Musicman SUB, Stingray and Sterling.

[Tait]

I've seen lots of musicmans (musicmen? how would you say it? ) on basschat, and the main three i see are Musicman SUBs, Musicman Stingrays and Musicman Sterlings. I realise the sterling doesn't have the control plate and the SUBs are cheaper, but what are the real differences between them? They all look pretty similar to me, all active with humbucker pickups.

[Adam]

dont forget the bongos, IMO thats the one I would get (if i had the money, still saving lol)

[Tait]

Yeah, but the bongo has two humbuckers and a completel different body shape.

Come on, someone must know the differences?

[stingrayfan]

Stingrays = Big bodied and pricey. Nice woods and glossy paint finishes. US built.

Sterlings = Stingrays baby brother. Smaller body but also top notch finish and pricey. US built.

SUBs = Discontinued. Used to be budget version. Cheaper woods and rough finishes but built in the US factory so good quality. Same chunky hardware and pickup. Worth seeking one out. 2nd hand they go for £350+

OLPs = Copies made in China under licence from Ernie Ball/Musicman. Starter instrument.

Hope that helps.

Edited September 22, 2007 by stingrayfan

[Tait]

cheers, yes that helps. I never realised that the Sterling had a smaller body than the stingray.

Do they make similar sounds? or do they sound completely different?

[charic]

I never liked stingrays but i tried a sterling the other day and instantly fell in love with it!

[Lfalex v1.1]

Here goes. Hope I get it right...

[b]Stingray 4[/b]
Available with 2 or 3 band Eq. No coil switching.

[b]Stingray 5[/b]
All have 3 band Eq. Coil switching for series, parallel and single coil operation.

[b]Sterling[/b]
Dinkier body than the 'Ray 4. 3 Band Eq. controls are mounted from rear, not on the scratchplate (as Ray5) or control plate (as Ray 4)
3 band Eq. Coil switching as per Ray 5

[b]S.U.B.[/b]
"Sports utility bass"
As previously mentioned, a cut-price variant, disguising cheaper cuts of wood with solid finishes. Painted finish on necks. Same hardware as more expensive models, so the potential's there.
All 2 band Eq (IIRC) No coil switching, which some prefer.

[b]Cutlass[/b]
Not currently produced. Simply a Stingray 4 with a Graphite Neck. May crop up second hand

[b]Sabre[/b]
Old-school 2 pick-up variant of Ray 4 (HH/HH) Quite rare. No longer in production

[b]Newer additions[/b]
Most Stingray models now available with other pick-up configurations to rival the Bongo (but not the 4 band Eq!)
Piezo Bridges also an option.

[b]General notes[/b]
Bodies mainly from Ash (trans finishes) Alder or Poplar (solid finishes)
Status make Graphite necks of you want your own "home-brew" Cutlass. (which isn't a million miles from a Modulus Flea sig when all's said and done!)
The General consensus is that the 2-Band eq Ray 4 epitomises the "Stingray Sound". The 3 Band isn't quite the same.
I've liked all the Sterlings I've played. They feel more manoeuverable due to their reduced bulk.
I own a 1990 Poplar bodied Fretless 5 (unlined). It's a super instrument.

[bnt]

I know Jim Glennie of James plays a Sterling, and I like the clear yet smooth tone he gets from it - never a problem hearing it at a gig. Here's a bassier example.

[Soulfinger]

Since it hasn´t been mentioned yet - the Sterling also has a slimmer neck than the Stingray (think Jazz vs. Precision).

[Tait]

these are all great points, most of which i didn't know. anything else?

[dub_junkie]

Sterling's got 22 frets - the Stingray 1 less,Sterling headstock is smaller too.the neck is narrower at the nut and I'd say deeper (front to back) than a Stingray.both great necks,for me the sterling wins out though.(but I much prefer J to P necks anyway)

worth noting that even though they're smaller all over,Sterlings will often weigh as much as a Stingray and sometimes more.

there also were SUB Sterlings too.seen a few but not many

edit: 2 pickup Stingrays/Sterlings and SR5's are wired in series
single humbucker Rays are wired in parallel
single p/up Sterling and SR5s can be switched between parallel,single coil and series
SUBs are parallel (I believe)

DJ

Edited September 24, 2007 by dub_junkie

[Russ]

Another difference between the SUBs and the pricier Stingrays and Sterlings is that the SUB body is uncontoured - there's no forearm chamfer on the top bout or belly cut on the back. Depending on how you play, this might make the bass more uncomfortable.

