drTStingray

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1354454367' post='1886070'] EBMM stands for Ernie Ball Music Man . In reality it stands for this guy because , trust me , when it comes to EBMM , what he says goes . [/quote] You'd expect a CEO to have some control over his company, but it is said that the Classic series of basses were not the brainchild of Sterling Ball, but his son Scott Ball (in fact it was Sterling Ball who said it). He's much misunderstood - who else runs threads on each new bass model they develop from ground up, taking feedback on the way? Quite a lot of what came out with the Classics seemed to result from forum interraction (eg figured necks; chrome battery cover and more) - along with the Reflex and other instruments. Who's the CEO of Fender? Hmmm a bunch of venture capitalists own it and I've never heard of anyone involved with it (other than the names of one or two people in its Custom Shop). Sterling Ball is a bass player and enthusiast (but has also banned one or two people who were (arguably) behaving like .......... aherm............twats on his company's forum - they appear in other places these days!) - I know who I'd trust more to produce musical instruments, however. [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1354456074' post='1886093'] Fixed. [/quote] Rhys you really should go and try some more basses out - I have four variants of neck material on my Musicman basses - rosewood with gunstock oil finished neck; pau ferro with lacquered neck; maple with gunstock oil finished neck; maple with fully laquered neck and board. They do sound different, but especially the slap tone. The gun stock oil finish produces the fastest and easiest playing neck IMO - you get used to the lacquered necks but the gunstock ones just feel silky smooth to play. The lack of varnish produces a player's bass. The necks are all hand finished anyway (as are Fender Custom Shop). Back to the OP - I'm not sure what difference you'll get between a P with a maple or a P with a rosewood board, other than the obvious aesthetic differences - I would just say that of all the people playing 70s R and B on these basses I have seen, most have used maple boards - I preume they may have a little more focus and treble. However, a passive P bass being what it is, I'm not sure how much audible difference this will really make - possibly marginal.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354404066' post='1885713'] Black blocks on a maple board look cheap and common to me now. Has to be rosewood with white pearl blocks. Much classier. [/quote] A couple of weeks ago I'd have agreed with you - never liked black blocks and binding and preferred the white with silver blocks on a maple Jazz as well (as Marcus Miller Jazz) - that was until someone showed a picture on here of a 70s Jazz bass in black with maple board, black blocks and binding - a bass of total beauty. I now get it totally (and I didn't used to like black basses either). BTW I think the maple v rosewood board makes a significant difference on a Musicman - especially a maple with lacquered neck.

[quote name='andydye' timestamp='1353714980' post='1877878'] Date stamp should be on the inside of the neck pocket, that's where it is on mine... [/quote] Even on a 59 year old?? BTW I say he's at least 62!

I have a Stingray Classic which has a similar fretboard radius to what you describe. I find it excellent - I only notice the difference when going back to playing a standard SR4 (although it only takes a minute or two to become accustomed again). I have always found more of an issue, however, with the width of the fretboard of a 'vintage' (say 60s) P bass - they are slightly wider than the modern ones and my short fingers don't like them.

I bought a Markbass rig off you in the last year. However when I visited the lack of Warwicks (nil) and also Musicman (I think there was a Ray, a Ray 5 and a couple of SBMM) basses on display was alarming - far too many Fenders I'm afraid - nice as they are it's a bit of a turn off for a casual visit - just my opinion!!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353115290' post='1871891'] Only cheaper than a new classic and only when they come available anywhere other than Andybaxters, £1900 minimum for most of his now, if they are the prices he is getting for them then the pre EB is on the move upwards, resales of classics don't look that strong either even as new condition classic 5's are dropping below £1300 which is a massive saving on list price! I still want one though [/quote] They've often been around the price of a new Stingray in the past but there seems to be a lot of discounting going on in America to try and shift new/NOS basses - did you see the thread on TB about the Custom Shop Fender sold by GC for $1500? Plus GC made a cock up on the prices of their MM basses recently and sold some for very discounted prices - if these appear on Ebay, they might end up for sale here for the prices you mention. You should try a Classic Ray - a key thing about them is the fretboard radius (7.5 in) - my Classic feels quite different from my other 4 string Rays for this reason.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1353110074' post='1871848'] No.8 was, apparently, given as a gift to someone by Eric Clapton and is now in Japan. [/quote] Carl Raddle apparently (per Musicman.Org website) who was Eric Clapton's bass player through the 70s at least. Interesting thing is that if you watch footage of the era (and there was some recently on the BBC4 programme, Guitarists at the BBC) not only is Carl Raddle playing a Ray (possibly #8) but the entire back line is Musicman amps and the rythmn guitarist is playing a Stingray guitar as well!! So possibly read for Eric Clapton presenting the bass to him that the whole band was endorsed so was presented with the equipment. I have a DVD of the Average White Band playing at the Montreux Festival in 1977 and Alan Gorrie is playing what looks like an X series Stingray bass (natural, white pick up cover, black pick guard) whilst Hamish Stewart plays a sunburst one with white pickguard (mostly with a pick as opposed to Gorrie's fingerstyle and occassional slap style). They were still using Stingrays when I saw then in 79/80. The think that stands out for me on these performances is the phenominal bass sound (in the case of AWB they are using Acoustic back line for the basses).

