Kiwi

SX don't make a 5 string precision bass yet, do they?

We play this one in my band, its a great song if you can pull the bassline back behind the beat far enough and there's plenty of room for some tasty high speed fills at the end of sections. I think Jermaine Jackson played bass for the Jackson 5 but someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It feels like a p-bass or variant thereof to me, but the tone does sound very consistent across the neck for a straight recording. I wonder if its been heavily compressed? There's a youtube clip I've just found here with some really bad camera work - possibly an early bootleg? I'm not sure if its Jermaine playing but its definitely a greasy p-bass. Check out the footage at 0:52 and 4:45 There's a copy of the original demo [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=pCWJfzH6FDY"]here[/url] on youtube too which makes for interesting listening. The original bass line was done on a synth it seems...

[quote name='Stickman' post='159922' date='Mar 18 2008, 09:01 PM']Anyone driving up from West London?[/quote] I am and if you confirm before Dannybuoy you can keep me and s_u_y company up there.

[quote name='SpinalTap' post='161334' date='Mar 21 2008, 11:20 AM']There is no real difference between the J and the P basses (except for the pickup location)[/quote]I think you keep misunderstanding my question. But thanks for your help all the same.[quote name='SpinalTap' post='161334' date='Mar 21 2008, 11:20 AM']The P Update has a Celinder (kent armstrong) pickup, while the Classic the Antiquity II/Lindy Fralin)Here is all the information on sleekelite, that used to be on the Celinder site also...[url="http://www.sleekelite.com/catalog/celinder.html"]http://www.sleekelite.com/catalog/celinder.html[/url][/quote]Ah! Thats interesting! Table replicated below for edificated browserlating. <!--table {mso-displayed-decimal-separator:"\."; mso-displayed-thousand-separator:"\,";}@page {margin:1.0in .75in 1.0in .75in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in;}tr {mso-height-source:auto;}col {mso-width-source:auto;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}.style0 {mso-number-format:General; text-align:general; vertical-align:bottom; white-space:nowrap; mso-rotate:0; mso-background-source:auto; mso-pattern:auto; color:windowtext; font-size:10.0pt; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none; font-family:Arial; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-charset:0; border:none; mso-protection:locked visible; mso-style-name:Normal; mso-style-id:0;}td {mso-style-parent:style0; padding-top:1px; padding-right:1px; padding-left:1px; mso-ignore:padding; color:windowtext; font-size:10.0pt; font-weight:400; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none; font-family:Arial; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-charset:0; mso-number-format:General; text-align:general; vertical-align:bottom; border:none; mso-background-source:auto; mso-pattern:auto; mso-protection:locked visible; white-space:nowrap; mso-rotate:0;}.xl24 {mso-style-parent:style0; font-weight:700; vertical-align:top;}.xl25 {mso-style-parent:style0; vertical-align:top;}.xl26 {mso-style-parent:style0; vertical-align:top; border:.5pt solid black; white-space:normal;}.xl27 {mso-style-parent:style0; vertical-align:top; border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none; border-left:.5pt solid black; white-space:normal;}.xl28 {mso-style-parent:style0; vertical-align:top; border-top:none; border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:.5pt solid black; border-left:.5pt solid black; white-space:normal;}.xl29 {mso-style-parent:style0; vertical-align:top; border-top:.5pt solid windowtext; border-right:.5pt solid windowtext; border-bottom:none; border-left:none; white-space:normal;}.xl30 {mso-style-parent:style0; border-top:none; border-right:.5pt solid windowtext; border-bottom:.5pt solid windowtext; border-left:none;}.xl31 {mso-style-parent:style0; vertical-align:top; border-top:.5pt solid windowtext; border-right:.5pt solid windowtext; border-bottom:none; border-left:.5pt solid windowtext; white-space:normal;}.xl32 {mso-style-parent:style0; border-top:none; border-right:.5pt solid windowtext; border-bottom:.5pt solid windowtext; border-left:.5pt solid windowtext;}--> P Update P Vintage P Classic NECK: NECK: NECK: Attachment : Bolt-on Attachment : Bolt-on Attachment : Bolt-on Wood : 1pc. Maple with Graphite Reinforcement. Wood : 1pc. Maple with Graphite Reinforcement Wood : 1pc. Maple with Graphite Reinforcement Fingerboard : Maple, Black Top and Side Dots Fingerboard : Pau Ferro, M.O.P. Top and Vintage Acrylic Side Dots Fingerboard : Maple, Black Top Dots and Side Dots Scale : 34" (863,6mm) / 4 String Scale : 34" (863,6mm). / 4 String Scale : 34" (863,6mm) 35" (889mm) / 5 String 35" (889mm). / 5 String Frets : 21, "medium jumbo" frets Frets : 21, "vintage" frets Frets : 21, "vintage" frets Nut : Bone Nut : Bone Nut : Bone Tuning Gears : HIPSHOT Tuning Gears : HIPSHOT Tuning Gears : Hipshot HB-3 Reverse-turn Finish : Acrylic, Satin Feel on Back of Neck Finish : Acrylic, "vintage-oil" tint, Satin Feel on Back of neck Finish : Acrylic, "vintage-oil" tint BODY: BODY: BODY: Wood : Select Danish Alder Wood : Select Danish Ash Wood : Select Danish Alder Pickups : FRALIN PRECISION BASS, Passive, Hand-wound Pickups : CELINDER Original, Passive, Hand-wound Pickups : CELINDER Original, Passive, Humcancelling Controls : Volume, Tone (treble-cut) Controls : Volume, bass (cut/boost), treble (cut) Controls : Volume, bass (cut/boost), treble (cut) Preamp : None, Jack Output on Front, Reinforced Preamp : CELINDER CP-IIIA Preamp : CELINDER CP-IIIA Bridge : CELINDER Original Bridge : CELINDER Original Bridge : CELINDER Original Specials : Steel Cover Over Neck Pickup Finish : High Gloss, Acrylic Finish : High Gloss, Acrylic Finish : High Gloss, Acrylic Formatting is a bit screwed up but I don't know html very well.