Also, the SUB 5 was a lot more like a proper 5-string version of the 4-string Stingray than the official Stingray 5 is. I actually preferred it in some ways to the official Stingray 5 - the SUB 5 has the same body shape as the SR4, the smaller, round scratchplate and the metal control plate, plus the original Stingray 2-band EQ. Plus, it actually sounds like a 4-string Stingray, just with an extra string. The Stingray 5 is more like a 5-string Sterling, with the switching options, different pickup configuration, etc, and doesn't sound all that much like the 4-string.

[rodl2005]

I dunno why but this is MY experience of trying out a EB MM SUB 5 & a EB MM Stingray 5 in my local shop.
Both theu SAME MARKBASS LMII amp & 4 x 10 cab, same settings on guitars & amp

CHALK & CHEESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The SUB was a nice bass. didn't make me think WOW or anything, but was a nice solid bass.

The 'RAY was ....WOW!!!!! Blew me away- brite, powerful, thick, full. Was one of the only basses in MY 30+ yrs of playing that made me think WOW what a GREAT bass- straight away!!!
I was informed B4 hand that there were same pup, bridge etc in both, But the difference was STAGGERING!!!!!!!!!!
Probly the active elecs. have alot to do with it, possibly the Ash/ poplar of the SUB- I dunno really. BUT It was THAT different!! & I WANTED the SUB to sound as good-coz I didn't have the $$$$ for the 'Ray! But after that........... I HAD 2 have the 'ray!

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

The musicman web ste is:
[url="http://www.ernieball.com/mmonline/"]http://www.ernieball.com/mmonline/[/url]

Not sure I would want to buy a bass from this man though:


Sterling Ball President of Ernie Ball Musicman.

[Russ]

[quote name='rodl2005' post='64604' date='Sep 24 2007, 08:05 AM']I dunno why but this is MY experience of trying out a EB MM SUB 5 & a EB MM Stingray 5 in my local shop.
Both theu SAME MARKBASS LMII amp & 4 x 10 cab, same settings on guitars & amp

CHALK & CHEESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The SUB was a nice bass. didn't make me think WOW or anything, but was a nice solid bass.

The 'RAY was ....WOW!!!!! Blew me away- brite, powerful, thick, full. Was one of the only basses in MY 30+ yrs of playing that made me think WOW what a GREAT bass- straight away!!!
I was informed B4 hand that there were same pup, bridge etc in both, But the difference was STAGGERING!!!!!!!!!!
Probly the active elecs. have alot to do with it, possibly the Ash/ poplar of the SUB- I dunno really. BUT It was THAT different!! & I WANTED the SUB to sound as good-coz I didn't have the $$$$ for the 'Ray! But after that........... I HAD 2 have the 'ray![/quote]

The SUB 5 and Stingray 5 have very different electronic setups, as well as quite different pickups. The SR5 has a 3-band cut/boost active EQ and a coil-tap switch, whereas the SUB 5 has a 2-band, boost-only circuit with no coil tap. The SR5 pickup has an extra phantom coil for humcancelling purposes, and uses ceramic magnets, as opposed to the alnico magnets used in the SUB 5 (4-string Stingrays also use alnico pickups). They do sound quite different. The SUB 5 sounds a lot more like an old, 2-band, 4-string Stingray (some say the classic MM sound), whereas the SR5 has its own distinctive sound.

I'm another one who loves the sound of a Stingray 5, but, appearance-wise, just can't get over that enormous scratchplate... it's hideous! If I only had the £2500 I'd need for the scratchplate-less Anniversary model...

[gilmour]

[quote name='Russ' post='64589' date='Sep 24 2007, 04:23 AM']Also, the SUB 5 was a lot more like a proper 5-string version of the 4-string Stingray than the official Stingray 5 is. I actually preferred it in some ways to the official Stingray 5 - the SUB 5 has the same body shape as the SR4, the smaller, round scratchplate and the metal control plate, plus the original Stingray 2-band EQ. Plus, it actually sounds like a 4-string Stingray, just with an extra string.[/quote]

Yup, I hear that.

There was a really nice example of a SUB 5 for sale here a little while ago, that had been refinished to look more retro, Beatifull example, now owned bu one (I suspect) happy bass chatter! I dunno how to post the link, but it was in the for sale section about three or four weeks ago.

[theosd]

[quote name='gilmour' post='64623' date='Sep 24 2007, 09:07 AM']Yup, I hear that.

There was a really nice example of a SUB 5 for sale here a little while ago, that had been refinished to look more retro, Beatifull example, now owned bu one (I suspect) happy bass chatter! I dunno how to post the link, but it was in the for sale section about three or four weeks ago.[/quote]

I was in the 'anti SR 5 scratchplate camp' til I stumbled across this one on ebay, which I'm collecting tonight. Just WOW. I had to buy it. And I did!!