I don't generally like black basses but that is gorgeous - totally early 70s vibe!

That's v nice but I don't like black basses. There's a dilemma with vintage basses for me - I can see the point of the first production Stingray (another current thread) being this expensive as it's really a museum piece and v interesting (to me at least) with a famous ex owner - but this is a pretty anonymous Fender Jazz that hasn't been played much - OK 45 + years old but is it REALLY worth that much? If a colour came up that I really like I might be more tempted.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353092836' post='1871653'] If they already have a X model then this ones not as important IMO plus there does not appear to be much of a nostalgic link between MM and EBMM, for me they bought a humbucker, oval plate and the 3 and 1 tuners/headstock shape. Although the design was good in the first place in reality they are quite different basses, the necks are totally different in profile and gloss finished, the pickup windings are different, the EQ's were different for the most part until the settled on 2 band,the slab body, the string through bridge, the 3 or 4 bolt necks, the standard truss rod setup, so its that oval guard and overall look that make them the same, if you remove that then they are quite different to the EBMM versions IMO [/quote] I think you may be overstating the point slightly with these Pete. The fact is that the early EBMM basses (4 bolt neck attachment) in 2 band form is pretty similar to a pre EB Stingray - they introduced the contouring from the Sabre, rather than the slab body but that improves playability. I could go and order a Classic Stingray 4 tomorrow with a natural body and a flamed maple neck that would sound virtually the same as that bass - the only significant difference would be the neck attachment and truss rod adjuster (which are updated to a more robust design) - oh and they hadn't quite got the pick up pole lengths fixed for the first year or so and they were 3 or 4 iterations away from the EQ they settled on - but they will basically have the same characteristics. I have owned all sorts of these (and currently have 5 EBMMs and no pre EBs) - the classic Stingray is as close to a re-issue pre EB you're ever likely to get - 79 spec pre amp and pick up and all. But that bass is a thing of beauty!! Major GAS.

I'm pretty sure Sterling Ball will know about this latest sale also - there's a thread posted by Gav (the Aussie expert, Musicman org website owner and Musicman bass forum moderator) on the Musicman bass forum. The old adage that you basically convert the value in dollars to £ Sterling for the same item for sale in this country seems to apply here - plus a bit of profit/reimbursement of shipping costs for the owner, and a bit for the shop fee makes it about right as far as I can see. I really think it ought to be in a museum on display or on display at Musicman - has anyone been to look at it from here? It would be an experience just to look at it let alone play it - not sure I can get up there in the next week (if it's still there) - it looks fantastic - as new - in the photos. The point made about pick up cover colours and control knobs - this is the first production Stingray - the ones with X series numbers are pre-production prototypes and all the ones I've seen have been natural finish, have white pu covers, black pick guards, and normal knurled control knobs. The 'radio' knobs appear to occur on very early Rays but knurled ones appear as well. The white pick up cover was an option on new instruments up to about 1979 (indeed I looked at a 77 Inca Silver Ray at Bass Centre a few years back which had a white pu cover). I know it's possibly a heinous crime uttering anything in this place about those six string things our guitar toting colleagues usually play far too loudly................ but Stingray guitar #0001 was also for sale not too long ago (also previously owned by Forrest White IIRC).

Love this colour combo in a Precision (and Jazz). In the early 70s, if you had any wish to play R and B, this was the bass and colour combo to have (with an Acoustic 370 stack). I'd still like one now! I saw the TOTP performance by Bad Company of Can't Get Enough of Your Love the other day and Boz Burrell was playing a natural Precision fretless with a maple board! Pastel colours on Fender basses were not on the radar at that time for young upcoming players - associated with deeply out of date and uncool genres! How times change!!

Welcome to the SR5 fold! I've had mine for ten years and despite having a number of other basses, still use this as my go to 5 string. It's very versatile and with some tricks of muting and playing style can cover sounds/genres like classic R and B perfectly well, along with most others. My bass has ceramic poles, and is subtly different from an alnico Stingray - it does have an underlying growl which can be increased or decreased with playing style and EQ. SR5s have been used a lot in recording since the 90s, and also in musical theatre live, an example is a Stax based soul show I saw a few years back - the bass player used an SR5 and it sounded perfect. He got a little solo and the sound moved more towards Alembic Stanley Clarke vibe - there is no doubt that the SR5 is highly versatile but as with everything else, unlocking that versatility is in the hands of the player to an extent also. Some of my favourite playing on Stingrays is the Nick Fyffe era Jamiroquy recordings (he used Yamahas live later).

A Sterling by Musicman Sub 5 is a good bass at a low price - plus you could try one out in a shop and see if you like it before buying. If you want to spend a little more an SBMM Ray 35 gets closer to an EBMM SR5. Or you could try some SR5s in shops. Pete, I've never actually seen a Tony Levin OLP they must be quite rare?

