drTStingray

The Classic Sterling is only available in 4 string and a single humbucker - it has a 2 band EQ AFAIK. But the Classic Stingray is available as a 5 string (2 band EQ). A used SR5 single H, post about 1991 and pre 2008 will give you humbucker in series or parallel, with a single coil option also, all selected via a toggle switch - plus you get the 3 band EQ as well - a very versatile bass, particularly responsive to changes in hand plucking position and intensity. The humbucker in parallel gives a Stingray type tone, whilst in series it has more pronounced mids and cuts through a mix even better. The Sterling 5 basically has the same pick up arrangment (ceramic), whereas the Stingray 5 went to Alnico in about 2008. The SR5 is likely to weigh the upper end of 9lbs - it is quite a large instrument, whereas the Sterling is smaller.

Cloudburst, this really is an iconic bass of the 80s......to be seen all over Top of the Pops at the time. And they also sound great as well. I suspect you may get a bit of stick at the Institute over your choice, however?!

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1356957012' post='1915519'] if you turn up with an old Jazz everyone relaxes and guesses you know what your doing,, plus,,most popular music at min, really isn't in 5 string territory[/quote] Hmmm therein lies a problem - I've seen more poor (well let's say challenged or limited) players playing Fenders than anything else. You could say that should be the case statistically because Fenders are probably the most popular of the name makes currently. However I know that many hobbyist players (particularly in my age range, where money is available to spend) are probably at beginner level and buy them because of the name/brand kudos etc etc. I'm afraid that the idea that anyone turning up at an audition with a Fender relaxes everyone because they obviously know what they're doing is as daft as saying anyone with the wrong coloured hair (or the wrong type of trainers etc etc) will piss people off. If it was me I'd probably think........yawn OMG not another! Back in the 70s this may have been true but Fenders are ten a penny in comparison these days (in quantities in the hands of hobbyists/players) and believe me, there are some extremely limted players out there (some of whom are likely to diss any non Fender they see as well - part of justifying their decision to buy what they did, possibly)!!

The content of this post encouraged me to take my Bongo 5 to a 60s jam I sometimes attend on a Sunday afternoon/evening - well I played on a total of about 15 songs, including 4 Shadows, a couple of Elvis, a Neil Diamond, Creedence etc. When the real 60s guys came on I was thankfully not called upon to play on Poetry in Motion or Teenager in Love (the latter of which had musos with a combined age of nearly 400 years - for a six piece that's going some) - but then again I wouldn't even if I had a bass fitting the genre cos some of these old guys often only trust equally aging people to play with them on this stuff - even though I know the parts as well as anyone else. I will say it was a very fun time - some of the music was good, some appalling........and only a couple of playful negative comments were made about my bass - one guy (who I know well) asked if some bits had fallen off it pointing to the bottom horn - my response was to chuckle and ask him if his Strat (custom shop/matching headstock/vintage colour) was a copy as the headstock label looked a touch wonky............all playful banter really. The good thing however was several musos commented on how my bass had a great sound. Before anyone gets the wrong idea with this, I do know all these guys and have done for years so maybe they are a little more tolerant with me and my whims - I would normally have used my coral red Stingray for the jam - well at least it matches some of the guitars in look!! Now back to Gary Moore...........I think he once played in a band led by a famous bass player..........do you suppose Gary got told what guitar to play in that - maybe he was getting his own back on bass players with his own band re 62 Precisions? However I recall that someone auditioned (and got the job in Thin Lizzy) using a Les Paul copy..........they had had to sell their real one because they were broke, I believe the story had it. My own personal view is that artists who require people to melt into the background in every possible way would do better playing to backing tracks and if they do need the 'illusion' of a live band, could hire models who blend in with whatever instrument (some of the choices made to 'fit an image' are absolutely hilarious) suits the manager/main artists whim to mime to the backing track - that way there would be no problem with anyone's ego, sound or anything else interfering. Come to think of it, isn't that what some pop acts do on MTV etc?? I don't play for a living but if I did, I would hope people booked me for my playing style, flexibility and my sound in which case giving me, for instance, a RIckenbacker to play, would possibly not work. I would certainly find it hard playing a bass I hated, through an amp I hated, on music I didn't have any affinity with, with a sound I hated, in an expressionless manner to fit the requirements of an artist night after night. I once read in an interview with Tony Levin that he had been asked not to play fills in a certain part of a P Floyd number - however this is different from the sort of control freakery described elsewhere in this thread - the guy has his own sound and is hired/paid for that. What is described elsewhere is musicianship devoid of creativity, artistry or expression - is far better reproduced by machine rather than human being?

