Low End Bee Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 "[b]LEB's balsa wood rehearsal drum sticks[/b][i][/i][size=1]TM[/size]" Coming soon to a store near you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='592986' date='Sep 8 2009, 03:53 PM']In fairness to Maplins, it's actually C-weighted.[/quote] Damn, you won't be able to sneak below the radar! I was going to say 'let me know if it's accurate' but I don't know how you're going to know if it is. I need to get a voltmeter onto my measurement mic so I can calibrate it for absolute SPL. [quote name='Happy Jack' post='592987' date='Sep 8 2009, 03:55 PM']The argument that usually comes back at me is: "Yes, but it'll sound completely different once the place is full of people."[/quote] Although the sound does tend to change it's pretty predictable - reverb lessens and it ends up less harsh in the treble as the people and their clothes soak up the sound. If you can get a decent sound in am empty venue then it's usually much better once the punters turn up and remove unwanted echoes. [quote name='Low End Bee' post='593049' date='Sep 8 2009, 04:54 PM']"[b]LEB's balsa wood rehearsal drum sticks[/b][i][/i][size=1]TM[/size]" Coming soon to a store near you.[/quote] We used to rehearse with hot-rods which aren't bad but a little too acid-jazz sounding for a rock band. When I get a moment, I'll add something to my site about how to minimise sonic problems in rehearsals and gigs. We spend so much time worrying about gear but it's all to no avail if we're hamstrung by witless guitarists that are stuck on eleven - maybe presenting them with some printed matter will help, as long as the words are kept short... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Most of the guitarists we use turn up with 18 to 30 watt amps...but will often use an extn cab.. and this is enough. If they turn up with a 4x12 then we are really scraping the barrel and likely not see them again anyway... If a player can't regulate his volume to suit then his ears aren't any good to us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='593087' date='Sep 8 2009, 05:31 PM']When I get a moment, I'll add something to my site about how to minimise sonic problems in rehearsals and gigs. We spend so much time worrying about gear but it's all to no avail if we're hamstrung by witless guitarists that are stuck on eleven - maybe presenting them with some printed matter will help, as long as the words are kept short... Alex[/quote] I can hear the response now Hes talking bollocks or It doesnt apply if your playing a strat or The bass is the problem, it goes right through me or i need a bigger amp or Mark Knopfler doesnt have this problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 [quote name='bumnote' post='593100' date='Sep 8 2009, 05:36 PM']It doesnt apply if your playing a strat[/quote] Nail ---> Head And, of course, it often doesn't! Much of the stuff that I have to think through (or rather, that people like Alex have persuaded me to think through) is specific to low frequencies and really doesn't have much application to a guitarist. The very first time I used the Big One on stage, I put it up against the back wall. "No," says the lead guitarist, "it would be much better over here." He wanted me to lean it against a grand piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 i will add here that on a typical marshall (say a jcm 800) the difference between 5 and 10 on the volume is nothing but power valve saturation/distortion. also the difference between 100 and 50 watts is that typically the 50 is 16% quieter. 40 watts seems to be the perfect wattage for valve guitar amps for both volume and tone. back to how loud is too loud. it all depends on the genre. imagine seeing motorhead at low volume. i saw the wildhearts a year ago and you could hold a convo over their volume. such a boring gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 The following applies for rock bands (not function / wedding bands or jazz ensembles): Rock music is supposed to be LOUD! There are limits to this and excessive loudness will not do anyone any favours but you will not get the necessary power without having sufficient volume If your (rock) drummer isn’t very loud the chances are he isn’t very good and you should get rid of him / her – they have to play at the optimum volume for them to drive the band, which has to be loud enough to be heard over him If you want to sound convincing there is no way round this…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' post='593095' date='Sep 8 2009, 05:33 PM']Most of the guitarists we use turn up with 18 to 30 watt amps...but will often use an extn cab..[/quote] I've taken to lending my guitarist a 6W 1x12" valve combo. It looks and sounds great and is big enough for any gig to less than 500 people. We were once - only once - criticised for being too quiet. The second set was much louder but not harsh or mushy. Edited September 8, 2009 by The Funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='593165' date='Sep 8 2009, 06:46 PM']I've taken to lending my guitarist a 6W 1x12" valve combo.