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Russ' post='64620' date='Sep 24 2007, 08:47 AM']The SUB 5 and Stingray 5 have very different electronic setups, as well as quite different pickups. The SR5 has a 3-band cut/boost active EQ and a coil-tap switch, whereas the SUB 5 has a 2-band, boost-only circuit with no coil tap. The SR5 pickup has an extra phantom coil for humcancelling purposes, and uses ceramic magnets, as opposed to the alnico magnets used in the SUB 5 (4-string Stingrays also use alnico pickups). They do sound quite different. The SUB 5 sounds a lot more like an old, 2-band, 4-string Stingray (some say the classic MM sound), whereas the SR5 has its own distinctive sound.

I'm another one who loves the sound of a Stingray 5, but, appearance-wise, just can't get over that enormous scratchplate... it's hideous! If I only had the £2500 I'd need for the scratchplate-less Anniversary model...[/quote]
[attachment=2451:Stingray_edit.jpg]

That's my all-black SR5 fretless, which doesn't look quite so bad...
It's a 1990, so...
Alnico pole-pieces
No quick access battery cover (just the chromed steel plate)
No phantom coil in the pick-up to hum cancel in single-coil mode (not that I like it much, prefering series or parallel)

Edit- I like theosd's incoming SR5, the blue/pearly combination is nice. I also like the "Carbon Blue Pearl" Scratchplates...
I am sorely tempted to buy a Status (Fretted) neck for my SR5, but if I'm doing that, I might as well buy 5 more tuners so I can switch necks. By then, you're talking about £400+.
For which I could be well on the way to a Warwick Corvette $$ 5 string...

Edited September 24, 2007 by Lfalex v1.1

[Tait]

and flea played the stingray before his modulus didn't he? not the sterling?

[EdwardHimself]

^of course it's a stingray. Just look at the under the bridge video.

[quote name='theosd' post='64624' date='Sep 24 2007, 09:18 AM']I was in the 'anti SR 5 scratchplate camp' til I stumbled across this one on ebay, which I'm collecting tonight. Just WOW. I had to buy it. And I did!![/quote]

personally i quite like it. Infact i like both. However i don't like the fact that the SUB 5 has the standard 4 p/g.

[gilmour]

[quote name='lwtait' post='64834' date='Sep 24 2007, 04:21 PM']and flea played the stingray before his modulus didn't he? not the sterling?[/quote]
yup - playecd one for years

although i have a feeling he recorded parts of blood, sugar, sex, magic with an alembic

not sure how I know that, i may have seen it on a documentary about them

[Waldo]

[quote name='gilmour' post='64941' date='Sep 24 2007, 06:46 PM']yup - playecd one for years

although i have a feeling he recorded parts of blood, sugar, sex, magic with an alembic

not sure how I know that, i may have seen it on a documentary about them[/quote]

Every song on BSSM was recorded with a Wal apart from Funky Monks and The Righteous And The Wicked in which he used a Stingray Five (as the low B is used in this song).

DON'T let anyone tell you any different, I know there are plenty of people (like on the Ernie Ball forums) who insist it's all Stingray but they're wrong (and probably deaf!), Flea has said many many times that's what he used to record BSSM. Curiously enough, he's using a Stingray Five in the Under The Bridge video.

For the record, he used an Alembic Epic to record One Hot Minute, apart from on Aeroplane where he used a Stingray (again, he's said this in interviews). Again, curiously enough he's using a Sterling on the My Friends video though.

He's used Stingrays live pretty much exclusively from BSSM onwards (or possibly even before then, although I do know he used Spectors) until he had a falling out with Ernie Ball becuase they wouldn't make the Stingray his signature model so he then went to Modulus.

I think that's all there is to know about Flea's basses!

[gilmour]

[quote name='Waldo' post='64956' date='Sep 24 2007, 07:02 PM']Every song on BSSM was recorded with a Wal apart from Funky Monks and The Righteous And The Wicked in which he used a Stingray Five (as the low B is used in this song).[/quote]

Yes Wal, that sounds right, I remember the videos - it was called funky monks, the making of BSSM you can probably get it on amazon or something.

It's ironic that loadsa people spend masses of money trying to emulate that Flea tone, buying Stingrays and Gallien Kruger Amps. And that's not what he recorded his most iconic work with.

[rodl2005]

I LIKE the blue pearly pick cover!!!! Am gonna get one for my Trans teal 'ray5 ASAP! After finding on US Ebay for less than the 'other brand' ones that cost as much as an SX bass!!!!!!!!!! Just for a piece of plastic!!!! >:-0

[gilmour]

I've just re-read this thread and now I've got serious GAS for a Stingray 5 (although I still prefer the look of the SUB 5).

I just haven't got the money