Vintage MIJ (formerly J@pCr@p) Spotting

[tauzero]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='196039' date='May 10 2008, 04:03 PM']I have NO IDEA what this is ...

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Royal-Artist-Bruno-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ280225860118QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Royal-Artist-Bruno-B...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote]
The sunburst and hardware is reminiscent of the Woolies specials from the early 70s. Headstock has nice facing on it.

[Bassassin]

Aria Pro CSB300 (medium scale), in hard case, very reasonable BIN & cheap postage:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260239543592"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260239543592[/url]

Edit: Bugger! Too late!!

The jury's still out about the Royal Artist - beyond late 60s/early 70s JapCrap, I'm stumped for an ID! Bruno was/is a US importer, & Royal Artist one of their sub-brands, so it's likely pretty rare on these shores, certainly in that guise.

Whether it's £250+ rare is very much another matter!

J.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Bassassin

[mr.sibs]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='197121' date='May 12 2008, 01:20 PM']Aria Pro CSB300 (medium scale), in hard case, very reasonable BIN & cheap postage:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260239543592"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260239543592[/url]

Edit: Bugger! Too late!!

The jury's still out about the Royal Artist - beyond late 60s/early 70s JapCrap, I'm stumped for an ID! Bruno was/is a US importer, & Royal Artist one of their sub-brands, so it's likely pretty rare on these shores, certainly in that guise.

Whether it's £250+ rare is very much another matter!

J.[/quote]


that aria was a bargain

[Musky]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='197121' date='May 12 2008, 01:20 PM']Aria Pro CSB300 (medium scale), in hard case, very reasonable BIN & cheap postage:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260239543592"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260239543592[/url]

Edit: Bugger! Too late!!

The jury's still out about the Royal Artist - beyond late 60s/early 70s JapCrap, I'm stumped for an ID! Bruno was/is a US importer, & Royal Artist one of their sub-brands, so it's likely pretty rare on these shores, certainly in that guise.

Whether it's £250+ rare is very much another matter!

J.[/quote]

Good job that went - I would have bought if I'd seen it, and I'm running out of excuses why I [i]need[/i] another bass.


Incidentally Jon, that Royal Artist would appear to be a relation of Ventura. There are a couple of posts around the net from people asking for info on their Ventura semis, and include the detail that it was "made by Kasuga". I'm guessing this has probably gleaned from the label inside. Old news?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Musky' post='197424' date='May 12 2008, 07:32 PM']Incidentally Jon, that Royal Artist would appear to be a relation of Ventura. There are a couple of posts around the net from people asking for info on their Ventura semis, and include the detail that it was "made by Kasuga". I'm guessing this has probably gleaned from the label inside. Old news?[/quote]
There's not much Ventura info out there - but since according to this page (which promises more than it delivers, unfortunately!) [url="http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/ventura/ventura_bruno.html"]http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/...tura_bruno.html[/url] - Ventura was a Bruno brand - there is a connection, and it's quite likely similar models appeared under both names.

Kasuga's a possibility as builder - only really based on the fact that they are known to have been building off-brand guitars in the 60s & early 70s. The connection comes, again probably from the above page, where the writer identifies Kasuga with Tokai - which is slightly erroneous, as any fule kno.

Like all these things, until we find one the same bearing a brand with a known & verified provenance, it's guesswork - and even if you have that, it's still usually about as clear as hippo poo.

J.

[Musky]

Yeah, I suppose aside from the importer there's no reason to think they're built in the same factories. Even the Venturas seem to hae been sourced rom different factories at one time or another.
References to Kasuga:
[url="http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars/rec/2889/wwwboard/messages/283.shtml"]http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars...sages/283.shtml[/url]

and here - [url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ventura/V-20/10/1"]http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews...ntura/V-20/10/1[/url]

Post here refering to 'Steel Adjustable Neck' - sounds very much like Matsumoku, which I think you suspected.
[url="http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars/rec/160/wwwboard/messages/364.shtml"]http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars...sages/364.shtml[/url]

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Musky' post='197605' date='May 12 2008, 11:28 PM']Yeah, I suppose aside from the importer there's no reason to think they're built in the same factories. Even the Venturas seem to hae been sourced rom different factories at one time or another.
References to Kasuga:
[url="http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars/rec/2889/wwwboard/messages/283.shtml"]http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars...sages/283.shtml[/url]

and here - [url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ventura/V-20/10/1"]http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews...ntura/V-20/10/1[/url]

Post here refering to 'Steel Adjustable Neck' - sounds very much like Matsumoku, which I think you suspected.
[url="http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars/rec/160/wwwboard/messages/364.shtml"]http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars...sages/364.shtml[/url][/quote]
The Kasuga references do sound pretty convincing - one is clearly what's marked on the guitar & it's reasonable to infer that the other one is too.