Some interesting stuff in this thread. Just to add another dimension, I don't recall such prejudices with bass back in the 70s/80s - the only potential problem into the 80s was keyboard players saying, I'll play the bass parts! I think it is a fairly modern phenomena. I just read the thread about Gary Moore and the 62 Precision - can't imagine why him or his people bothered as I can't recall the bass on his records - come to think of it I can't anything but the guitar. Maybe it was a 'generic' sound - - in the same way as the bass on the Birdie Song, Shaddapayaface or a host of other records - maybe that was the point, the bass mustn't get in the way of the main guitar so best to go with what was used on the recordings (I would doubt it would matter to most listeners whether it was a 62, 72, 82, 92, or 02 P bass to be honest though). There is certainly a lot more brand snobbery these days - but that is true of lots of elements of modern life eg clothes and fashion. Can you imagine how Free or Cream would have turned out if their bass players had been 'required' by producers, lead guitarists or whoever to have played the then industry standard?

[quote name='MrTaff' timestamp='1356782329' post='1913485'] Image matters, would you turn up at a blues or jazz gig with a flying V or BC Rich Widow? they've got the same notes [/quote] You're taking it too seriously - most punters wouldn't give a **** - if you asked many of them to name three bass players they would probably get to Paul McCartney, maybe Bill Wyman and that would be it. It's generally the musicians (and in my experience, mostly guitarists) who get all anal about this. I use my Stingray 5 for one of the blues bands I play in (along with a good book - you're quite right Cloudburst) - the band love the sound. If you listen to modern blues/funk/rock you'll find the punchy active bass sound alive and kicking - it's one genre which the 'mamby pamby play a Precision and we can mix it down with the kick drum without it quite disappearing' producers haven't got their hands on thank god.

Sorry youy've had this experience. The sad thing is that if you follow the x bass fits in y genre only train of thinking, you end up with any Fender with a custom pastel colour belongs only in a pre Beatles 'surf' band or as an ornament on the wall. None of these 'x only fits in y' people would recognise this though - what bass was shown in the portrayed as deeply unhip stripper backing band in The Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour - Fiesta red Precision of course!! Encountering this sort of thing isn't confined to Newcastle, regrettably - I guess how much you tolerate it is down to how much you want to play in the band (for instance because you need to earn money). One thing's for sure, people who tell you what bass to play and also what notes to play are unlikely to allow you to be a 'band member' - I for one find this sort of thing even more laughable (and sometimes more difficult to take) when the people involved haven't learned to play their instrument properly even. Has anyone else been in a situation where someone says something like 'oo your guitar strap was hanging down in that DVD and looking untidy' when in the self same DVD, same bloke is playing completely the wrong pattern! It boils down to froth v substance - unfortunately there's a certain amount of froth around amongst the music scene. Yes, if you're in a heavily produced pop band this may apply - or even if you're in a tribute band you may be asked to play a certain instrument - the latter always creases me up when the band members look nothing like the original guys anyway!! You should try and find some sensible musicians to play with - my experience has been open mike/jam sessions are a good place to go (although they also have their doses of prima donnas and the like). I was asked to join a rockabilly band and took my Stingray 5 to the first three or four gigs - and it sounded the business!! I was accused of getting a double bass esque sound generally, and a Fender sound on the songs needing electric bass. The SR5 is a great swiss army knife bass so anyone who wants you for your playing and sound will have no problem with it.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1356703756' post='1912625'] What drT meant was, get a Stingray! [/quote] How did you guess. Several people I knew at the time had Ibanez Musicians - an awesome bass for playing early 80s dance music (eg The Whispers; Shalamar etc etc) and could get you into Alembic sound territory. Stingrays are on pop stuff like Culture Club; Thompson Twins; Go West etc. Sabres on Spandau Ballet - all from the early 80s. Blame Bernard Edwards - he made lots of people (including me) want to play a Stingray.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1356702657' post='1912608'] I'm guessing its a ray, were rhey made by different people at different times? And can you tell the difference in quality? [/quote] The best quality/consistency by a country mile is the EBMM version. Pre EB's can weigh up to 15 lbs and are variable (some are great) - I had one new at the time - loved it but for instance, within a few weeks, one of the mute pads fell off to be lost forever on a dark stage one night - remember we are talking the era of late 70s early 80s manufacturing (think cars, where sun visors regularly fell off in your lap, amongst other faults unheard of these days). 60s cars were little better. The Japanese introduced better quality amongst other things, and manufacturing grew up to compete or died, from the late 70s onwards. The thing with early 80s Musicman basses is that they introduced new colours (as well as the Cutlass models with graphite necks), rosewood fretboards, and some colours moved to alder rather than ash bodies so give an arguably smoother sound. The 2 band Stingray EQ has been more or less the same since 1979 to date. And yes, made by Charvel. So there was, basically, a broader choice, and a number of Musicman fans revere these early 80s instruments - a possible downside (dependent on your view) is the lack of through body stringing on the bridges (through body may increase sustaina little).

