mcgraham Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 On Sunday, I played through a makeshift equivalent of in ears [i]sans [/i]rig: bass-->small mixing desk|-->headphones |-->aux out to DI/PA desk I've [i][b][u]never [/u][/b][/i]heard myself so clearly. Also, the PA guys got a good signal (which I could mute if I wanted to practice silently), and there was no fighting over the volume of my rig. This revelation has left me reconsidering the in-ear monitoring option, and wondering whether I should sell my rig in light of this. I'm basically stumped on this issue, and would appreciate any input/experiences/comments that others more experienced than I could contribute to this. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnwhy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 well i wouldn't sell your rig for it, because as soon as you did you'd have a gig with a vocal only PA.. never used in ears myself, but i think i would be paranoid not knowing how it sounded to anyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Sod's law that would be the case I too dislike not knowing what's coming through the mix, however you have to trust your sound man - that's their responsibility. I will admit I don't fully trust the mixing skills of some of the PA team at my church, but honestly, as long as I can hear both myself and the band clearly then I'm happy If the feedback on the mix/sound is poor then that's the PA team's fault, not mine. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotnwhy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='623989' date='Oct 12 2009, 02:09 PM']however you have to trust your sound man[/quote] i've never trusted sound men.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hi Mark I had in ears for a dep job I did in Germany in June this year. It was a rock band with orchestra (45 piece) in a small stadium. I also had a (provided) Markbass 4x10 and 1x12 with a big MB amp, the in ears were great but I could feel the rig and that really helped. My verdict would therefore be... depends on the size of the gig. Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote]depends on the size of the gig[/quote] Mmm! Indeed! There's certainly pros and cons to this option, but at present, all I can think about was how clearly I could hear myself. Re: extra 'feeling': On Sunday it was excellent as I got most of the mids and top end from the headphones (ear bud style - on purpose for ambience) and the PA provided some 'feeling' and low end. It was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='623870' date='Oct 12 2009, 12:15 PM'].... the PA guys....[/quote] This is where it all goes wrong for me on most gigs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) [quote]This is where it all goes wrong for me on most gigs!![/quote] Tell me about it... I've basically given up fighting or even discussing things with them. At the end of the day, they control the front of house mix, not us, so I may as well ensure that any issues that arise are squarely on their shoulders rather than mine, and make sure they have nothing on me that they can say was my fault. Edited October 12, 2009 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 In-ears are a good thing IMO. I've gigged with and without. I prefer in-ears with a small rig to move air. It's tricky though if you play with several different groups. You'd ideally want everyone in the group on the in-ears as it's much more manageable. Downside is trusting the PA and sound guy and the expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-T-P Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Love in-ears but still rely on having an amp present for the physical feeling of the sound of a bass, if that makes sense. If you're concerned about not being loud enough and don't have a soundman, simple answer is to err on the loud side and your bandmates will soon let you know. I tend to play the first tune or two without in-ears so I know levels are working as they should and then pop them in for the rest of the set. If it's a two set (or more) night, I usually take them out either for or during the last number so I have an idea of whether any level adjustment needs to be made before the next set (usually because of excited guitarists). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 If I used in-ears I'd want to have a full mix of the whole band - I don't just want to hear my bass (and never have a problem with that anyway) I want to hear the music we're creating and fit my playing to that (not just what notes I play but how I play them). Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='624801' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:07 AM']If I used in-ears I'd want to have a full mix of the whole band - I don't just want to hear my bass (and never have a problem with that anyway) I want to hear the music we're creating and fit my playing to that (not just what notes I play but how I play them).[/quote] The theory is that you set the level of your bass in the in-ears so that it blends nicely with the sound that's leaking through the earplugs. If you're hearing too much bass, at the expense of everything else, then you just turn the volume of your IEMs down. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_da_man Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 How will you hear the rest of the band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='624803' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:13 AM']The theory is that you set the level of your bass in the in-ears so that it blends nicely with the sound that's leaking through the earplugs. If you're hearing too much bass, at the expense of everything else, then you just turn the volume of your IEMs down.