round the corner...