[size=5][sub]At this time, bass playing had been thoroughly influenced by the likes of Pino, Jaco, Louis Johnson, Nate Watts, Norman Watt-Roy, Mark King - so things had become technical - look at Nick Beggs - Kajagoogoo (top 10 single etc).[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]So basses of the era - Musicman Stingray, Sabre or Cutlass.[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]Ibanez Musician; [/sub][/size][size=5][sub]Steinberger; [/sub][/size][size=5][sub]Wal[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]All choice basses of the time. Alembic if you could afford one (few people could); Jaydee if you couldn't.[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]Fenders were off the radar for many serious players at this time as seriously out of date and unhip, but found in the hands of punk rockers etc.[/sub][/size]

THere's some good advice in this thread - however here's my take on it. I owned a pre EB Ray from about 1980 onwards, and currently only have Ernie Ball basses. The 3 EQ can sound almost identical to a 2 band EQ bass - the key difference is that the mid range knob, at centre detent, give the bass more mid range than a 2 EQ has with the bass and treble boosted about 80% (which seems to be the way many people play them). They can sound exactly like Bernard Edwards (but of course you need to be able to play in his style, which is very specific). The mid range control can help you out in some mixes, particularly if you don't want to play too hard - so basically the 3 EQ has a little more versatility. The 2 band has more bass and treble boost (IMO), however when dimed, you do lose mid range in the sound - the mid range comes back as you back off the tone controls. The Ray 133 is 2 band NOS in specific colours (red, white or blue??), without hard shell case. You may well find 3EQ basses around as NOS which are discounted - in fact I know of a shop with a 3EQ HS pick up model in natural with a maple board which I was offered a discount from the already discounted price - PM me if you want to know where it is. You should find the Stingray in either 2 or 3 EQ form a natural slap machine (amongst other attributes) - mine still bring a smile to my face a full 32 years after the first time I played a slap pattern in a gig with one - it is an awesome sound. Best of luck with getting one. You may wish to consider buying used - plenty of mint or near 3 EQ basses come on the market (Ebay for example) and 2 EQ ones.

[quote name='tedgilley' timestamp='1355528224' post='1899753'] Amazingly melodic player, up against a wall of horns. Never better. [/quote] Did you mean Nick Beggs of Kajagoogoo??

A large percentage of how a bass sounds is down to the user - Stingrays are capable of extremely smooth and subtle delivery, as evidenced by the multitude of professional users over the years. The fact the bass can produce an iconic and very aggressive sound produced by the likes of Flea and Tim Commerford tends to overshadow its ability to produce a very smooth bass sound. As for the neck query, I have 5 of these basses - and don't have the problem - they are all gigged and they barely go out of tune from oneto the next. Yes if you have v low action you may need to tweak the truss rod at the start of summer and winter but that is because the materials used cannot defy the laws of physics - however thanks to EBMM, the truss rod adjuster is about the easiest and most effective on the market. The size of frets may also have a bearing on the ability to get very very low action - no matter what reinforcement is used, I don't see how manufacturers can produce necks made from wood which defy the laws of physics - basically if your bass is exposed to temperature range of 40 - 50 degrees C, and humidity ranging from 10 to 90% (all of which occurs over a year in this country), wood will react at the extremes - and your action may need adjusting (especially if it's already perilously low). I'm not fussed about my Stingray 5 natural finish being available as an SBMM Ray 35 - indeed someone once asked me whether mine was a Ray 35 - I said no and pointed to the headstock - the guy thought my bass looked and sounded great anyway! It's no different from people with Fender instruments - last night I was at a jam session and a guy turned up with a Telecaster thinline in natural, with a worn maple neck and TV logos. I was talking to the guy next to me who's something of a Fender buff and he said to me that's not original because the tuners are Kluson and thus predate the model. He went and asked the guy who confirmed it was a Japanese re-issue about 10 yrs old - but who cares, really??? It looked very pretty indeed. The guy who has an original will no doubt think he's got the best guitar in the world (for him) as does the guy with the Jap re-issue - there are other compromises, eg pick ups, in the re-issue, which sets the real thing apart also.

[quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1355672887' post='1901169'] The secret of a good 5 string lies in having the slightly longer 35" scale the low B string needs [/quote] I would respectfully disagree that you need a 35" scale for a good B string - both My Bongo 5 and Stingray 5s have killer B string sounds and are 34". There are others as well. My take on this subject is you should get a 4 string to learn on. For your budget you may get a used Mexican Fender Precision and a used Ashdown 300 watt MAG combo. This will allow you to gig if you want to later - plus the resale if you find it's not for you will be OK. Should you want more tone options (not usually something a beginner thinks a lot about) you could go for a used Mexican Jazz bass or a Sterling by Musicman Sub bass (you will probaly be able to learn Flea and early Tim Commerford RATM lines and get a passable rendition of their sound and certainly a good slap sound with the SBMM). You could opt for a Squire or a SBMM Sub new if you didn't want to buy used but remember you will lose money on resale on anything you buy new - many people, however, prefer a shiny new bass if they can afford one. On the amp front you could just go for a small combo to use at home and learn on, but as soon as you want to join a band you'll need something more powerful (probably 300 watts in my view). You could go to a shop and get the salesman to demo the ones your interested, or if you know someone who can play reasonably well, take them and ask them to do it - try them yourself for feel etc, and pick what you like the best. Best of luck.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355269562' post='1896313'] rickenbacker havn't yet. [/quote] Indeed not - they've taken a different route - trying to make it difficult for people to trade copies. What EBMM did was to say if we don't fill the space (for a cheaper version) someone else will - hence the Sub SBMM (which competes with the Vintage Stingray copy etc). My take on this is that people who start off with the cheap version may well lust after the real thing in due course. I was inwardly chuckling earlier at a very lengthy Talkbass thread which was trying to argue a Squire xyz bass is better than the Fender version of the same bass - I thought - yes you may believe that but I'm betting a good number of people who buy the Squire will at some stage end up with a Fender. My original take on this thread was it's just a facet of the current market - the price of basses can go up or down, as they say! A good example of fluctuation of new prices - I got my SR5 in 2003 with a hard case for £995 (yes really - brand new - in stock for two months from DOB) - six months later they were around £1250+ and didn't come with a hard case, only a gig bag - the reason - huge fluctuation in exchange rate. Later the rate changed and the prices altered yet again. Slightly off topic - but have any of you guys with Stingrays recorded with one with the mutes wound on? I did a couple of weeks ago (2 band Classic) and am totally amazed at the sound - real thump (a la P bass) but with warmth and a smoothness I've never heard before. So much so I've started using them live as well and they have a great effect there as well.

It's a sign of the economy - you only have to look at the silly prices people are bidding on Fenders - eg 17 bids on a Road Worn Jazz, and it's got to £175. 3 bids on an American standard Jazz - and it's reached £56. Loads of new Custom Shop stuff at half price. The market simply goes up and down.

The other thing to remember is that the market is not made up generally of people who are enthusiastic enough to post on a forum like this. Manufacturers forums tend to attract enthusiasts. However there is a large bulk of players who just own one bass - probably starting with an entry level copy and possibly aspiring to something better. Many never get past the next one above budget level (eg mexican Fender or SBMM). This large chunk of people iswhat sells - there is only a certain proportion of players who are serious enough to want to invest in a bass over, say £1000 - and then only a proportion of those who catch the GAS bug and end up with 20 Musicman basses or Fenders etc (there's a guy on the Musicman forum with over 250). Although all of the market is no doubt being squeezed, I think it likely that the upper end is taking the biggest hit in the current economic climate. Prices do fluctuate, but if £750 is about the long term average rate for a used Ray, seeing basses sold at £600, whilst others go for £900, just demonstrates statistical fluctuation around an average. Christmas does have an affect - on prices for a whole range of goods. So how are Fender prices holding up?? I mentioned the giveaway Custom Shop prices, I believe already. I have seen standard mexican Fenders for £200 ish on Ebay, whereas they are £500 odd new. I suspect that across the whole range of makes, prices are currently at a low level.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1354714207' post='1889449'] I've seen loads of EBMM Musiman basses with massive discounts in Guitar Centre in recent years , particulaly the Special Editions / Annivesary models[/quote] Yes, me too - the point I was making relates to the used market where at least some of them (if not most of them) command a higher price. On those being sold off cheap, I think it depends on the model - the recent PDN run (mahogany/birds eye roasted maple necks etc) seems to have been over-subscribed, as were some of the other ones. But this is true of many manufacturers. You are right regarding Guitar Centre and sheer volume - many manufacturers have so much tied in with them there would likely be a problem if ever they went bust.

