drTStingray

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1364906109' post='2032387'] ......................By the way, I never said anything about making a loss. That would be daft. [/quote] Well I don't think messrs Fender are making a lot of money currently - in fact I read a financial article recently which suggested their biggest problem is people not wanting to buy new ones because of the perception that old ones are better, and did not bode well at all. But it's true that musical instruments are classed as non essential luxury items and companies have been having a hard time of it for several years now - no doubt there is pressure from increasing manufacturing costs (not labour though!!) and exchange rate against imports - and for those with shareholders and the market to impress, no doubt a desire to improve margins. This has happened in the past as a result of Government wanting to limit imports to improve import/export ratio and improve financial performance. We seem to be entering another period of weaker currency, so the prices will go up - best thing is to wait for Fender or other manufacturers to announce another new vintage re-issue line and then pick up one of the bargains sold off at half price of the old line at a major retailer who's clearing floor space for the new models (if like me, you like shiny new basses and bass cases (a bit like new cars - it's a lovely feeling when you get one - nothing like the smell, fell and look of it).

Don't think he played a Stingray 5 - he plays Alleva Coppolo 5s generally (but often gets a Stingray-like tone). I once saw him use a pre EB Stingray on a Stevie Wonder thing on the BBC about 20 yrs ago. You may be right about signature instruments - there again they might put others off.

[sub][size=4]Probably exchange rate stuff - last time I looked (regarding a used purchase) I was horrified. $1.49 = £1. When you consider it was 1.6 or 1.65 not long ago, it's not surprising prices are rising - manufacturers are also putting prices up.[/size][/sub]

[sub][size=4]Oh yes + 1,000,000[/size] [/sub] [sub][size=4]I learned as many of the tracks off Songs in the Key of Life that I could back in the late 70s (only learned Sir Duke recently though - couldn't figure out the unison riff back then).[/size][/sub] [sub][size=4]Nate has a 79 Stingray (it appears on Do I Do amongst a lot of other tracks, and he says he still uses it, presumably for recording) - this guy is one of my biggest bass playing inspirations, and one of the key reasons I got the Stingray drug!! Also the reason I bought a 5 string bass (but had to be a Stingray!). Seeing a Stevie Wonder performance with Nate on bass is a must for any R and B influenced bass player - there's no groove quite like it![/size][/sub] [sub][size=4]In an interview he said he got the Stingray on recommendation of Bernard Edwards - prior to that he used a Jazz on I Wish (but through an Alembic pre amp - hence those dirty slides) and a Precision on Sir Duke (also through an Alembic pre amp).[/size][/sub] [sub][size=4]Great call, Pete.[/size][/sub]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1364298600' post='2024454'] This is what they said about lotus Cortinas a few years ago when they hit £15000, now they are £40k at least! [/quote] We're miles off topic, but as a man with a strong interest in Mini Cooper Ss (the old type) - this is because there is a generation of people (generally middle aged or elderly now) who dearly want to take them historic rallying - they are rare, and desirable particularly for that purpose - and follow 'the Dingus rule' mentioned earlier. Generations come and go - I would not be surprised to see the price of run of the mill vintage Fenders (as opposed to minters) fall.....or rise dependent on the number around, and their desirability for use as a working instrument - those fortunes may be linked to the type/amount of music for which they're suitable, currently on a high (BUT remember the 80s anyone? Keyboards rule OK!). Who knows with pre EB v EB instruments - I think they're all great but I'm biased - most bass players hold them in some reverence.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1364245362' post='2023849'] That 30TH Anniversary 'Ray was a very remarkable sounding ( and good looking ) bass , I must admit . I wanted one at the time , but I was put off by the weight . Mahogany seems to really help give some extra focus to the typical Stingray tone on EBMM basses , and I would include the models with mahogany tone blocks in that as well as the solid mahogany ones . [/quote] I like the look of the 30th Anniversary more now than when they were available. I also once tried a Reflex - I was extremely impressed. Now that would be a nice used instrument to buy.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1364244745' post='2023828'] Seen a few 30th rays sell cheap on here alone dr t! I think whatever the newer ones cost the older ones will be double of a standard one and a few hundred more than any LE version, look how cheap some classics are becoming compared to the rrp. [/quote] Yes I can see your point - I think where I'm coming from is that the idea that something old is good and desirable changes with generations - you only have to track/watch antique auctions to see this - beautiful artefacts which were worth a fortune twenty years ago are now only worth scrap value in some cases - painful but true in some cases. I'd love to have a crystal ball but methinks the baby boomer generation is most heavily responsible for the 50s/60s music scene and for its perpetuity - the next generation (mine) may not be so kind to its heritage and artefacts.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1364239868' post='2023726'] I don't think any ebmm will rival any pre eb for holding its value, they are also awesome! [/quote] I know they are good and have a following, but no one has a crystal ball to see what things will be like in 30 yrs time. Bear in mind quite a few buyers/owners of 50s/60s Fenders are guys who are in their 60s/70s - they may flood the market when the inevitable happens - with a reduction in price accordingly (unless, as Dingus says, they're something unusual and special). You only have to look at the situation with classic cars to see the parallel. The current situation is Musicman basses are treated with quite a reverence by bass players - they have a good following and apart from some detractors who clearly don't like them, will probably continue to be - which augers well for the saleability of used ones I guess. The market will go up and down though. [quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1364237999' post='2023692'] If you want a corker of a Stingray then get yourself a 30th Anniversary with the mahogany body. If you want the rarest and arguably best fretless there is IMO then get one of the 20ish made unlined fretless versions. Still my dream bass. I had a 30th but always really wanted a fretless one. Beautiful and sounds amazing as well [/quote] I remember nearly buying one of these used from Bass Central - I didn't (and also passed on a NOS fretless 2005 LE Ray they had) because I wanted a standard Ray - eventually a mint 93 came up on Ebay, which I still have. I don't regret this but would like to snag a fretted 30th at some point. Expensive though! The LEs, Anniversary models and BFRs do command higher prices - rare ones even more so. Bass Central had a stealth HH Ray unlined fretless quite recently - most probably a one off - now that was the height of cool for my eyes - ebony board as well!

