Kiwi

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1319550507' post='1415614'] Yeah Will do.... I bought it as we are covering Jacksons 'P.Y.T' Should do the trick ;o) [/quote] Nice track - a hidden gem, got any more recommendations?

[quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1319438587' post='1413966'] I've never seen any pro want a flat board with string under tension, I've never done it that way myself but then I've only been doing fret jobs since 1985 [/quote] Well maybe it's possible there might be a different and better way of doing things. I do my own set ups too. The stiffer the neck, the easier it is to get good results with the strings off. I'd prefer not to be dragged into taking a polarised debate on the matter to be honest. [quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1319438587' post='1413966'] Which is what you're doing when you tighten it to get a flat neck under string tension.Which is why you don't want to do it when you're leveling frets. [/quote] Well I disagree and my way works really well for getting low action, do you have a problem with that?

[quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1319427246' post='1413947'] No, you're supposed to get a flat board with no string tension. [/quote] Not quite true, you're supposed to get frets presenting a level surface to the underside of the strings WHILE the neck under tension. If a player wishes more or or less relief they can set the height at the 12th fret with a truss rod but it really shouldn't really be necessary if the fret job is done well. The neck relief should just be set once for a particular gauge of strings and left. Action is set using the bridge saddles as normal to taste. [quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1319427246' post='1413947'] When you flatten a board with string tension you get backbow in the neck. [/quote] Only if you tighten too much. [quote name='Vibrating G String' timestamp='1319427246' post='141394] If you do this with heavy strings and then switch to lighter tension you don't have enough truss rod to back off any more, also you loose the range of the truss rod to deal with humidity changes. Backbow kills necks, front bow is easily fixed by truss rods.[/quote] It's worth highlighting that its unlikely a player will ever tighten the neck on their instruments to such extremes. Also, many modern basses have dual action truss rods which means they will deal with tension in either direction. Stick two of them in a neck and you have not only the ability to deal with twist but the ability to set the amount of resistance to string tension on each side of the neck.

BTW I've played Lakland basses in shops and the action is what I'd call 'medium', I don't know where the claims about precision come from. The lowest action I've ever played consistently has been on Status Series 2000 basses. Yes the graphite construction helped a lot but it set the standard for other instruments [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319368483' post='1413106'] My reading of it is it puts tension on the neck. Then measures the neck then the operator selects the profile and away it goes. [/quote] The profiles are wrong, based on an over simplification of bending characteristics. [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319368483' post='1413106'] You seem to be saying they have too measurements from a non descript piece of wood [/quote] The wood is irrelevant to why the plek machine doesn't work very well.

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319367532' post='1413080'] It's putting the force of the strings into the neck whilst it's in the plek machine. So how is that a facsimile?? [/quote] Its computing the difference of two measurements and presuming different conditions. You're an engineer, you should be familiar with the principle of ground truthing. The plek machine assumes a consistent concave curve. A convenient mathematical principle. The neck is typically is an S curve. An inconvenient reality

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319365530' post='1413032'] Looking at the vid. It puts tension on the neck to mimic strings and then dresses the frets. [/quote] It says it mimics strings but it doesn't. It measures the neck under tension It measures the neck under no tension. It computes the difference between the two measurements and ASSUMES A [b]CONCAVE[/b] CURVE. That curve is based on a mathematical facsmile of wood. The facsmile assumes a consistent structural deformation. Wood and a truss rod in a real neck doesn't deform in a structurally consistent way. Its an S bend more or less. Please let me know if I'm not making it simple enough.

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319363789' post='1412992'] The neck just sees tension it doesn't see strings and go "oh here I'm strung I must bend like this" Or "oh I have a machine simulating strings so I must bend like that" [/quote] Think of a neck as a piece of foam. Imagine that you have the piece of foam thinner at one end than it is at the other. Like a bass guitar neck. Imagine that the foam is denser at one end than the other (ie more bubbles vs less bubbles) Like a bass guitar neck with a truss rod. Now imagine whether it bends consistently or not. A bass neck bends MORE around the 7th fret and less around the 15th-19th fret. Plek doesn't imagine that at all. It assumes the neck is a consistent width and density, without a truss rod. If the Plek system was to work properly, it would take a measurement of the neck under tension, then a measurement of the neck not under tension, then bend the neck to original tension without strings so it could be machine levelled flat. The algorithm it uses to calculate bend is based on a over simplified engineering formula and not on what actually happens to bass necks under tension.

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1317511946' post='1391501'] Good luck finding a black eagle. I've never seen one in the flesh, or for sale, not many were made I don't think. Im an eagle lover too! I dont understand the pickup choice though, krist was all about proper Gibson buckers as per the ripper and RD basses. Also surprised it's not a ripper shape. Not that I'm not stoked that it's an RD! [/quote] POS basses. Seriously. Some of us are old enough to remember playing them when they were new and they were planks. Honestly, if someone in an indie/goth/metal band started playing a Steinberger XL2A, I [s]swear[/s] hope the prices would double. A fool and his money...

If you took away the name and the body shape... what would be left? What would your money buy?

You're not so foncused. NZ time is 12 hours ahead, apart from Daylight saving when its 13 hours ahead for a brief period.

