urb Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='531454' date='Jul 3 2009, 10:28 AM']This topic comes up all the time when I visit watch forums. So many people say 'why spend a few grand on an automatic watch when a £10 quartz keeps better time?' Half the time you can't even see my watch because it is under a cuff or something. I don't care if nobody notices, I didn't buy it for anyone else - but it is something I can be proud of, something that serves as a reminder of a milestone in my life and a piece of engineering which I am fascinated by, but 99% of the people I meet would be getting a straight jacket ready. With 'custom' basses the same sort of thing is true - the pleasure comes from playing and owning a comfortable, quality instrument made often specifically for you, the way you like by someone you feel understands your approach and unique style - you are more than a customer.[/quote] exactly.... nuff said really (though obviously there will be another "are they worth it thread started in a couple of months, ) M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Tait' post='531544' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:50 AM']i disagree. usually to be happy with something you have, you have to go through lots of things that you don't like to get to the one that makes you happy. you still criticise the ones that didn't make you happy, because if there was nothing to criticise about them, they would've made you happy. or back to the topic of this thread, if i had £3000, i'd be happier with that £3000 than with a boutique bass, and would still think it's ludicrous to spend that much on a bass, probably even more so when i discover all the other things i could buy that would make me much happier than a single bass. think how many PS3 games and visits to Alton Towers etc. £3000 would buy. i'd probably be even more critical, as the £3000 would back up my opinion that boutique basses aren't worth it. my point is, i'd be happy with the £3000, and still criticise boutique basses.[/quote] I would much rather have my bass than £3000 of PS3 games or Alton Towers - to me THAT is a waste of money. Not having a dig just saying that it really is down to what the individual is into. I see money 'wasted' all the time in work and personal situations. Why do people fly first class rather than economy? Why do people pay loads of money for expensive wine? Worth is down to a lot of points as has been said. What made me laugh is when I thought that should we ever have a real catastrophe such as a major war or bombing people would end up burning their boutique basses as firewood if that was all they had to keep warm Without electricity all basses are pretty worthless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='531551' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:56 AM']I think he meant in the context of starting a topic about it on a forum as opposed to just thinking it to yourself. I am not having a go, you understand, but the idea resonates with me, at least.[/quote] fair enough, i agree, if you're content with what you've got, you don't tend to moan about other people's things unless asked first. [quote name='OldGit' post='531566' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:05 PM']Oh Well that counts me out then Scrub all I've said[/quote] i've been thinking all along surely your shuker P bass didn't cost much more than £1600ish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='birdy' post='531573' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:10 PM']Without electricity all basses are pretty worthless?[/quote] Not all ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='531578' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:14 PM']Not all ... [/quote] That will be why they are so expensive then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='birdy' post='531582' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:15 PM']That will be why they are so expensive then [/quote] That would keep the fire going for ages *rubs hands* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Tait' post='531574' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:12 PM']fair enough, i agree, if you're content with what you've got, you don't tend to moan about other people's things unless asked first.[/quote] ...which is why you raised the topic and we are able to have an interesting thread without it being locked (can't find the TB one now!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='thodrik' post='531314' date='Jul 3 2009, 02:11 AM']For me, if you are too frightened to gig with your bass for fear that something might happen to it, you have probably got a boutique bass.[/quote] To me, if that's the case you have the wrong bass. They're made for playing, not as ornaments (possibly?).. I fell in love with an Overwater fretless about 4 years ago, but I just wasn't playing any electric gigs so it would have been a gorgeous piece of furniture. Now I have the gigs again I justified the purchase and it gets used. I'm not saying you have to be gigging to be worth getting that kind of thing, more that I'm useless when it comes to practicing at thome, so it would have just sat there looking pretty! [quote name='Legion' post='531420' date='Jul 3 2009, 09:51 AM']All the boutique basses I've laid my hands on have exuded quality and felt great to play. I actually feel embarrassed by that as I think I don't live up to the basses ability, hence I'm going to blend in with a P bass from now on [/quote] If you feel like that, you could use the initial feelings of unworthiness to knuckle down and improve. [quote name='Rich' post='531495' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:12 AM']If you spend £300 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you. If you spend £1500 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you. If you spend £3000 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you. etc.