I've got one of their live DVD's, Verdine looks quite funny on stage to me. Like a collection of arms, legs and springy ladies hair connected to a highly mobile bass.

[quote name='SpinalTap' post='161226' date='Mar 21 2008, 12:21 AM']Here is a P Classic with braz rosewood fretboard..... [url="http://www.bassalone.com/product_detail_1.php?id=63&photo=Celinder_P_Classic_4_001.jpg"]http://www.bassalone.com/product_detail_1....assic_4_001.jpg[/url] Between the Classic and Update you have the vintage model it's sort of a J Classic with active electronics, Celinder HC pickups! To make it even more complicated, today I received a confirmation for my custom ordered Celinder fretless a J Vintage with chambered mahogany body, cocobolo top, Celinder SC pickups brazilian rosewood unlined fretboard, Birdseyemaple J Classic neck! So as you can see there are alot of options. More Fodera than Sadowsky in that way. Hope I made the differences clear [/quote] Thanks but I was more after the differences for the p-bass. I might email Chris and ask him.

[quote name='YouMa' post='161239' date='Mar 21 2008, 01:02 AM']name of the games a good bass line by gunnerson he used those hagstrom basses i think sweden is a pretty good country for funky experimental music,they seem to dig there own thing there,its expensive to visit though.[/quote] I think he used a Fender Jazz too IIRC. Thing for me about Abba's songs is that the melodies and chord structures and sequences are so rich and cleverly integrated that its possible to come up with some very interesting improvised bass lines while still underpinning the songs. I haven't heard Julian playing with Incognito yet. I was lined up to take lessons from him at one point but he got a tour at the last minute and had to back out. I like Randy Hope Taylors playing too but Julian is a little more flamboyant to my ears perhaps.

[quote name='Shockwave' post='161171' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:45 PM']I reported the Fake auction.[/quote] cheers, I'd emailed the original seller as well. [quote name='Shockwave' post='161171' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:45 PM']And kiwi, if you dont get on with it and the necks fine, I may have it [/quote] Hehe, if the neck's fine I don't anticipate there being any other problems.

[quote name='YouMa' post='161149' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:06 PM']yeah i know he played bc rich there a quality bass,i just dont like the really pointy ones,to be honest i think someone with that amount of natural rythm could make any bass sound half decent,i know john taylor inherited his stingray,what a nice thing to own a bass that started a whole new genre.I wander if he ever gets it out and plays we are family hahaahhahaa im a disco junky those session bass players in the 70s could really play,and freddy washington on forget me nots is just brilliant.[/quote] Nice to see another discophreak here. Stuart Clayton has written a transription book full of tasty nuggets about Bernard. Check his BC forum out here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showforum=55"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showforum=55[/url] Its claimed that Bernard liked the BC Riches for their look when playing live. If you're into disco, its worth also checking out contemporary players like Julian Crampton with the Sunburst band and Joey Negro, and Gene Perez who has done quite a few NY house sessions. I'm also a long time fan of Rutger Gunnarsson who did the bass AND wrote the brass parts for Abba. Still one of the most under rated 70's players in my opinion, he should be up there with Bernard.