I've never seen a Steel Adjustable plate on anything I [i]know[/i] to be a Kasuga - but realistically the Matsumoku thing's potentially a bit of a red herring. If you read the more clued-up folk on the Matsumoku forum, they'll tell you that there's no known/proven link between Aria guitars (being, as you know the main brand associated with Mat) and the Matsumoku factory prior to 1975.

Before that, no-one's quite sure where Aria guitars were from, in fact it's generally assumed that Shiro Arai co had their own factory. This is further confused by speculation that necks, bodies & hardware all came from different sources - and Kasuga has been suggested as one of those sources.

The suggestion that Aria/Arai had their own factory is strengthened by this vintage Greco catalogue archive:

[url="http://psyco.jp/greco/cata.html"]http://psyco.jp/greco/cata.html[/url]

These seem to date back to the very early 70s - Greco's parent company is Kanda Shokai - and both Aria & Fujigen Gakki appear namechecked in the literature. The early Greco line included Rick copies that are plainly from both sources - the distinctive Gibson type pups & full-width inlays on the Fujigen, and the very accurate version from Aria.

With a few exceptions, it's becoming harder & harder to pin particular brands to specific manufacturers - even the ones we [i]thought[/i] we understood - and this is the result of uncovering more information. And the further back you go, the more random it all seems. With some of these weird old things like this Royal Artist sometimes the best you can settle for is "Made In Japan".

J.

[Musky]

Interesting Jon. I had thought that 'Steel Adjustable Neck' on the plate usually indicated Matsumoku manufacture. Does that mean other manufacturers used these words as well (or as you suggest, that Mat were simply buying in the plates from elsewhere)?

On a slightly different note, do you know if Mats always had this on the neck plate and if they didn't when did they start/stop using it? Any idea of any other brands that have used this wording?

[Bassassin]

I think I'd be inclined to associate these neckplates with Aria-related brands rather than Matsumoku specifically. I've never seen the plates on an instrument I know to be from a different factory - but this is one of these cases where you have to make assumptions - eg an Eros (Rosetti UK brand name) LP copy with this plate can be assumed to have an Aria/Mat connection.

Realistically, when you consider the known Japanese factories - Matsumoku, Fujigen, Moridaira, Kasuga etc, it's incredibly unlikely that they were each producing every component of their guitars in-house. Hardware will almost certainly be ordered in from elsewhere, either generic stock, or the the customer's spec. Hence I think it's likely that all "steel adjustable" neckplates will have an Aria/Mat connection. This may be incorrect - for example, while all non-serial Fujigen neckplates have Made In Japan on the lower half - not all guitars with these plates are from Fujigen. If you follow the point I'm making!

Anyway to answer your neckplate question - these started appearing from the mid-70s:



I think this coincides with the introduction of sequential serial numbering - I don't know but I'm assuming this works like a Fujigen SN - first letter is the month - C representing March, 77 is the year & the remainder the production run for that month.

J.

[Musky]

As ever, you're a font of knowledge Jon.

So in short, the Ventura with the Steel Adjustable neck might have originated from Mat. Or it might not.

Doncha just love JapCrap!

[Happy Jack]

Another totally obscure piece of tat:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GOLDEN-OLDIE-BASS-GUITAR-60s-70s_W0QQitemZ120262650694QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GO...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='200778' date='May 16 2008, 10:42 PM']Another totally obscure piece of tat:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GOLDEN-OLDIE-BASS-GUITAR-60s-70s_W0QQitemZ120262650694QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GO...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote]
You'd have a job getting to the toppest frets on that 'un.

[beerdragon]

i was in that shop yesterday and reccomended another basschatter for a tune up and a look at it is bass. he is ok really. what can i say. he must keep those out the back becuse i have not seen that and and his other basses at all.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='200778' date='May 16 2008, 10:42 PM']Another totally obscure piece of tat:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GOLDEN-OLDIE-BASS-GUITAR-60s-70s_W0QQitemZ120262650694QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GO...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote]

Familiar shape if you sniff around a bit:



Ibanez 1250, from 1960. There are a lot of differences, but overall, I'd say it's a relation. No idea who was making Ibanez that long ago - not Fujigen, so it could well have been Guya.