Refinishing it and modifying it in a big way (eg putting an extra J pick up on a P) seem to have the most detrimental affect on value of name brand instruments. Just look at the prices on any vintage guitar site and you can see by how much. The modification thing appears to be confined largely to Fender instruments, and lower priced copies of mainstream basses. Not sure why that would be other than availability of after-market parts, or a belief that they can be improved. You don't hear of many people modifying Alembics, Musicman, Sadowsky, Warwick, Gibson etc etc, and if they do they usually keep the bits to enable reversion to original spec. Perhaps the people buying them think there's less to be gained by 'upgrading' them.

Do you think they might, further down the line, produce some Sabres in more standard colours like natural? You would think that might be a logical follow up, and would reflect what happened with the Classic Rays. My experience of the LE models is they do actually fetch more than the comparable regular model, used. I've been lusting after a 30th Anni Stingray but they are significantly more than a regular used Ray. The 20th Anniversary even more than that.

A factor of the economy I guess - I read about NOS Fender Custom Shop basses being sold at Guitar Centre for less than half price, along with other bargains. This affects all musical instruments. On the run up to Christmas, there are possibly more people wanting to sell secondhand stuff quickly to free up funds. The prices will fluctuate I guess as a result. My son was after a tweed case for his Mexican Telecaster - found a Mexican Strat complete with a tweed case on Ebay for £250 - buying it, keeping the case and selling the Strat on in a gig bag would have been a superb deal - but just goes to show what's out there. 'Back in the day' I tried to sell an Acoustic 371 set up, and eventually had to accept a ridiculously low price for it - OK it was a long time ago and pre Ebay but still galling - how I wish I still had it. The one thing I had people falling over to buy was my pre-EB Stingray at the time, and I guess the same would be true now.

You may not be aware they also make some lines WITH a lacquered neck. So if they wanted to, they could put all the necks through that process. A lot of people like the oil and wax finished necks for playability - yeah some people don't but they can choose another type..

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1354540532' post='1887087'] How can using an oil finish instead of a sprayed lacquer finish NOT save money? A minimum wage muppet with an oily rag compared to somebody with the necessary spraying skills is going to be cheaper, and is also going to increase the number of basses produced as they don't have to wait for multiple lacquer coats to dry & be buffed. With the amount of guitars & basses they produce that is going to save an enormous amount of money over time on both materials & labour costs, and whatever marketing crap they spout to justify using oil finishes instead of lacquer their prime reason for doing that would be to maximise profits. [/quote] Well except that the necks are all hand finished by skilled labour anyway. And you or I don't have access to the info. I personally think it would be very marginal if anything at all. So I'm afraid your assertion is likely to be completely wrong. I'm willing to accept you don't like these basses - not sure why you presume that the manufacturer is out to sting everyone who does. In fact, past history suggests that of all the manufacturers, they're the least likely to do so, simply because they're run by businessmen/industrialists who are also enthusiasts.

If you buy secondhand, they started in 1987 and up to about 1992 had alnico pick up poles. From about 92 to 07 ceramic, and as said above, up to date with alnico. The late 80s/early 90s basses often have birds eye maple necks and look very cool indeed. If you buy a bass from the 80s/90s, solid colours and trans blueburst may well have a poplar body, other trans colours (except red) an ash body, trans red an alder body. All sound quite similar but there are differences. There is another model which you may find new in the shops, the Stingray Classic 5 string. The neck is similar to a regular MM 5 string except they have highly figured wood with a lacquered finish. These have 2 band EQs (as did the original USA made Sub), but in all other respects are a premium range bass (all other MM 5 strings have 3 band with a mid range control). A single pick up MM 5 string with 3 band EQ will have a selector switch enabling choice between series and parallel, plus a single coil setting. Multipick up basses have a selector switch to select combinations of coils in operation. You can see the specs and colours for the current basses on the Musicman web site, and the difference in appearence. You could also look out Ed Friedland's demos on You Tube - some of these basses or the four string equivalents are featured. Best of luck with finding one. These are very solid basses and not much generally goes wrong with them.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1354495691' post='1886756'] I've played more than enough EBMM basses to know I don't like them thanks, and I know that I'm not going to get on with any bass that has an oil finished neck - I can't stand them. [/quote] The fact you don't like them is a perfectly valid point of view, but fundamentally different from saying they're made without neck finish to save money, as you did originally. I think the only way anyone is going to be able to choose between maple and rosewood is to try them - in my experience they sound a little different (yes, I know the bridge may be set slightly different and the body wood may be marginally different etc etc etc etc) but every rosewood boarded bass I've ever played has, to my ears, for instance, a less searing slap sound. As I say - try them - and also decide which one looks better to you. A lot depends, IMO on the body colour as to which fretboard looks best - but it's all down to personal preference really - there's no right or wrong.