chris_pokkuri Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Just curious as to what is the biggest speaker you can get for bass? I've heard of 18"s but are there bigger ones? Also what would it be like having say 1x20" in a cab or even bigger 1x25", assuming it was all designed well and with good components? Would it be worth it? Why don't people use really big speakers more? Do speakers become 'weaker' as in more prone to damage when they get larger? As I say, i'm just curious and bored in work. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 AccuGroove use a Beyma 21" in their Whappo Grande. It looks impressive but the cab size is too small to make use of its lower register advantage and it's not much use above 400Hz. Precision Devices make a nice neo 21" but it needs a big enclosure and is only useful up to 200Hz - a very good direct radiator subwoofer driver if price is not a concern and LF extension is - way beyond overkill for bass guitar though. If you look at the size of the Big One and bear in mind that's a 15", consider how big a cab will have to be for a comparable 21" - twice as large! Then figure in that every 21" I've seen has an Fs about 10-15Hz lower than that of that 15", so the cabs going to be even larger still to take advantage of that. Not what you want to take onstage with you, especially as you're going to need a 12" or 10" enclosure as well to deal with the midrange. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 There is also this 24" from PD - [url="http://www.precision-devices.com/showdetails.asp?id=17"]24" driver[/url] I've heard it used in many sound systems..... when I say heard..... I mean my solar plexus felt it.... :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 The one from mythbusters that destroyed the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='572751' date='Aug 18 2009, 11:48 AM']There is also this 24" from PD - [url="http://www.precision-devices.com/showdetails.asp?id=17"]24" driver[/url][/quote] Another mean driver! Note that it weighs 80lbs on its own... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 This one as well ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 There was a dude with some old 30" rickenbacker speakers on another bass forum, really old, and rated at 60w. [url="http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=388780"]http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopi...10&t=388780[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Clarion used to make a 32" sub called the thunderdome. Images of it are pretty scarce though. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='572757' date='Aug 18 2009, 11:55 AM']Another mean driver! Note that it weighs 80lbs on its own... Alex[/quote] Alex, Just as a bit of fun, what size box are you talking for that driver, roughly? That and a Big Baby would be pretty funky IMO! Cheers, JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bythesea Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Alien' post='572946' date='Aug 18 2009, 02:45 PM']Clarion used to make a 32" sub called the thunderdome. Images of it are pretty scarce though.[/quote] [url="http://www.shakespeariencecaraudio.com/htmsite/htmsite/images/InstallPics/32probeyard.jpg"]this one[/url]? I see why he hasn't put it in a cab, there wouldn't be any room for the passengers... I'll get me coat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 More silliness: [url="http://www.eminent-tech.com/RWbrochure.htm"]http://www.eminent-tech.com/RWbrochure.htm[/url] Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bythesea Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 You are in the wrong business Alex - home theatre is where it's at... [url="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-9866428-47.html"]$6 million home theatre[/url] [url="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-10303565-47.html"]$1 million speaker[/url] (you need two for stereo and each contains 40 15" drivers!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozbass Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='chris_pokkuri' post='572734' date='Aug 18 2009, 11:27 AM']Why don't people use really big speakers more?[/quote] I'd guess this is really a weight and convenience issue - big speakers seems to imply (generally) large cabinets. In some ways I mourn the passing of the super-size bass cab. As a younger man I would think nothing of hoiking a folded horn (rear firing 18" Cerwin Vega, front firing 12" and tweeters) around to gigs that frequently involved stairs. This thing was ex Sad Cafe I think - it was around 4 feet tall and weighed around 130lbs. It sounded absolutely immense and could genuinely interfere with audience breathing at about 15-20 feet (especially if it was sat on a 3-4 foot high stage). Happy days and one of the better sounding cabs I had in a fairly long career (a career that is now over). I use a ul112 these days - more befitting my age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) [quote name='lozbass' post='573171' date='Aug 18 2009, 04:53 PM']I'd guess this is really a weight and convenience issue - big speakers seems to imply (generally) large cabinets. In some ways I mourn the passing of the super-size bass cab. As a younger man I would think nothing of hoiking a folded horn (rear firing 18" Cerwin Vega, front firing 12" and tweeters) around to gigs that frequently involved stairs.[/quote] That's a legendary behemoth - can't imagine trying to move that singlehandedly! Here's one: [url="http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=CERWINVEGAB36"]http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=CERWINVEGAB36[/url] It's not entirely a weight and convenience issue though. As I wasn't born then I'm too up on the specs but I believe that you'd be lucky to get 3mm Xmax from an 18" of that era, which means that the 15" in my Big One (see avatar over there <----)can move more air than a pair of B-36s. Factor in higher thermal power handling and cheap high power amplification and a modern relatively compact cab of suitable design can get an equally huge sound as the '70s behemoth. But that kind of relatively compact cab is still a lot bigger than a 1x12"! Alex Edited August 18, 2009 by alexclaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 By the power of google, if it's ex-Sad Café then I probably pre-date it by a few years. The Xmax comment still stands though! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I might be wrong (I often am), but didn't the original Quad electrostatic speakers consist of one big e/s membrane with an area somewhat larger than even a 24" diameter driver? You can shoot me down now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='henry norton' post='573212' date='Aug 18 2009, 05:20 PM']I might be wrong (I often am), but didn't the original Quad electrostatic speakers consist of one big e/s membrane with an area somewhat larger than even a 24" diameter driver? You can shoot me down now [/quote] All electrostatic speakers are huge - yet despite their size they usually need an additional subwoofer to add lows because the maximum membrane excursion is so tiny. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='573044' date='Aug 18 2009, 03:32 PM']More silliness: [url="http://www.eminent-tech.com/RWbrochure.htm"]http://www.eminent-tech.com/RWbrochure.htm[/url][/quote] And from that link, the plot of "Measured frequency response": Methinks "Measured frequency response" is a touch misleading. What does about 98dB SPL [b]at 0Hz[/b] sound like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_pokkuri Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='lozbass' post='573171' date='Aug 18 2009, 04:53 PM']could genuinely interfere with audience breathing at about 15-20 feet (especially if it was sat on a 3-4 foot high stage).[/quote] The Nazis thought this was a good idea and developed some weapons called Sound Cannons. "The cannon consisted of large parabaloid reflectors, the final version of which had a diameter over 3m. The "dishes" were connected to a chamber composed of several sub-units firing tubes. The function of these tubes was to allow an admixture of methane and oxygen into the combustion chamber, where the two gases were ignited in a cyclical, continuous explosion. The length of the firing chamber itself was exactly a quarter of the wavelength of the sound waves produced by the on-going explosions. Each explosion initiated the next by producing a reflected, high-intensity shockwave, and so creating a very high amplitude sound beam. This high and strong note of unbearable intensity was emitted at pressures in excess of 1,000 milibars about 50m away. This level of pressure is above the limits that man can endure. At such a range, half a minute of exposure would be enough to be lethal. At longer ranges (about 229m), the effect would be excruciating and a soldier would be incapacitated for some considerable time afterwards." Source: [url="http://www.greyfalcon.us/restored/AN%20INVENTORY%20OF%20NAZI%20SECRET%20WEAPONS.htm"]http://www.greyfalcon.us/restored/AN%20INV...T%20WEAPONS.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='chris_pokkuri' post='573470' date='Aug 18 2009, 08:57 PM']The Nazis thought this was a good idea and developed some weapons called Sound Cannons. "The cannon consisted of large parabaloid reflectors, the final version of which had a diameter over 3m. The "dishes" were connected to a chamber composed of several sub-units firing tubes. The function of these tubes was to allow an admixture of methane and oxygen into the combustion chamber, where the two gases were ignited in a cyclical, continuous explosion. The length of the firing chamber itself was exactly a quarter of the wavelength of the sound waves produced by the on-going explosions. Each explosion initiated the next by producing a reflected, high-intensity shockwave, and so creating a very high amplitude sound beam. This high and strong note of unbearable intensity was emitted at pressures in excess of 1,000 milibars about 50m away. This level of pressure is above the limits that man can endure. At such a range, half a minute of exposure would be enough to be lethal. At longer ranges (about 229m), the effect would be excruciating and a soldier would be incapacitated for some considerable time afterwards." Source: [url="http://www.greyfalcon.us/restored/AN%20INVENTORY%20OF%20NAZI%20SECRET%20WEAPONS.htm"]http://www.greyfalcon.us/restored/AN%20INV...T%20WEAPONS.htm[/url][/quote] Doom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='573485' date='Aug 18 2009, 09:07 PM']Doom.[/quote] Full on Doom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='573485' date='Aug 18 2009, 09:07 PM']Doom.[/quote] I have a feeling this thread is going to turn into a brown noise conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ill have one nazi style sound cannon, a 8x10 for the mids, a wall of tweeters, a 10 string bass and the skills of dood plz what do you mean how bigs the gig? Its for home practice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 actually what impedance is the sound cannon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozbass Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='573205' date='Aug 18 2009, 05:17 PM']That's a legendary behemoth - can't imagine trying to move that singlehandedly! Here's one: [url="http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=CERWINVEGAB36"]http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=CERWINVEGAB36[/url][/quote] Thanks Alex - lovely to see one of these again (if not carry one). I remember the B36 well and with great fondness. The beast I had was of very similar design but was not a Cerwin branded cab - it was a folded bin with double ports (I can't remember the technical description a W- folded horn?) The 12 was front firing and back to back with the 18. It was just immense. I take your point on the Xmax (and I'm actually a big fan of lightweight efficient designs these days) but there was something about the sheer imposing size of the cab that made it a bit special - the embodiment of rock'n'roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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