I see, I've changed the title. I'm still not clear on what the difference is between a classic and an update P though. Is it just the active eq? Even if it was designed to emulate a 60's bass, it totally fits the bill for 70's disco and funk. I'm not going to lose sleep over the difference if its just a matter of a preamp.

[quote name='lowdown' post='161080' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:45 PM']Hi Steve.... Are you sure the guy is straight up...? Check out the Ebay Pictures again...... Looks Like the Bass is on a a bed at Wormwood scrubs Good one mate... Only ever tried a Cutlass once..[Swifty's] And it was stonking... I am surpised he did not spot that one.. Garry[/quote] LOL I had a chat with Dave last week about it actually, but he's in Australia with Jools at the moment so only had 1 reply from him. He scored a Cutlass 1 off Ebay in the middle of last year so also has the pair. Only his are both in matching black. I quite like the white, its a bit different and I have another black bass anyway. BTW, Steve Turner played with my band a few weeks back at the Dorchester. He mentioned that he knows you.

[quote name='SpinalTap' post='161097' date='Mar 20 2008, 09:00 PM']Great bass and review. I had the pleasure of playing this when it was for sale in the Netherlands Two details. - I think this is not an Update model, but an Celinder P Classic. these are Celinders passive basses ment to duplicate the magic of very early Fenders, were the Update is more like a 70'ies on steroids bass. - The Pickups is a SD Antiquity II, as I was told. Quite standard for a Classic model.[/quote] Cheers for the info! I see BassXchange have photos of both: [i]Update P[/i] [i]Classic P[/i] Are the only differences the active eq, anodised pickguard and yellow-ish neck?

cheers, its arriving next Wedneday or Thursday, seller seems straight up. Definitely gonna be interesting to see how the neck is.

[quote name='paul, the' post='159774' date='Mar 18 2008, 05:35 PM']Everyone give Steve a hand for sharing.[/quote] There y'go, now noone is allowed to hog it.

I'm a complete groove addict. Soul, funk and disco - thats what I enjoy, thats what I play. Usually opt for a 5 string but sometimes only a 4 will do because I get the biggest buzz out of replicating the sounds on the records and recreating the same kind of vibe. I'm a closet 6 string player too and I dabble in MIDI/recording and stuff when I'm motivated enough.

No regrets here so far. Even sold on my Smith BSR6GN and Jaydee Supernatural MK, I haven't missed them yet. Each bass I now own has a place and a function.

thats pretty good!

Your impression could depend on so many factors - where you're standing for a start. They could also be using subs under the stage that couple acoustically with the venue floor.

[quote name='s_u_y_*' post='158650' date='Mar 16 2008, 10:20 PM']Hey there mate... I think I'll take you up on this offer. It's only about 30 minutes from where I live. Thanks! Just to let you know, I only plan to bring a bass and a gadget or two. Wahey, I'm sorted! [/quote] OKdoke, if you drop me a PM closer to the time I'll let you know where I can pick you up.