[/quote] There's one of those in our rehearsal space. The guitarist sometimes uses it to prop his Marshall against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 its relative...have you heard of the band who tries to play quietly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 [quote name='mrcrow' post='593191' date='Sep 8 2009, 07:27 PM']its relative...have you heard of the band who tries to play quietly[/quote] yes, and that band is called Garbage. they all went into pods then straight into the desk at one point. with butch's kit behind a plexi screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Although I seem to recall they had a big f**k-off PA to put it all through, and no monitors they had to waste any power amps on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='593236' date='Sep 8 2009, 08:05 PM']Although I seem to recall they had a big f**k-off PA to put it all through, and no monitors they had to waste any power amps on.[/quote] well yes of course they'd have a big PA. they did however sound rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) It makes absolutely perfect sense to play at a moderate volume, to ensure better sound quality and to avoid upsetting the audience, bar-staff etc. It's also a sensible way to protect one's hearing. Less fun, though, than cranking the stacks and splatting the punters against the back wall till they bleed from every orifice. Sigh. Edited September 8, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='593190' date='Sep 8 2009, 07:26 PM']There's one of those in our rehearsal space. The guitarist sometimes uses it to prop his Marshall against. [/quote] It's the [url="http://www.cornfordamps.com/harlequin.htm"]Cornford Harlequin[/url]. Juicy little amp which gives him all the clean/crunch/cranked tones he wants, with not so much output for his talkbox as to cause him to get dizzy. It keeps up well with the DW Mini Kit our drummer gigs with. He tried gigging with a 120W Matamp head and two Marshall 2x12s but it was just too loud. The height of the Matamp/Marshall stack also meant that his cabs bled into his vocal/talkbox mic on small stages, and then his monitor would also sometimes reflect into his cab mic and vocal mic, creating a swirling mush with additional highly directional, piercing icepick sounds coming from his cabs if you happened to be standing in the wrong part of the crowd. For Foolish Earthlings, the 6W Cornford works brilliantly. For our doom metal side project, the Matamp is the ideal head - but different, less directional cabs would be great. I find the Marshall cabs to be piercing straight on (although it's probably not a uniquely Marshall phenomenon). I know SRV had diffusors fitted to the front of his guitar speakers so as to make the sound less directional. They are available pretty cheaply online but I'm not sure how effective they are. If they really work and mean that guitarists can hear themselves while not standing directly in front of their cabs, I think everyone should use them to avoid volume wars. Not sure what you can do with a basher of a drummer except for to stick him on a smaller kit. They mic up so much better than the big ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 The Funk Cornford are popular round here being local....but most guitarists who do the rounds here have some little speciality they have gotten hold off. At one recent gig the gtr had 2 1x12's and an 18watt kettle amp...I am not joking it looked like an old fashioned kettle you put on a gas ring...it was great though and I see that more often than the Cornford now... As for drummers. people just bring what they nead for the gig... they know the score or soon get it if they want to do more stuff. We don't use any Rocknrolla's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='The Funk' post='593527' date='Sep 9 2009, 02:24 AM']I know SRV had diffusors fitted to the front of his guitar speakers so as to make the sound less directional. They are available pretty cheaply online but I'm not sure how effective they are.[/quote] Absolutely. I think he originally started out with gaffa tape crosses stuck on the grille cloth. Later on he stood clear perspex screens in front of the cabs! As for the diffusors - here's one example: [url="http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html"]http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html[/url] Edited September 9, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottReederstoenail Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) .Generally the levels are determined by the drummer if the drums are unmiked(unless hes a jazzer using brushes or the like)My band rehearses with a 2ooWatt Pa pretty much three quarters up.Because im a hit em hard no finesse type drummer:).Our Guitarist has a Marshall Combo that he uses for rehearsals only and thats about half way. Our bassist has a 300W laney World series Head and 1by 15 cab and thats on about three,Im the only one who uses earplugs(although the other two are considering it)I use Elacin plugs they cost me twelve quid and i replace them every so often.It takes out all the sharp frequencies from the crashes/snare etc and means you can rehearse without your ears ringing for ages.12 quid or hearing loss?Difficult one. Edited September 9, 2009 by scottReederstoenail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='593527' date='Sep 9 2009, 02:24 AM']It's the [url="http://www.cornfordamps.com/harlequin.htm"]Cornford Harlequin[/url]. Juicy little amp which gives him all the clean/crunch/cranked