URGENT help required

[Rumble]

Need some double speed advice please folks, pleeeeeaaase!

I used to have two Aguilar 112's and loved the full, warm tone, but they lacked some of the mids to bite through the mix.

I currently have a Berg HS210 which is a really great cab, but probably isn't really as warm as it is clean.

Given that it looks like I've sold my Warwick, would a Schroder 1212L or an Epifani 410UL give me that warmth that I had with the Agi's but with a bit more mids bite?

Please help!!

[franzbassist]

Of the two, I'd go with the Epi 410.

[wateroftyne]

Why aren't you getting on with the Berg? Do you feel it's not warm enough?

Try rolling the horn off, or near as damn it.

[Rumble]

Hmmm, not sure it's just to do with the horn; more a voicing of the cab.

Don't get me wrong it's a fabulous cab, but I'd just love something of the buttery lovely low end that I used to get from the Agi's.

[Chris Horton]

My vote goes to the epifani 410 only as i have one and love it

[wateroftyne]

I'd give the Schro a VERY wide berth, in that case...!

[Rumble]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='918280' date='Aug 7 2010, 07:30 PM']I'd give the Schro a VERY wide berth, in that case...![/quote]

Really; why?

[quote name='Chris Horton' post='918278' date='Aug 7 2010, 07:29 PM']My vote goes to the epifani 410 only as i have one and love it [/quote]

Is it still possible to get some good 'ole jazz growl as well as the smooth, buttery stuff?

[wateroftyne]

Schroeders don't do buttery bottom end.. It's not their 'thing'. They're all about mid-punch.

[Rumble]

Not sure that I don't really have that already with the Berg??

[JTUK]

I get a great sound out of GS112's..IMO.. but you have to EQ that hi mid in some rooms.

I find that with the right room...ie slight hard, then a bridge pick-up is the DB's..

I think they also work better with actives as well. I am constantly and pleasantly surprised with the sounds I can get.
The low end is superb, the horn is very sweet..never harsh at around 4-5 on the attenuator..I just think you have to add a tad of hi mids..

Also, your band have to help you out..the gtr must realise and be ABLE to roll off his bass and the keys need to stay out of your zone as well.
Don't get me started on the kit.

If they just EQ for their sound, then you'll have problem whatever cabs you use..or always be on the back foot.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='918287' date='Aug 7 2010, 07:40 PM']Schroeders don't do buttery bottom end.. It's not their 'thing'. They're all about mid-punch.[/quote]

Really? I play reggae through my 1212L week in and week out with f***ing tonnes of bottom end. Maybe I imagined it. Over and over again.

TBH though if someone says "Oh I need more bite - do I buy an Epifani or a Schroeder cab" my response would be "Adjectives are a fairly useless measure of frequency response to everybody except c**ts in guitar shops and forums".

[chris_b]

In my opinion, the Epifani beats the Schroeder by a mile or 10. What amp are you using?

A 2x10 will always sound "less full" when compared to 2 112's, especially Aguilar. If you're a fan of GS112's and want more mids get 2 DB112's. They fixed the mid-shy GS issue with the DB range.

I'd also look at the DB410 in the for sale section.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='chris_b' post='918494' date='Aug 8 2010, 02:30 AM']In my opinion, the Epifani beats the Schroeder by a mile or 10. What amp are you using?[/quote]

I would love to see the curve on your scale of cabinet winningness (let's ignore your definition of cab winningness for the time being). It sounds like it gets quite steep towards the top end.

Honestly is there a subject with more unchallenged bullshit talked about it than speaker cabinets?

[thisnameistaken]

Sorry if the above sounded aggressive but the responses are often very predictable.

To the OP: If you play boutique basses then buy the most expensive cab you can find. You will probably notice the difference.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='918506' date='Aug 8 2010, 03:09 AM']"Adjectives are a fairly useless measure of frequency response to everybody except c**ts in guitar shops and forums"[/quote]


[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='918506' date='Aug 8 2010, 03:09 AM']Sorry if the above sounded aggressive but the responses are often very predictable.[/quote]
It did. Calm down, son... It's only the internet.