[sub]Yes, very nice. I picked up bits of what they were saying..............ash body, skunk stripe etc etc.[/sub] [sub]I was surprised how similar they sounded - although the range of tones on the Jazzes compared with the Precision was interesting - and the diffierence between the two Jazzes on bridge only - the 70s one sounded much brighter.[/sub]

I have two basses with oil and wax finish necks - like Musicman 20 I've never really had to adjust the necks - one is a Stingray 5 I've had for nearly 10 yrs. Recently it sat in its case for about 6 months in a range of temperatures and I decided to use it for a gig - not only did the neck not need adjusting, it was still in tune!!! Musicman would not sell them if they were unreliable as they would lose money on warranty repairs - it would be a simple task to change the arrangement but I'm guessing it's one of the selling points for a lot of people as it improves playability, which is why they don't! I have a fretless Stingray on which I keep the action very low. It requires a slight tweak at the beginning and end of the winter - oh and it has a laquered neck! It also looks quarter sawn. I personally would have no problem recommending Musicman style necks to other bassists or buying more myself - they are silky smooth to play and very fast - I think the modern Fenders I've played have a similar, if not the same arrangement? The difference with the Musicman bass is the truss rod is a doddle to tweak in comparison. I doubt your basses have any problem caused by loss of neck finish.

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1352112334' post='1858734'] There is that custom design/paint job Mustang that was done for a TV show in the Fender Bass Book. It could be that someone wanted a multi-coloured burst, and paid for a custom job. I guess to do a multi-burst, you'd simply spray each colour over the whole body?! Si [/quote] It was The Partridge Family - but that was one of THE biggest shows on tele both in US and UK in the early/mid 70s, and would have had the budget/influence/product placement potential to get it done - funnily the bass only had Fender on it (presumably so not to advertise the Ford car of the era for nothing!). The design was a bit more cohesive than this 65 one though. I think you're right in your assessment of the bass.

Not sure. However I have found that Ernie Ball Group 3s have roughly the same tension as rounds and have them on an SR4 fretless - and I did once string my SR5 with flats of a make that I won't mention (not in your list) and they had such tension that the bass became a chore to play (I didn't actually adjust truss rod or anything - just swapped the strings out for rounds again after a couple of weeks).

That's an interesting old curiosity! All sounds a bit strange really - surely they'd show off custom colours on guitars, where they'd be more likely to sell them than on a bass - least of all a P bass at that time. I'm presuming that they did fewer P bass in custom colours than Jazz basses - they rarely matched the headstock as opposed to strats and jazzes. I suppose it's possible they could have done this for a show like NAMM - but it doesn't even show the colours that well!! Some interesting looking basses surround it [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1352070230' post='1858493'] I can imagine a scenario where at the time Fender were pretty much King Of The Hill with basses, the sales guys want to go out showing off options & what they want they get[/quote] I'm not sure Fender were actually in that position at that time - as many pop bassists of the time were associated both in this country and the US with a range of other makes - the most famous of all at that time (of the Beatles) was always associated with other makes. The Shadows went from Precision to Burns basses after two or three years. It should be remembered that Fenders weren't even imported to UK before the beginning of the 60s owing to trade restrictions.

A bit more info:- [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Sabre specs:[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-11" Radius[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-Compensated Nut[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-21 High Profile, Wide Frets (like the regular Stingray)[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-2 Alnico Humbuckers[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]-Silent Circuit[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Switch Configuration (all combinations are in parallel):[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]1-Coils 1 & 2[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]2-Coils 1, 2 & 3[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]3-Coils 1, 2, 3 & 4[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]4-Coil 3[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]5-Coils 3 & 4[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Thus different from both the SR4HH and the original lever switch Sabre. In particular as well as either of the Hs or both Hs together, it gives an HS ability or a S in roughly the P bass position. Sounds v interesting.[/size][/font][/color]

I'm betting you've oredered one

[attachment=122520:pdn.jpg] Sledge package available through the Premier Dealer Network! Build codes here: SR4 Maple Board 120-SL-13-01 SR4 Rosewood Board 120-SL-15-01 SR5 Maple Board 215-SL-13-01 SR5 Rosewood Board 215-SL-15-01 Sabre Maple Board 101-SL-13-01 Sabre Rosewood Board 101-SL-15-01 These appear to be limited, for order in November only so if you want one, I'm guessing you'll have to order from one of the UK PDNs, which include Strings and Things (last time I looked!). If the PDN get this, what version do GC get eventually..............maybe a natural??

There's more info on Grand Central Music's site. Colour spec looks very interesting - basically colour shifts to any one of five or six it appears! The selector switch appears to select different coil combinations from an HH Stingray (does an HS config?). Not sure whether they come with a stick on moustache for November lol!!

Awaiting the onset of serious GAS with interest. The Sabre in the picture looks to have concealed pick up poles. And the Stingray neck looks figured but with either a lighter coloured lacquer or no lacquer. Colour looks great - interesting colour shift - like a version of mystic dream, only available on one guitar model?

First two right. (If you had a piezo, the 2nd knob has an upper which is piezo/magnetic blend Third knob is upper and lower mid. 4th knob is bass (lower) treble (top). Beware of that bass EQ - it can demolish walls. For anyone interested, the H Bongo has a 3 band EQ - I'm guessing it has 4 regular controls as per a 3 band Ray etc.