[i][b]Features:[/b][/i] This 34” scale instrument was made in 2003 at the Smith manufacturing facility in Perkasie, Pennsylvania. I bought it from Bass Northwest in 2005, secondhand in mint condition. The bass has 24 “frets” and 5 strings with laminated facings of unfigured walnut front and back. The fingerboard is a thick pieve of ebony and is unmarked with fret lines making it very necessary to have clean sounding monitoring on stage. The bass has a preamp and the controls include volume, which can be pulled for passive bypass, pickup pan, bass, mid and treble, with series/parallel switches and the pickups are Smiths own passive humbuckers. The body features a flamed maple core and the neck is a 5 piece graphite reinforced laminate of 3 maple and 2 bubinga pieces. The bass is finished in a soft oil finish and the body style is a modified precision inspired shape with bigger cutaways. The bridge is made from brass and is a fairly standard quick release type with two dimensions of movement. The tuners are Smith monogrammed but internally geared and almost identical to Schaller M4 in design. The neck dimensions are probably my favourite part, typically fairly chunky in depth with a pronounced C profile. This feels great to me because my hands tend to cramp up on thin profile necks. The bass came with a hardshell, leather trimmed case and case candy including dust cloth, Smith strap, polish, brochures and guarantee card. [b][i]Sound:[/i][/b] I guess the sound of this bass could be best described as warm and sweet. The lows are very full and open, the mids scooped and the highs sweet without sounding brittle or muffled. It’s pretty much the ultimate bass for any styles of music that require a full, rich tone such as RnB, hip hop, latin, house etc. At the moment I use the bass with Gallien Krueger and Trace valve amps through Gallien Krueger and EBS neo 2x12 cabs. Generally the basses have a prominent upper mid-scoop. This character is emphasised by many hybrid heads already coloured with a mid-scoop to sound best with jazz type basses making the mids so scooped that its difficult to tell what pitch is being played at performance volumes. Therefore I ended up going for a solid state and other wise fairly aggressive sounding GK amp to go with the Smith basses because the amps preserve most of the mids meaning that any tonal changes I make are more effective. After countless gigs I’ve been able to hear myself superbly in a variety of situations ranging from acoustically dead marquees to echo chamber type narrow halls with nothing but hard, reflective surfaces. The relatively neutral sound of the amps means that I can use them with other basses as well. In terms of the variety of sounds, the bass is fairly versatile but maybe not for all kinds of music. For example, the neck pickup is very warm with a little bit of a upper-mid/low treble bite which is OK for ballads while the bridge pickup does more than a passable status bass impersonation. For fretless basses, the important thing is sustain and, for a wood necked bass it has good sustain but my all-maple Pedulla has considerably more than the Smith. The series/parallel switches add a subtle fullness difference to the sound of the pickups in series mode but nothing that would influence how I would approach finding the right sound for a song. I’ve tried the bass in both live and recorded situations and its performed superbly. It doesn’t do jazz or precision interpretations very well at all but this doesn’t mean it can’t find a place in the mix. Comparing this bass to a jazz bass would be like comparing a Gibson Les Paul to a Stratocaster. What I like most about this bass is the huge warmth, growly mids and sweet highs, the bass can be plugged in with no eq and still sit in the mix superbly. In situations where the bass has been subject to extreme gain, I have noticed some microphonic characteristics with the pickups. I wouldn’t recommend this bass to be used in situations with hi gain distortion. [i][b]Action Fit and Finish:[/b][/i] The action of this instrument is pretty good, but Ken Smith deliberately builds some flexibility into the necks of his basses as he feels it adds to the quality of the sound. This means that I’ve not been able to achieve Status/Alembic levels of low action, but the bass is still very playable. The finish of components is superb and flawless, the fit is also excellent and faultless. [i][b]Reliability/Durability:[/b][/i] The bass has proven very reliable in live situations, the hardware is robust and the neck stable. The finish has proven to be very thin and probably doesn’t do a very good job of protecting the bass as such. The bass takes even fingernail marks easily and a sharp belt buckle could probably cause irreparable damage to the back of the bass over one gig. I have found that the Dunlop strap-loks haven’t been 100% reliable. In situations where diagonal strain is placed on the strap-loks, they do tend to pop off. In normal playing situations I haven’t encountered any problems and the bass has never fallen off the strap while gigging on stage. [i][b]Customer Support:[/b][/i] I have dealt with Ken Smith and have found him to be curmudgeonly at times. He has come across as defensive when I’ve raised my varied experiences of his basses with him. Other Smith owners appear to share my experiences. I get the impression that he’s not that interested in offering support unless it leads directly to a sale of some kind. This stands in stark contrast to the friendly service offered by some companies such as Alembic. [b][i]Overall rating:[/i][/b] I own a range of other bass gear including a Smith BSR5GN, Musicman, Alembic, Celinder and Pedulla plus more stuff I’ve sold on, including a Smith BSR6GN. I’ve been very satisfied with the bass since owning it, its managed to hit the right spot every time I’ve used it. Generally this is my No 1 fretless when needed and its usually taken along with its fretted sister. Originally I bought this bass to match the Smith BSR5GN. Because this bass has a maple core, the mids sound a little firmer and the bass a little tighter than on the fretted Smith 5 when played in the studio. However live on stage, the differences are negligible. There’s nothing out there on the market which sounds like a Smith. Having said that the Peavey Cirrus comes close and does have some Smith characteristics although it lacks the sweet treble and deep bass. Check other reviews here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15451"]Smith BSR5GN[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15450"]Celinder Update P[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15449"]Celinder Update J[/url]