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1364173843' post='2022874'] IIRC there are three types of BFR bass - a BFR Sterling 4 string, in various 'BFR' colours with figured top, no pickguard, special fret markers; 10 off SR5 in bahama blueburst which preceeded the 20th Anniversary model (5 in US; 5 to international dealers) and finally a series of regular model EBMM basses with all rosewood necks - the neck has the BFR logo on it, but otherwise it's a regular bass.[/quote] Sorry I missed out the BFR Redwood Stingray - no pickguard - flame or quilted top - 100 made (IIRC). I agree with you Dingus, the whole musical instrument market is depressed currently - ask any retailer. But decent used equipment that is sought after, and possibly in very good condition, will fetch good prices - recent sale of a mint late 80s trans red Stingray at £900 (compared with the 'well used' late 80s blueburst at £560 - as reported in another thread).

[quote name='Redburst' timestamp='1364154801' post='2022659'] Most of the BFR's I've seen are quilted finished and such. without pickguards; though some go the extra mile and have all-rosewood necks.[/quote] IIRC there are three types of BFR bass - a BFR Sterling 4 string, in various 'BFR' colours with figured top, no pickguard, special fret markers; 10 off SR5 in bahama blueburst which preceeded the 20th Anniversary model (5 in US; 5 to international dealers) and finally a series of regular model EBMM basses with all rosewood necks - the neck has the BFR logo on it, but otherwise it's a regular bass. [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1364157034' post='2022702'] New normal Rays are about £1400+ now. I guess when I bought my Stingray natural 3 EQ over ten years ago for £1000, I now have that figure stuck in my head. After that amount of time, of course they go up. [/quote] Yeah I'm with you on this, Gareth - my SR5 natural was £995 new, ten years ago. The pound is very low against the dollar at the moment (1.49 last time I looked - when I was thinking of buying a nice late 80s Stingray from a shop in USA). If this continues, it will put prices of US made musical equipment up even more.

Excellent - congrats.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363903305' post='2019385'] Though it is a great excuse to buy a pre-EB MM now! [/quote] Doubt it - don't they have those Fender 3 bolt tilt mechanism neck joints?

What are you all talking about? My EBMMs are perfect instruments for my requirements. It is stated EBMM didn't ask for the thread to be removed - Basschat did, on the basis of people overstepping the mark re defamation - why would anyone have a problem with that? It only contained a couple of standard hot air opinion posts IIRC, and a few saying how good EBMM are. Yawn. It disappeared just as I was posting.......