[/quote] +3! [quote name='Tait' post='531544' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:50 AM']i disagree. usually to be happy with something you have, you have to go through lots of things that you don't like to get to the one that makes you happy. you still criticise the ones that didn't make you happy, because if there was nothing to criticise about them, they would've made you happy. or back to the topic of this thread, if i had £3000, i'd be happier with that £3000 than with a boutique bass, and would still think it's ludicrous to spend that much on a bass, probably even more so when i discover all the other things i could buy that would make me much happier than a single bass. think how many PS3 games and visits to Alton Towers etc. £3000 would buy. i'd probably be even more critical, as the £3000 would back up my opinion that boutique basses aren't worth it. my point is, i'd be happy with the £3000, and still criticise boutique basses.[/quote] Money is abstract stuff and has no actual value in itself, only what you can swap it for. If I was really into gaming I'd go for games (3 grand is only about 60 new games isn't it?) and if I was seriously into new cars 3 grand wouldn't even come close! I played the same beaten up, DIY-customised bass for years, often trying 'better' basses but not finding anything which worked so well for me that it would justify the expense. I would, for the most part over those years, say the same as you, Tait. Then I played a bass that cost lots [u]and[/u] blew my head off.. Road To Damascus moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 As I mentioned last time this came up (and to +1 Alex's comment) .. if you think boutique basses are expensive, try saxophones ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='BarnacleBob' post='531476' date='Jul 3 2009, 10:50 AM']Pete raises a good point. what if u order a custom bass and u dont like it? Expecially if u have had input in the build process?[/quote] IME people who are unhappy with their custom-made basses have over-specified them and got too far into the fine details that should be left up to the luthier who ought to have far more experience than you when it comes to knowing what will make the right bass for a given customer. They specify woods, based on examples that may well have been grown in a completely different continent to the stock their luthier is using, and electronics and pickups based on word of mouth and sound clips off the web rather than actual first hand playing experience. As a player pick what you know about. The look, the playability and how you want it to sound. It's up to the luthier to then turn that into the right bass for you, and a good one will be able to guide you in the right direction. You should know what you want the bass to sound like and so the luthier will be able to pick the right woods and pickups that will give you the correct end result. If you want fancy wood finshes remember that there are plenty of different timbers that will give the same look and if for instance you want a flame or quilt top it doesn't have to be maple - there are plenty of other woods which will look the same but may be far more appropriate for the sound of the bass. Don't push your luthier in building an instrument they don't feel comfortable with. There's plenty of luthiers to choose from - over 10 first class ones building basses in the UK alone. Someone will be willing to build what you want, although I think you should decide based on what they've made previously that matches what you want. And once you start looking world-wide (a much easier proposition nowadays) someone somewhere will already be building something that is pretty close to your dream bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='531645' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:25 PM']IME people who are unhappy with their custom-made basses have over-specified them and got too far into the fine details that should be left up to the luthier who ought to have far more experience than you when it comes to knowing what will make the right bass for a given customer. They specify woods, based on examples that may well have been grown in a completely different continent to the stock their luthier is using, and electronics and pickups based on word of mouth and sound clips off the web rather than actual first hand playing experience. As a player pick what you know about. The look, the playability and how you want it to sound. It's up to the luthier to then turn that into the right bass for you, and a good one will be able to guide you in the right direction. You should know what you want the bass to sound like and so the luthier will be able to pick the right woods and pickups that will give you the correct end result. If you want fancy wood finshes remember that there are plenty of different timbers that will give the same look and if for instance you want a flame or quilt top it doesn't have to be maple - there are plenty of other woods which will look the same but may be far more appropriate for the sound of the bass. Don't push your luthier in building an instrument they don't feel comfortable with. There's plenty of luthiers to choose from - over 10 first class ones building basses in the UK alone. Someone will be willing to build what you want, although I think you should decide based on what they've made previously that matches what you want. And once you start looking world-wide (a much easier proposition nowadays) someone somewhere will already be building something that is pretty close to your dream bass.