However, here's some more predictable b*llsh*t for ya. Feel free to challenge it.....

I'm glad you don't find this to be the case with your cab. Maybe Jorg has changed something - I dunno.

To the OP - My comments (and of course, it's my experience only) are based on three years and hundreds of gigs as the owner of two Schroeder cabs - the 410L and the 2012L, both of which are bigger boxes than the 1212L, and by nature should have a more inherent bottom end.

In my experience, playing P's and J's with flats through a number of lead-sled heads, these cabs were all about low mid-punch all the way. At gig volume, the big, pillowy 'effortless' bottom-end just doesn't exist, even when I tried to EQ it in.

I remember in the middle of all this I occasionally did a few gigs with other cabs, including Warwickhunt's pair of DB112s, and I was always quite surprised to feel that fatness to the notes appear out of nowhere. It was a quality I'd forgotten about.

The Schroeders are good cabs, but A/B'd with decent conventional cabs that have room to breathe (like the Aggies), there's a quality there that they just don't have.

It eventually sent me on a search for new cabs, and I ended up with the HS210s which - for my needs - are the perfect balance between punch and fat defined bottom end. Maybe not enough for you, though, But then, the head I use has quite fat lows. What head are you using?

It's always best to get a range of opinions though, so have a scan through Talkbass. There's hundreds of posts from Schroeder users on there, many of whom who of a similar opinion to me (and no doubt a few who don't), and of course, [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349217"]posts from people with experience of that specific cab[/url], which I don't have.

Hope this helps...

Edited August 8, 2010 by wateroftyne

[Rumble]

Thanks for all your comments .... the constructive ones, at least! ;-)

I'm using a MB LMII which, as we all know, has a pretty flat response.

Chris - thanks for the suggestion of the Agi DB's. For some reason, I hadn't really thought of them. Will check the DB410 out, but can't remember if it's within my budget.

Thanks again, chaps.

[JTUK]

I understand that the LMll and Ag cabs are well matched and maybe your GS cabs are just a tad shy higher up for your set-up
I would play around for a while before giving up on the GS cabs...it takes me weeks to tune in what I think I am missing
but now I never touch the amp EQ. I do have a very powerful pre on the bass which deffo helps so I don't understand how people can't make them work. You have those great filters on the amp...have you explored them..?

A friend of mine uses Epi 12's with an LMll or lll..which are very pillowy, but his don't bark like my GS's. Of course, everybody hears and wants different emphasis
but your question deserved a range of opinions on cab characterics and largely you got them. These may or may not work for you but most 'reviews' or experiences are given in good faith, IMO, and should provide you with a list of options for research.

You aren't going to buy purely from advice here but they may help you refine what you want.

If the DB series can give you the GS bottom with a mid emphasis then they should be on your list, IMO.
Mids can be quite hard to control playing-wise which is why so many prefer a scoop, tho.

If I wanted a punchy and big low-end but also that cut through a powerful mix, my list would start at
GS112..which you know about.
DB112
Berg AE112 and that is just the 12's

WOT, well said.

[chris_b]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='918503' date='Aug 8 2010, 03:00 AM']I would love to see the curve on your scale of cabinet winningness (let's ignore your definition of cab winningness for the time being). It sounds like it gets quite steep towards the top end.

Honestly is there a subject with more unchallenged bullshit talked about it than speaker cabinets?[/quote]
What part of "in my opinion" are you having trouble with?

[chris_b]

[quote name='Rumble' post='918552' date='Aug 8 2010, 09:28 AM']Thanks for all your comments .... the constructive ones, at least! ;-)

I'm using a MB LMII which, as we all know, has a pretty flat response.

Chris - thanks for the suggestion of the Agi DB's. For some reason, I hadn't really thought of them. Will check the DB410 out, but can't remember if it's within my budget.

Thanks again, chaps.[/quote]
I love the Aguilar "sound" and would still have mine, if they were a tad lighter!