[quote name='murrmac123' timestamp='1319320483' post='1412773'] I am amazed that a bass forum would generate so much discussion about leveling frets under string tension. [/quote] Because so much is charged for doing the service by guitar techs who don't understand how string tension is a more critical component of set up on basses than it is on guitars. So they'll often just tell you that the action is as low as the instrument will allow when the real reason is that they just don't know basses very well. [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1319320898' post='1412781'] They put the necks under string pressure. So it should allow for changes along the necks length. [/quote] Yes it compensates for neck curve in some form, but assumes that that the neck curve is consistent along its length. Murmac is correct about necks often assuming s-bends. The plek system doesn't compensate for this or the degree to which the neck thickness and width affects flexibility. We're talking fractions of millimetres here, but that's all it takes to make buzz on a low action set up. The plek system is an expensive white elephant...at least in the opinion of Chandlers.

[quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1319298582' post='1412466'] Yeah, although the Plek is quite misunderstood in some respects. It levels your frets, crowns and smooths them but it doesn't adjust your truss rod or smooth off the sharp ends of your frets. It measures the fret levels whilst the guitar is strung but the strings have to be removed before the machine can do the work, it just compensates for the (obvious) change in the bow of the neck once the strings are off. It's hugely expensive for what it does but I guess once you get past a certain number of guitars or basses it makes it worthwhile in comparison to dressing the frets by hand. [/quote] The Plek system doesn't compensate for how the neck bends differently along its own length. I posted a conversation I had a number of years ago with Chandlers in Kew about their machine as I was planning on having my Smith 6 done. I think the best results will vary according to how low you like the action on your instrument. For those who can slip a pound coin under their strings at the 12th fret, they probably don't need a lot of precision in the levelling. They could probably be happy with a fret job with the neck under truss rod tension alone. For those who like their action buzz free and a gnats whisker above the 12th fret, more care is needed to shape the frets flat when the neck is subject to EXACTLY the same tension as when fully strung with the string gauge of choice. EDIT: But you may also have to make neck adjustments more often if the neck isn't stiff (as is often the case with growly sounding basses). Its horses for courses, not every bass player out there will need that level of precision so I think there's a risk of people believing there's only one kind of fret job when its more a case of not spending more money than you have to to get the result you're happy with. Best results I could imagine are in line with murmac's suggestion, ie. levelling the frets under string tension BUT using a jig that simulates string tension like this: [url="http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Jigs_and_fixtures/Erlewine_Neck_Jig.html"]http://www.stewmac.c...e_Neck_Jig.html[/url] Its an expensive investment if you only a couple of basses though. So the technofret approach seems an interesting and cost effective alternative despite being a bit fiddlier than using the neck jig. (I'd probably have a chat to a local engineering company and see if they had any offcuts of extruded L-beam aluminium that I could customise if straight enough...)

Nice. Thanks for the tip Matt.

I remember seeing someone playing a Kestrel on a late night music show in a Richard Niles led band.

Would have been good if Meshell had come back in on the vox after that piano solo with 'I'm diggin' you...like an old latin record."

Dyson's got a nice growl going on there with his MTD but the low end lacks authority. That's kind of what has put me off MTD's when I've played them in shops. Love the playing though...not often you hear a two bass solo, let alone one that kind of works.

Yup

Factoid: Ken Smith employed Vinnie Fodera to make these basses when he was starting up the business. No. 13 [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/KEN-SMITH-ELECTRIC-BASS-GUITAR-SERIAL-NO-13-/330607200036?pt=Guitar&hash=item4cf9b98724#ht_1447wt_1185"]http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_1447wt_1185[/url] No. 26 [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Smith-Electric-Bass-Serial-026-made-Ken-Smith-VERY-RARE-/120796939026?pt=Guitar&hash=item1c200f0312#ht_500wt_1202"]http://www.ebay.com/...2#ht_500wt_1202[/url] Both have an onboard envelope follower.

If anyone ever finds themselves with both a MM bridge and a body, the two may not line up if from different years around the late 80's to early 90's.

Its just how the bridge was designed in preEB instruments. It was amended in EB basses.

Will [i]probably[/i] have a neck like a banana but some people out there like medium action. US only shipping so time to call in that favour from US based friends or rellies! [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Music-Man-Cutlass-II-Graphite-Four-String-Bass-Guitar-/250914602828?pt=Guitar&hash=item3a6bacff4c#ht_15369wt_1185"]http://www.ebay.com/...ht_15369wt_1185[/url] The price is worth getting excited about but there seems to be a lot of interest.

Is all your browsing software fully updated?

Fiddle?

[quote name='alanbass1' timestamp='1318846402' post='1406684'] Yep, she ain't going nowhere and my son has his expectant eye on her.........he plays as well, so he wants to inherit what he calls 'The Keeper'[/quote] That bass has become an heirloom...a legacy. It'll become legendary. In order: '79 Alembic Series 1 graphite (rarer than a 52 P-bass ) '78 Musicman Stingray (because money can't buy that mojo) '00 Spector NS5CR (might as well be called 'The Wife') '84 Steiny XL25A narrow (not that rare but don't come up for sale much either) The rest, while of sentimental value, could be replaced in one form or another if the house burned down.