[/quote] Absoloutely +1 My error was thinking I wanted something totally diferent in sound to the one he'd already built but I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='531594' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:30 PM']...which is why you raised the topic and we are able to have an interesting thread without it being locked (can't find the TB one now!) [/quote] haha although i'd love to take credit, i didn't raise the subject. i replied to someone else's post on the BGM thread about boutique basses, then pete academy started this thread. [quote name='hubrad' post='531600' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:40 PM']Money is abstract stuff and has no actual value in itself, only what you can swap it for. If I was really into gaming I'd go for games (3 grand is only about 60 new games isn't it?) and if I was seriously into new cars 3 grand wouldn't even come close![/quote] i'm not particularly into gaming, i'm way more into bass playing, but my point was that 60 games would give me way more enjoyment than a £3000 bass. as would 85 visits to alton towers, or going to the cinema 600 times with friends etc. when i think about it like that, all the different things i could do with £3000, i personally think its a ridiculous amount to spend on a bass. [quote name='hubrad' post='531600' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:40 PM']I played the same beaten up, DIY-customised bass for years, often trying 'better' basses but not finding anything which worked so well for me that it would justify the expense. I would, for the most part over those years, say the same as you, Tait. Then I played a bass that cost lots [u]and[/u] blew my head off.. Road To Damascus moment. [/quote] this links to my last point. lets say this DIY bass you're perfectly content with cost a grand, and theres a boutique bass sat next to it costing 3 grand. you get given the grand back, as well as 2 more grand, and you've got to choose which bass you're going to buy. any spare cash can be kept. now, you can spend a grand getting your old, perfectly good bass back, then spend the 2 grand on other enjoyable things, such as -using my examples from earlier- going to the cinemas, buying videogames or going to alton towers. or you can spend it all on a bass thats better, but is still after all only a bass, and it might blow you away, but the audience isn't going to notice the difference in sound, you're going to notice the difference in feel, build quality etc, but what does that matter when you've been so happy with your DIY bass, really? its not like you've had a problem with the DIY bass. i'm not saying that you'd have to be stupid to go for the boutique bass, if you think its worth that extra 2 grand then thats fine, but i just don't think i could go for the boutique bass if theres a perfectly good bass for 2 grand less, when i think of all the things i could spend the 2 grand on. i hope that makes sense, i think i may have rambled a bit there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I think we basically all agree on this.. some of us would do the 1 grand bass + 2 grand other stuff, some of us would do the 3 grand bass. It depends on the person and the bass. The only right and wrong thing is that if you are happy with a particular instrument it is good by definition. Doesn't matter what it costs, how it looks or what. Suits you sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='531566' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:05 PM']Oh Well that counts me out then Scrub all I've said[/quote] Me too. Two 'boutique' basses in most people's eyes and still under the £2k limit! [quote name='Tait' post='531544' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:50 AM']or back to the topic of this thread, if i had £3000, i'd be happier with that £3000 than with a boutique bass...[/quote] If all the money in the world you had, or a significant portion of it, was £3000 then I bet you would feel happier with £3000 than a boutique bass. But if you had tons of £3000 lots of money in different bank accounts, stocks, shares, property, then I suspect you'd feel a lot different about spending £3000 on a bass. Look around and see how many flash cars people are driving - and consider before the recession how many had been bought on credit. Not only would those interest payments cost more than a boutique bass, by the time you've finished paying for the car the value it would have lost through depreciation would be enough to buy a whole host of nice instruments! Also bear in mind that if you spend £3k on a secondhand instrument, like a nice Alembic, you get to own it for as long as you like, use it as much as you want, and then if you bore of it you can sell it for what you paid or probably more. So is it spending the money or is it investing in a stable and possibly appreciating asset? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='531645' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:25 PM']IME people who are unhappy with their custom-made basses have over-specified them and got too far into the fine details that should be left up to the luthier who ought to have far more experience than you when it comes to knowing what will make the right bass for a given customer. They specify woods, based on examples that may well have been grown in a completely different continent to the stock their luthier is using, and electronics and pickups based on word of mouth and sound clips off the web rather than actual first hand playing experience. As a player pick what you know about. The look, the playability and how you want it to sound. It's up to the luthier to then turn that into the right bass for you, and a good one will be able to guide you in the right direction. You should know what you want the bass to sound like and so the luthier will be able to pick the right woods and pickups that will give you the correct end result. If you want fancy wood finshes remember that there are plenty of different timbers that will give the same look and if for instance you want a flame or quilt top it doesn't have to be maple - there are plenty of other woods which will look the same but may be far more appropriate for the sound of the bass. Don't push your luthier in building an instrument they don't feel comfortable with. There's plenty of luthiers to choose from - over 10 first class ones building basses in the UK alone. Someone will be willing to build what you want, although I think you should decide based on what they've made previously that matches what you want. And once you start looking world-wide (a much easier proposition nowadays) someone somewhere will already be building something that is pretty close to your dream bass.[/quote] It took me about three years to make all the decisions on what I wanted in a custom bass. It was a scarily deep process, not dissimilar to what I got into with the cabs, and then I had to find the right man to build it, who brought his own ideas in terms of aesthetics and form that really completed the concept perfectly. The end result blew me away - it sounded just like I had hoped but even better. However it took SO long ascertain what I wanted, string spacing at both ends, neck profile, wood combinations, fret material and size, scale length, pickups and positioning, even the details of exactly how the knobs are arranged, that it amazes me when I see people write "I fancy a custom bass, what should I get?" Have they any idea what they're getting themselves into?!! I guess I came at it from the opposite direction to most players - I worked out what I needed to get the sound and playablility I wanted and then found Robbie McDade who could turn that into an aesthetically pleasing reality. I know I bang on about it but all you people going custom and not trying 36" scale, chambered bodies, Q-tuners and passive electronics are missing out! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Rich' post='531495' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:12 AM']If you spend £300 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you. If you spend £1500 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you. If you spend £3000 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you. etc.[/quote] +1000. Great post. BTW Alex, I've tried 36" scale several times, and I don't think it's for me. I tend to go the other way. Everything else sounds great though! Edited July 3, 2009 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I waited around three years before I ordered my first Sei, though I'd just got my custom fretless and was very happy with it, and during that time I tried loads of amazing basses both boutique and stock models, and this gave me loads of info on the different qualities I wanted from my Single Cut. The whole process of deciding what I wanted and the subsiquent wait time and my increased knowledge of wood combinations, different pups and circuit all helped me decide alot faster and with increased confidence how I wanted my Sei Jazz to be, I also trusted Martin's decisions and creative instincts more and I couldn't be happier with the result. Patience is the key, it also helps you save up for these things which I did for both Seis, no worries. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bythesea Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='hubrad' post='531600' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:40 PM']If you feel like that, you could use the initial feelings of unworthiness to knuckle down and improve. [/quote] +1 I have recently come back to playing bass. I can afford better instruments than I used to be able to years ago so have bought an Overwater. It's amazing. I'm not - I'm crap. But having this bass is making me do something about it, and trying to get somewhere. Would a cheaper bass have done this? Probably not (for me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_da_man Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Seeing as my comment sparked this thread I'll just say this - Some people who have said boutique basses are worth the money, others would say are brand snobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='531986' date='Jul 3 2009, 08:25 PM']I