As a Bergantino user I would also suggest, if it's within your budget, you take your cab to Mark at Bass Direct and try it with another HS210. I gigged with my AE210 stack last night and the sound just blew me away. My Bartolini pickups are pretty bass oriented, but I used to use an LM2 and found that flat, no pre shapes and a tad of bass worked really well with all of my cabs, Aguilar GS112's, Bergantino AE's and Epifani 410.

[wateroftyne]

Ah... Just realised you're using a single Berg. One definitely won't do it at volume. A pair is a different story... They sound huge.

[JTUK]

Yes, I should add that I wouldn't be doing any gig unless very quiet with just the 1 12" cab.

2 12" cabs..whole new ball-game as one cab would be such a dissapointment by comparison, IMV.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='918503' date='Aug 8 2010, 03:00 AM']Honestly is there a subject with more unchallenged bullshit talked about it than speaker cabinets?[/quote]


[i][size=3]'Where are you?'[/size][/i]

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Rumble' post='918144' date='Aug 7 2010, 05:13 PM']Need some double speed advice please folks, pleeeeeaaase!
would a Schroder 1212L or an Epifani 410UL give me that warmth that I had with the Agi's but with a bit more mids bite?

Please help!![/quote]

I would say no to the 1212L and i have no idea about the 410UL.

I would say that the 1212L will give more mids, and certainly cut through a loud mix but i wouldn't call it warm. I find mine can produce enough low end to annoy people at gigs but its not a smooth and buttery low end, more like a thickening of low mids. Does the job though and out in the room its pretty smooth overall.

I would say the bigger cab will get you a bigger low end. Saying that, i had a UL212 that lacked fullness and punch, and replaced it with a 1212L thats smaller but that really did make a big difference.
Not sure what my point is there to be honest.

[solofunkyjazz]

It's a shame you can't try cabs in a gig situation, 'cos that's when you use them.

I always found the 2 Epifani 4x10's that I had to be 'muffled'. They were quite mid shy but very warm sounding, so I don't think that'd be your best choice.

The Aguilar GS cabs are similar, mid shy but warm sounding.

The Aguilar DB cabs are I think warm but with a more pronounced mid focus, and that would be my recommendation. They're also more reasonably priced.

The best guy to ask is Ken Jung on talkbass, he's tried pretty much every cab/amp combination on the planet.

Most people will only recommend what they use themselves, and if they've been duped into buying something overpriced and 'boutique' then they'll try and talk you into that.

Try experimenting with your EQ settings.

I've tried loads of cabs over the last few years. Bergs are way over priced for what they are, and have a 'sound' that if you like it then great, if not you have to try and get rid of it. The same goes for Epifani.

[JTUK]

[quote name='solofunkyjazz' post='919450' date='Aug 9 2010, 11:54 AM']It's a shame you can't try cabs in a gig situation, 'cos that's when you use them.

I always found the 2 Epifani 4x10's that I had to be 'muffled'. They were quite mid shy but very warm sounding, so I don't think that'd be your best choice.

The Aguilar GS cabs are similar, mid shy but warm sounding.

The Aguilar DB cabs are I think warm but with a more pronounced mid focus, and that would be my recommendation. They're also more reasonably priced.

The best guy to ask is Ken Jung on talkbass, he's tried pretty much every cab/amp combination on the planet.

[u][b]Most people will only recommend what they use themselves, and if they've been duped into buying something overpriced and 'boutique' then they'll try and talk you into that.[/b][/u]

Try experimenting with your EQ settings.

I've tried loads of cabs over the last few years. Bergs are way over priced for what they are, and have a 'sound' that if you like it then great, if not you have to try and get rid of it. The same goes for Epifani.[/quote]

Ain't that the truth..

I did laugh aloud at that...

At the end of the day, there is no substitute for trying something and seeing if it works in your context..unfortunately, this might cost you a few bucks in a mistake here and there.

I am happy enough that I have kept my stuff and worked on it rather than be so far off with my expectations that I have had to sell it on staright away.

Edited August 9, 2010 by JTUK