tones he wants, with not so much output for his talkbox as to cause him to get dizzy. It keeps up well with the DW Mini Kit our drummer gigs with. He tried gigging with a 120W Matamp head and two Marshall 2x12s but it was just too loud. The height of the Matamp/Marshall stack also meant that his cabs bled into his vocal/talkbox mic on small stages, and then his monitor would also sometimes reflect into his cab mic and vocal mic, creating a swirling mush with additional highly directional, piercing icepick sounds coming from his cabs if you happened to be standing in the wrong part of the crowd. For Foolish Earthlings, the 6W Cornford works brilliantly. For our doom metal side project, the Matamp is the ideal head - but different, less directional cabs would be great. I find the Marshall cabs to be piercing straight on (although it's probably not a uniquely Marshall phenomenon). I know SRV had diffusors fitted to the front of his guitar speakers so as to make the sound less directional. They are available pretty cheaply online but I'm not sure how effective they are. If they really work and mean that guitarists can hear themselves while not standing directly in front of their cabs, I think everyone should use them to avoid volume wars. Not sure what you can do with a basher of a drummer except for to stick him on a smaller kit. They mic up so much better than the big ones![/quote] Sounds like a job for the [url="http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/XFCabs.html"]BFM XF cabs.[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='593527' date='Sep 9 2009, 02:24 AM']He tried gigging with a 120W Matamp head and two Marshall 2x12s but it was just too loud. The height of the Matamp/Marshall stack also meant that his cabs bled into his vocal/talkbox mic on small stages, and then his monitor would also sometimes reflect into his cab mic and vocal mic, creating a swirling mush with additional highly directional, piercing icepick sounds coming from his cabs if you happened to be standing in the wrong part of the crowd.[/quote] That's the main issue with playing too loud IMO...I'd rather compromise by turning down a bit to get a good sound, instead of constantly fighting problems that are (or at least can be) easy to rectify. [quote name='The Funk' post='593527' date='Sep 9 2009, 02:24 AM']For Foolish Earthlings, the 6W Cornford works brilliantly. For our doom metal side project, the Matamp is the ideal head - but different, less directional cabs would be great. I find the Marshall cabs to be piercing straight on (although it's probably not a uniquely Marshall phenomenon). I know SRV had diffusors fitted to the front of his guitar speakers so as to make the sound less directional. They are available pretty cheaply online but I'm not sure how effective they are. If they really work and mean that guitarists can hear themselves while not standing directly in front of their cabs, I think everyone should use them to avoid volume wars. Not sure what you can do with a basher of a drummer except for to stick him on a smaller kit. They mic up so much better than the big ones![/quote] The guitarist in one band I play in uses a Marshall 4x12 and it's more directional than any 1x12 combo that I've ever used as a guitarist - he's taken to leaning it back so it points at his ears, as he could never hear his vocals well enough in the monitor along with all the guitar he had in there, as well as having to turn the amp up louder than it should need to be. The onstage sound has been loads better since we've been able to free the monitor mix of too much guitar to leave space for the vocals. We're no quieter out front, but we can clearly hear everything we need to onstage now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Our drummist is a beast but we do play feral music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Surprised that nobody has mentioned using electronic drum kits as a good way of keeping levels down at rehearsals? Our drummer is very loud on his DW kit, but the electronic kit sounds good in rehearsal, and it saves the three of us having bleeding ears at the end I have often joked about buying him a set of sticks made of sponge though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 I've discussed this with a number of drummers (including the one in my band) and they all say much the same thing - those e-drums are really not the same as real drums, they don't feel right, the sticks don't bounce right, etc. Good for disco stuff and mid-period Phil Collins (B-Bow B-Bow Pow Pow Pow) but that's about it. We use them in my garage for working up new material but never on stage, and if you're not going to play them live then (arguably) you shouldn't rehearse with them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I am sorry... I really don't get this...you are playing with guys that don't reaslise they are too loud ...?????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 [quote name='JTUK' post='594857' date='Sep 10 2009, 04:23 PM']I am sorry... I really don't get this...you are playing with guys that don't reaslise they are too loud ...??????????????????[/quote] Show me a guitarist who plays quietly and I'll show you a bassist in disguise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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