waited around three years before I ordered my first Sei, though I'd just got my custom fretless and was very happy with it, and during that time I tried loads of amazing basses both boutique and stock models, and this gave me loads of info on the different qualities I wanted from my Single Cut. The whole process of deciding what I wanted and the subsiquent wait time and my increased knowledge of wood combinations, different pups and circuit all helped me decide alot faster and with increased confidence how I wanted my Sei Jazz to be, I also trusted Martin's decisions and creative instincts more and I couldn't be happier with the result. Patience is the key, it also helps you save up for these things which I did for both Seis, no worries. M[/quote] I think we have similar tastes bass wise Mike - of all the BCers basses I have played yours is up there as one of the best playing, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Stan_da_man' post='532016' date='Jul 3 2009, 08:53 PM']Seeing as my comment sparked this thread I'll just say this - Some people who have said boutique basses are worth the money, others would say are brand snobs.[/quote] Yup. I'm a brand snob .. I have Shuker, Stagg and SX (and Fender too) all are very good at what they do - for the prices I paid. Edited July 3, 2009 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phsycoandy Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='531645' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:25 PM']IME people who are unhappy with their custom-made basses have over-specified them and got too far into the fine details that should be left up to the luthier who ought to have far more experience than you when it comes to knowing what will make the right bass for a given customer. They specify woods, based on examples that may well have been grown in a completely different continent to the stock their luthier is using, and electronics and pickups based on word of mouth and sound clips off the web rather than actual first hand playing experience. As a player pick what you know about. The look, the playability and how you want it to sound. It's up to the luthier to then turn that into the right bass for you, and a good one will be able to guide you in the right direction. You should know what you want the bass to sound like and so the luthier will be able to pick the right woods and pickups that will give you the correct end result. If you want fancy wood finshes remember that there are plenty of different timbers that will give the same look and if for instance you want a flame or quilt top it doesn't have to be maple - there are plenty of other woods which will look the same but may be far more appropriate for the sound of the bass. Don't push your luthier in building an instrument they don't feel comfortable with. There's plenty of luthiers to choose from - over 10 first class ones building basses in the UK alone. Someone will be willing to build what you want, although I think you should decide based on what they've made previously that matches what you want. And once you start looking world-wide (a much easier proposition nowadays) someone somewhere will already be building something that is pretty close to your dream bass.[/quote] I picked my GB Spitfire up very reasonably from Bernie and no where near some of the £'s quoted here from a chance call to Bernie. It wasnt built for me or over specced by me, but by G@d its all I would have chosen and would wish for. GBs are IMHO and a lot of others a bit special and set apart from other luthiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rslaing Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Yes, the old adage of "you only get what you pay for" for is very true, and only people who will dispute this are the people who don't own boutique basses. I own loads of basses, and the best ones are "boutique". End of........... EDIT:- I am talking mainly about any instrument that isn't a product of a non musician on an assembly line that couldn't give a sh*t about what falls off the conveyor belt at the end of their shift Edited July 3, 2009 by rslaing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I think id be deciding for far too long. My problem, well actually, my preference, is simplicity. I like classic, well constructed, average weight, nice vintage body style, 4 or 5 string bass guitars. Basically the rest of the extras, the crazy hardware, the ultra tiny slim neck and body, even some active basses (not all) seems to detract from what I always wanted. Thats probably because when I was younger, all my bass heroes played Jazz/Precision/Stingray. I WOULD...very much like to get a high end Sadowsky. Now that would probably impress me, a hell of a lot. A bass has to look as cool as hell when you spend a lot on it. Vintage, classic body shapes, are indeed where my bass heart lies. The Shuker basses look cool...I have to admit. Im inbetween on this subject until I get a Sadowsky Or....I try an Alleva Coppolo. Edited July 3, 2009 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='532017' date='Jul 3 2009, 08:54 PM']I think we have similar tastes bass wise Mike - of all the BCers basses I have played yours is up there as one of the best playing, IMO[/quote] +1 (it's the only BCers bass I have played but it certainly floats my boat. Awesome.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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