dabootsy Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I was thinking the other day (not something I do very often) we all try to get great tone from great basses and great amplification and try to use the best pedals that have true bypass and use certain speaker configurations to get just the sound we want. Then when we have it, it goes through a lead into pa that can be of totally different speaker sizes and through effects that are not true bypass into maybe a one by 12 and a 1 by 15 and a horn when the sound we may like is coming from a 4 by 10 and it never sounds the same out front of the pa as it does coming out of the amp My point is whats the point Do you think I should just give up thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='dabootsy' post='520971' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:22 PM']I was thinking the other day (not something I do very often) we all try to get great tone from great basses and great amplification and try to use the best pedals that have true bypass and use certain speaker configurations to get just the sound we want. Then when we have it, it goes through a lead into pa that can be of totally different speaker sizes and through effects that are not true bypass into maybe a one by 12 and a 1 by 15 and a horn when the sound we may like is coming from a 4 by 10 and it never sounds the same out front of the pa as it does coming out of the amp My point is whats the point Do you think I should just give up thinking?[/quote] I agree, I have a stupid amount of basses and I'm about to drop a load on a new amp (the 3rd in a year) but I'm not very good at the bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 We should all give up and become Guitards instead and not worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='dabootsy' post='520971' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:22 PM']I was thinking the other day (not something I do very often) we all try to get great tone from great basses and great amplification and try to use the best pedals that have true bypass and use certain speaker configurations to get just the sound we want. Then when we have it, it goes through a lead into pa that can be of totally different speaker sizes and through effects that are not true bypass into maybe a one by 12 and a 1 by 15 and a horn when the sound we may like is coming from a 4 by 10 and it never sounds the same out front of the pa as it does coming out of the amp My point is whats the point Do you think I should just give up thinking?[/quote] Well don't ya go thinkin', and thinkin', and thinkin' and thinkin' so much 'till you're stranded behind Don't ya go thinkin', and thinkin', and thinkin', and thinkin' so much 'till you're Losin' your mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Don't stress it. If your stage sound is right for you then you can stop worrying and get on with the show. The house sound is the responsibility of the sound guy. If people say it's crap then find another one who knows what they're doing, they're ten a penny anyway. (wannabe musicians the lot of them. should take the time and effort to learn to make music, them and the MC Discmasterjockeys out there. what's clever about playing a record? my granny can do that. [size=1]grumble mutter mutter[/size].) Personaly I don't bother with spending time/money on the stage sound. As long as I can hear what I'm playing then I'm happy as larry knowing that all the trouser flappery is happening 10 feet in front of me, but then again our sound guy is a bassist and knows what kinda noise i'm after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='dabootsy' post='520971' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:22 PM']....My point is whats the point Do you think I should just give up thinking?....[/quote] Yeah... we should only be doing 10% thinking and 90% playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='dabootsy' post='520971' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:22 PM']...My point is whats the point Do you think I should just give up thinking?[/quote] IMO Yes & No. You are correct that in a large P.A. situation your bass amp is just on stage monitoring, so just enjoy it! We pay lots of dough for that rig. Just make sure your raw bass sound going into the D.I. is the best it can be. Obviously a gig where the bass is non-P.A. supported and all the sound is coming from your rig then that's best for everyone to enjoy your gear but then you get into mechanical coupling, acoustic coupling and sound dispertion issues! Cheers, JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafbass02 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I know. This fact totally blows!! I just try to go for a good sound that I can hear to inspire good playing onstage and use a preamp pedal to make sure that at least some tone shaping has gone on before the pa. Then I stop thinking lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Yeah, we should give up 99 times out of 100, but for that one gig where the PA is massive, the crowd is pumping, the choons be flowing. Thats worth it for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongo Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Why not get a DI box that has some EQ to it like the BassBone? Failing that, a head that puts DI signal post-EQ? But the whole idea does suck...Guitarists get mic'd yet we get DI well I dunno...COmpanies could think "Hey! Why not allow them their tone to come through the PA?" But then...the soundguy could hate your sound and EQ it his end so really, it's pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgie Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Get a rig that can handle the gig without PA support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongo Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='Higgie' post='521315' date='Jun 22 2009, 11:43 PM']Get a rig that can handle the gig without PA support [/quote] At your local maybe! Have a wall of 4x10's and watch the bodies drop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I noticed this weekend that my same rig with my same bass with the same strings on it somehow sounded incoherent and rubbish at rehearsal on Sunday despite sounding great the week before in the same room. Turned out the guitarist had tried a different sound. It's much like the way our drummer's ride cymbal always seems to drown out all vocals effortlessly. Solution: Slap guitar player, tell drummer he needs a new ride cymbal. Bass expenditure: Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 [quote name='Kongo' post='521312' date='Jun 22 2009, 11:35 PM']Why not get a DI box that has some EQ to it like the BassBone? Failing that, a head that puts DI signal post-EQ? But the whole idea does suck...Guitarists get mic'd yet we get DI well I dunno...COmpanies could think "Hey! Why not allow them their tone to come through the PA?" But then...the soundguy could hate your sound and EQ it his end so really, it's pointless.