[/quote] But that brings up two issues: Firstly how much hearing protection do the IEMs provide? And secondly, how coloured is the leakage - the last thing I'd want is the treble-less boomy leakage you get through non-filtered earplugs! Maybe I'm strange* but I never have a problem hearing myself at gigs. Alex * This is a rhetorical supposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='Stan_da_man' post='624805' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:14 AM']How will you hear the rest of the band?[/quote] S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='Stan_da_man' post='624805' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:14 AM']How will you hear the rest of the band?[/quote] Forget the band, what about hearing your cat? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='624812' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:20 AM']But that brings up two issues: Firstly how much hearing protection do the IEMs provide? And secondly, how coloured is the leakage - the last thing I'd want is the treble-less boomy leakage you get through non-filtered earplugs![/quote] The answer is, it depends. For best results, you'd want an IEM system that works in conjunction with your desired moulded musicians' earplugs. You'd then choose the earplugs that give you the ideal attenuation and frequency response. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote]If I used in-ears I'd want to have a full mix of the whole band[/quote] I used a set of B&O earbuds (with the metal ear frame) as this allowed the band's sound in and allowed for ambient noise of the congregation in as well. We communicate a lot on stage so this is vital. I do have some average in-ear canal earphones, but these don't filter frequencies evenly and would impede understanding the rest of the team/band. There is a spare monitor channel so we will try giving me my own monitor feed one Sunday. I'm playing guitar this week so may not do it then (also short on time) but it would be interesting to try with earbuds and an actual monitor mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morsefull Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm considering the whole issue of in ear monitoring after our church received a complaint about noise levels last Sunday. Although I have to say I would want control over headphone volumes myself. I won't trust my precious hearing to the sound guy I'm presently using an old Ashdoiwn ABM C115 combo as a monitor. Angled back on a stand, facing stage back and DI'd to FOH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I think your personal monitor pack would allow you to have control over the final volume in your ears. I certainly have control over the headphone level using the mixing desk solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex09 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I've recently purchased ACS T1 Custom Triple Driver Monitors for use on larger gigs where i don't feel a bass rig is needed. Using the in ears is very isolating but at the same time liberating. It is safe to say that if you have an incompetent engineer then it isn't going to be a pleasant evening, hearing yourself can be difficult and from time to time belt pack batteries run out. Though when everything is working right and the engineer is confident it is amazing. As with any piece of equipment you have to weigh up the pros and cons. I personally prefer to take the least amount of the equipment to get the job done, with this in mind, larger gigs where the bass is going to be DI'd i prefer to take a bass and my in-ear monitoring (this is of course subject to engineers willingness to help). I also appreciate that some gigs require head and cabinets. Though again i personally think about the future and my health. As soon as i can get rid of lugging heavy equipment round the better. Purchasing in-ear monitoring is a choice that entails more then just hearing ones self. Its about reducing decibels levels ensuring that later on in life you can enjoy the sound of your instrument and more importantly conversations with fellow low end freaks. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 [quote name='alex09' post='627051' date='Oct 15 2009, 04:20 PM']Purchasing in-ear monitoring is a choice that entails more then just hearing ones self. Its about reducing decibels levels ensuring that later on in life you can enjoy the sound of your instrument and more importantly conversations with fellow low end freaks.[/quote] If you don't want to go in-ear, then proper musician's earplugs like ER15s provide clarity and protection. Bear in mind that if you do use in-ears you should be aware that as with all headphones they can go loud enough to cause hearing damage, and feedback screeches can be very dangerous indeed. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='624813' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:21 AM'][/quote] That is the best image I've ever seen drawn up here. It should become your avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='627089' date='Oct 15 2009, 04:55 PM']That is the best image I've ever seen drawn up here. It should become your avatar.[/quote] Yeah, I was proud of it myself. You can imagine how I felt when not a single person acknowledged it. Not sure about using it as an avatar though - for one thing, I can't see it working so well when shrunk down to avatar-proportions, and for another thing, I'm not actually a habitual user of IEMs myself, so I'd feel like I was misrepresenting myself. But thanks for the suggestion. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='627107' date='Oct 15 2009, 05:06 PM']Yeah, I was proud of it myself. You can imagine how I felt when not a single person acknowledged it.[/quote] Do we need a facebookesque "bassist X likes this thing" thumbs up? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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