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1363681744' post='2015572'] I think they don't have the same allure as Fenders do for most people and are not as revered. Obviously us lot know they're the real deal and worth the money, but it's supply and demand. More people buying them new and shifting them on than people wanting them 2nd hand means prices drop. [/quote] From what I see around the semi pro circuit, Musicman basses are pretty popular, as are Warwicks and other basses of that type - also with bass teachers. Fenders are very much in fashion with some of the younger folks these days (probably reflecting the number used in modern music) as well as middle aged guys starting off on bass, with some money to spend. But the bottom line is the economy is poor at the moment and you can get new bargains (did anyone see the Fender CS and AVRIs going in Guitar Centre at ludicrously low prices recently - not just them but across a lot of makes). I think the prices reflect people's ability and willingness to spend money......not a good time to sell your bass, whatever it is. A buyer's market...................and I'd be all over a [b]mintish[/b] blueburst Stingray in an instant, as would several others.

I'm sorely tempted - the neck's incredibly figured.

I was watching that as well. It was pretty 'well used' with lots of dings though - and listed as Teal by the seller last time I checked it, incorrectly, which won't have helped - I actually forgot to go on and bid just before it finished - I couldn't find it when I went on Ebay on Thursday so thought it might have been withdrawn. I'm currently negotiating on a nice 1989 one in the USA - exchange rate is awful and if, as is likely, it gets taxed on import, it's a pretty expensive deal. The prices are all over the place at the moment, on lots of equipment. The exchange rate issue will put the price of all new stuff from the USA even further up - that may well boost used prices, unless people are desperate to sell stuff.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1363540879' post='2013833'] In the early 2000s the ones Fender U.K had left over that hadn't sold were offered to dealers at a knock -down price to get rid of them . Anyone who pays £4075 of your English pounds ( yes , that's £4075 ! ) or anything close to that for one of these either doesn't know much or needs their head examining [/quote] Agreed!!! Insanity. Mind you there's another thread where Fender values one of their own creations at $28000!!

The Bass Gallery had one recently for £1750 IIRC. It was #36 of 42 or something similar IIRC. Considering the cost of a new Pino signature (v nice Custom Shop with a quarter sawn neck) but still a P bass - and the sound difference possibly as much to do with standard fitment of Thomastik Icore flats as anything, £1750 seems OK to me. But then I am an aging Level 42 fan!!!! (And Pino fan).

There were 42 made I think, and those should have appropriate paperwork/certificate. They look quite nice with the blue LEDs. They are referred to in 'The Mark King Bass Book' - transcription book by Stuart Clayton under the section dealing with Mark's bass equipment. It just says the Jazz didn't meet his requirements. They're pretty exclusive at 42 made. Many of the Fender 'signature' basses are surely very little different from the stock versions so I don't see why this one wouldn't be 'undesirable' - it has one or two other mods I believe, though I do get the 'Hendrix's Les Paul signature' syndrome. The Fender Jazz is hardly renowned as a bass used by Mark King.

[quote name='samuel' timestamp='1363508227' post='2013387'] Could any bongo hh owners tell me how high their pickups are against the bottom strings please? [/quote] The same settings as all HH Musicman basses (I asked the question myself of EBMM customer services having received my 5HH used with the neck pick up set flush with the scratch plate (which was incorrect)). [url="http://www.music-man.com/faq/music-man-basses"]http://www.music-man...usic-man-basses[/url]

[quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1363490374' post='2013345'] .....................the classic radio knobs used on the pre eb stingrays, like the one shown here from gareths 77 stingray bass (for sale) [/quote] For anyone who's not already aware, radio knobs are only recorded as appearing on some of the basses with main components dated 1976. Tommorichards - from what you've said the total cost of your 3 knobs is less than £30 (unless I've misunderstood) - doesn't sound that bad to me?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363455765' post='2012986'] I would have said Gibson Flying V guitar via the Kramer XKB-10. [/quote] Possibly - but you could definitely have someone's eye out with that headstock or bottom horn. Can you imagine trying to play it on your knee

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363438716' post='2012694'] Having had another better look, I don't really see what all the fuss is about. Essentially it's just a P-Bass with a different body shape. [/quote] If you say so!! But what a body shape - interesting to hear where the inspiration for that came from - looks as random as a spalsh of paint on paper to me!!

That looks like a ............ aherm ............slight mistake!! An extension of Leo's design principle that the instruments could be made by unskilled labour - in the case of the body of this one, very by the looks of it. Nice colour though

[quote name='ZenBasses' timestamp='1363292352' post='2011246'] The bit that gets me is "valued by Fender at $28000"....eeeeekkk[/quote] Hmmmm - a Warwick lookalike with a Fender badge = $28,000 bonkers!!