[/quote] Indeed - I have the Sadowsky D.I. pedal and it works well in being an 'adjustable' D.I. The thing with live sound is that even the Guitards will more than likely be gated/eq'd/compressed/limited to oblivion anyway so you are always at the sound persons mercy. This is where the Mate with a bit of sound nouse comes in handy - he/she can stand near to the soundman and speak for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='dabootsy' post='520971' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:22 PM']...into maybe a one by 12 and a 1 by 15 and a horn when the sound we may like is coming from a 4 by 10 and it never sounds the same out front of the pa as it does coming out of the amp...[/quote] Unless you seriously rely on cab colouration for your tone a good (NB: GOOD) PA will completely spank most bass rigs on producing a nice big fat clear bass sound. And when I say good I don't mean some of those plastic active speakers, I mean proper PA with decent tops and real subwoofers. I think it's a good move to consider what you're going to be using your cabs for - if you generally have PA support then it makes sense to have a cab that produces a similar tone to that of the PA, unless you plan to always mic your cab. Just as you should never only consider the tone of your bass and amp in isolation but should consider how it will work in your musical context you should also always consider how your gear will work on your typical gigs. I would also bear in mind that many PAs are too weedy to handle bass guitar, in which case it's best to bring a bigger bass rig and just stick the rest of the band through the PA (knock out the deeper lows on the kick and rely on the 80Hz thump to get it heard). Demand too much bottom from any speaker and you mess up the midrange and treble through increased distortion - although some bassists like this colouration from their cab I guarantee that no-one likes it from a PA speaker. Alex Edited June 23, 2009 by alexclaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Well, guess why I use cheap cabs and have my DI [i]post[/i]-EQ? Yep, the audience hears the PA, so your stage rig is basically just a monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHUFC BASS Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='520975' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:24 PM']We should all give up and become Guitards instead and not worry about it. [/quote] What happens if you play guitar AND bass though ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongo Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 [quote name='jonthebass' post='521451' date='Jun 23 2009, 09:28 AM']Indeed - I have the Sadowsky D.I. pedal and it works well in being an 'adjustable' D.I. The thing with live sound is that even the Guitards will more than likely be gated/eq'd/compressed/limited to oblivion anyway so you are always at the sound persons mercy. This is where the Mate with a bit of sound nouse comes in handy - he/she can stand near to the soundman and speak for you![/quote] That'd be me standing there...and then fighting with the sound man! Some post "NO sound requests" and some don't but will tell you anyways. Basically, they set you up the same. If your a metal band, then guitars and drums up, bass down...My band doesn't get along with this as metal we may be but we use ALL instruments to create our sound. The Arusha Accord had this issue at Nottingham Rock City as well as after the 1st and 2nd song they just souted "More bass guitar at the front"...But he didn't get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 [quote name='dabootsy' post='520971' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:22 PM']I was thinking the other day (not something I do very often) we all try to get great tone from great basses and great amplification and try to use the best pedals that have true bypass and use certain speaker configurations to get just the sound we want. Then when we have it, it goes through a lead into pa that can be of totally different speaker sizes and through effects that are not true bypass into maybe a one by 12 and a 1 by 15 and a horn when the sound we may like is coming from a 4 by 10 and it never sounds the same out front of the pa as it does coming out of the amp My point is whats the point Do you think I should just give up thinking?[/quote] Never give up thinking! Live sound is always a compromise. My cabs have a pretty flat response so most of my sound comes from the fingers/bass/preamp, and so in theory it'll sound very similar coming out of the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERMITNT Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 My God that PA is something ... Imagine your bass sound through this!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_the_bass Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 [quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='521511' date='Jun 23 2009, 10:42 AM']What happens if you play guitar AND bass though ? [/quote] Puts hand up. I think about this sort of stuff and only this morning had a conversation to the effect that it doesn't matter a feck really. I think we were talking in relation to acoustic guitars and preamps and true acoustic tones being quite difficult to achieve and my whole thoughts are that most of your audience will either i) not give a toss or ii) won't notice when the band kicks in anyway. I have true bypass effects not because they're true bypass, but because they just happen to be true bypass - I have a set of Harma Cryo preamp valves in my Mesa - not because of the tone they help to produce, but because the bloke I bought the amp off put them in there. I did put a Celestion in my Laney, but that was mainly because the original speaker just sounded a bit - well - crap really. Never stop thinking about this sort of stuff, because at the end of the day, it gives us all something to talk about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddys nose Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Was it not John Enwistle who was gob smacked the first time he heard the FOH sound in the middle '70's and how it was so different from his radical stage sound, In the end everyone is at the mercy of the soundman (Lucky that I'm the Sound Man ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 [quote]Have a wall of 4x10's and watch the bodies drop![/quote] Seem to remember Ted Nugent doing this at Reading in the late seventies, a wall of Marshall combos stacked behind him and the band. Awesome sight ! He claimed his proudest moment came when he got a complaint about the noise from 5 miles away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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