J.

[pete.young]

'80s Aria Explorer. Or maybe not, but I think it looks nice whether it is or no.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Custom-Explorer-Bass-80s-build-Aria-Pro_W0QQitemZ290231719902QQihZ019QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Custom-Explo...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[Bassassin]

Very pretty - but if it was ever an Aria Explorer bass (by which I assume they mean a ZZB) it's been wildly customised, beyond any real connection:



It's a shame the pics aren't better, looks like a really nice job. BTW this has been on before, hasn't it?

J.

[Ou7shined]

[quote]BTW this has been on before, hasn't it?[/quote]
Was bought a [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290226612486"]couple of weeks[/url] ago for a bit less. A lot of info on what it looks like but nothing on the pups. In fact from that pic it almost looks like there aren't any. Would suit a scratch plate imho.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Ou7shined

[paul, the]

Just popped on. An Ibanez Blazer Precision

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Blazer-Precision-Bass_W0QQitemZ330237593874"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Blazer-Precis...emZ330237593874[/url]

[Happy Jack]

At last ... one with a sensible price!

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Commodore-Semi-Acoustic-Bass-Guitar-MIJ-Vintage-60s-70s_W0QQitemZ140234671202QQihZ004QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Commodore-Semi-Acous...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='203220' date='May 20 2008, 08:25 PM']At last ... one with a sensible price!

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Commodore-Semi-Acoustic-Bass-Guitar-MIJ-Vintage-60s-70s_W0QQitemZ140234671202QQihZ004QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Commodore-Semi-Acous...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote]

Shame it's unlikely to stay that sensible - there's a distinct lack of any Aria-related semi-acoustics in my tiny collection...

Speaking of Arias (of the Pro II variety), anyone interested in a very rare SB-series bass should look at this:
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-Pro-II-SB-1200-active-bass-guitar_W0QQitemZ150249339821"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-Pro-II-SB-1200-...emZ150249339821[/url]

A bit of info:
[url="http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fyfeholt/sb1200.htm"]http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fyfeholt/sb1200.htm[/url]

And by a bizarre coincidence, the bass he's talking about on that page (not the one in the pics) is the one for sale. Only 8 of them made...

Apropos of nothing, the guitarist in my band used to play with the chap selling the Aria. Until we poached him...

J.

[budget bassist]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WESTONE-THUNDER-III-ACTIVE-BASS-BLACK_W0QQitemZ280228946790QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]westone thunder III[/url]..... niiiiiice!

nice looking [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-Pro-II-Bass-Guitar-CSB-450-Excellent-Condition_W0QQitemZ120261261523QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]aria pro II[/url]

Anyone know what aria STB jazz copies are like?

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='203249' date='May 20 2008, 09:00 PM']Shame it's unlikely to stay that sensible - there's a distinct lack of any Aria-related semi-acoustics in my tiny collection... [/quote]


Aaaargh!

When I posted, it had a BiN of just £120! I hoped someone here would snap it up ...

[nick]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='203368' date='May 20 2008, 11:35 PM']Aaaargh!

When I posted, it had a BiN of just £120! I hoped someone here would snap it up ...[/quote]

Someone should do.
Got one myself - they're a nice, playable bass.
Though I do want to change/get rewound pickup in mine at some point. It's 15k - bit too hot for this sort of instrument (IMO) = bit wooly

[paul, the]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='203330' date='May 20 2008, 10:42 PM']nice looking [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-Pro-II-Bass-Guitar-CSB-450-Excellent-Condition_W0QQitemZ120261261523QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]aria pro II[/url][/quote]

'nosey/beaky'

:wub:
I'm in love.

[nick]

An 80's Ibanez Blazer - lovely jubley!
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Blazer-Precision-Bass_W0QQitemZ330237593874QQihZ014QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Blazer-Precis...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

And another one exactly same as mine but this one's got three controls - custom or perhaps a mod.?
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Blazer-Bass-Guitar-Like-Fender-Jazz-Precision_W0QQitemZ320254165971QQihZ011QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ibanez-Blazer-Bass-G...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

Edited May 23, 2008 by nick