Lightweight Sub-Woofers

[Happy Jack]

OK, OK, I realise that this is pretty much a contradiction in terms, but does such a thing as a decent, lightweight sub-woofer actually exist?

 

I am NOT interested in sooper-dooper FRFR systems ... I am after a sub that I can use with a pair of QSC CP8s in small pubs & clubs, something that weighs less than 40lbs, something that will not be used at very high volumes but needs to cope with a low B without blinking (or melting).

 

 

 

 

[Chienmortbb]

Wharfedale Pro T-Sub AX12 21Kgs or 46lbs. They are made to match their Typhon 8AXF which has a similar spec to your QSCs.

[Dan Dare]

How much do you want to spend? The rule is light, capable, cheap - pick any two. QSC, RCF, Yamaha and others offer quality lightweight subs, but they aren't cheap.

[Happy Jack]

After a lot of research, I went uber-cheap.

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/citronic/casa-10ba/active-10-sub-300w-rms/dp/LS06176

 

I don't actually need 'capable' and I already own more high-quality PA kit than is good for a man; what I need is 'suitable for tiny playing areas, usually in venues with lousy acoustics' where all that matters is form factor and (above all) light weight.

 

I'd never take a Citronic 1x10 sub to a serious gig, given that I already own two 2x10 subs and a 1x15 sub, and more importantly most of my gigs have no need for a sub-woofer at all. But I always have a benchmark tiny pub in mind, the sort of place where there's nowhere near enough room for the band / there's a 5'7" ceiling / the bar is five feet in front of the band / the load-in is a complete nightmare. My benchmark used to be The Red Lion in Leighton Buzzard, then it was The White Hart in Chalfont St Peter, and now it's The Load Of Hay in Bushey Heath.

 

Places like this need tiny speakers for all sorts of reasons, so I can use my QSC CP8 monitor wedges as PA tops instead but obvs they really don't handle bass very well. A tiny, lightweight, lowish-quality sub is exactly what I need to re-balance the system. @Chienmortbb suggested the Wharfdale and I'm actually a fan of their stuff but it weighs 21Kg so is only marginally lighter than the 23Kg MarkAudio units I already have.

 

Where the Citronix scores is that it weighs just over 16Kg. Because of the handle placement it's still a 2-handed lift, but a very easy one. I can still manage the Mark Audio units but it's getting harder every year to lift those buggers into the back of the car and then manoevre them around. 🙄

[Phil Starr]

Have you already bought? If so it's too late but looking at this makes me ask the question is a cheap 10" speaker actually going to be 'better' than the two good quality 8's you have in the QSC's?

 

My thinking is that this cab is made of MDF which is excellent for cabs but just about the heaviest material you could use so that it means the speaker has a reasonably lightweight magnet. To get decent efficiency and low frequency extension you kind of need a big magnet. I haven't got time at the moment but could look at the QSC's to see if they might not do the job alone without the subs. I've used them at open mics for bass and been surprised at how capable they are. My thinking is that these tiny pubs (and I have my own in mind, The Green Dragon) often are pretty awful spaces and deep bass is unwanted. Cramped spaces means you are up against walls and low ceilings which reinforce the bass as well as turning it to mush.

 

Basically I can put in some specs for a decent 8 and a cheap 10 into winISD and speculate upon which might do best with bass. If you've already bought then just trying them out would be better of course.

[Happy Jack]

Already bought Phil, and with my eyes wide open. If I've screwed up then at least I can't lose too much money on a £200 sub. 😉

 

We've used the CP8s at The Load Of Hay once already and it's pretty clear that they're on the lightweight side ... not a criticism, just recognition that we're deliberately 'mis-using' them.

 

We have a gig next weekend at a much larger pub but one where the space allotted to the band is about as big as your dining table, so I really wanted to get the sub on board in time for that gig.

 

[Phil Starr]

I think you will be fine. Our ears aren't great at hearing sub 120Hz so the quality of the subs is going to be less than crucial. I've done gigs at excruciating sound levels with some ancient JBL 125W subs and they did add something and spared the tops a little too, so job done. If you bought these online then you've got a return period to reject it and a chance to try it out at home so the risks are almost zero.

 

Is Sylvie able to record some of the gig? it would be great to know how you get on with the sub, on spec it is the bargain of the moment. It might be a great cab to mod too. For well under £100 you could put in a reasonable neo driver and maybe save a kilo or two whilst improving the performance. Anyway I'd love to know how you get on with it. Hope it works out

[Al Krow]

Appreciate that @Happy Jack was already sorted before I happened on his thread, however also an ongoing topic of interest for me! I've come across 3 subs which could also tick the box, which may be of wider interest:

 

Behringer B1200D Pro - 500 W RMS 19.5kg / 43 lbs £239

Subzero 2 x 10 - 600W RMS (I've asked G4M for the weight) - normally £500, currently on sale at £380

dB Tech 612 - 600W 19.8kg / 44 lbs £395

 

No idea how decent any of these are, so if anyone has had experience of any of these, I'd be very interested to know?

Edited Sunday at 18:57 by Al Krow

[Happy Jack]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

Is Sylvie able to record some of the gig? it would be great to know how you get on with the sub, on spec it is the bargain of the moment. It might be a great cab to mod too. For well under £100 you could put in a reasonable neo driver and maybe save a kilo or two whilst improving the performance. Anyway I'd love to know how you get on with it. Hope it works out

 

@Silvia Bluejay won't be at the next Load Of Hay gig but she will be at the one I mentioned and she will be recording it, so that should be very doable.

 

[Happy Jack]

25 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Subzero 2 x 10 - 1,200W RMS (I've asked G4M for the weight)

 

Pretty sure that's 21Kg.

[Al Krow]

43 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

Pretty sure that's 21Kg.

 

Thanks - doesn't seem to be any info online? But, if that's the case, that could make it a serious contender with 2 speakers each delivering 600W RMS.

 

Scrap that, apparently the power module delivers 600W RMS so that will be split between the two speakers, and its claim of 2,400W peak is pretty far-fetched.

Edited Sunday at 18:58 by Al Krow

[Dan Dare]

Bit of a misleading question then, asking us "does such a thing as a decent, lightweight sub-woofer actually exist?". I took "decent" to mean "capable" (not an unreasonable assumption), but it turns out you don't actually need 'capable'. Silly me, eh?

 

I'm impressed that you posted yesterday, then managed to do "a lot of research" and also buy a sub, all in the space of 24 hours. Why bother asking on here in that case?

 

Had you told us you already had a MarkAudio sub', we'd have likely suggested sticking with that (I would). 23kg is hardly a behemoth. I'm 72 and have no trouble schlepping my Fohhn XS22, at 25kg.

[Happy Jack]

Sorry to have wasted your valuable time, Dan. Please feel free to ignore my future posts on this or other subjects. 🙂

[Downunderwonder]

Bill Fitzmaurice subs are very light, but they chew up pack space. They all make gobs of 60hz for your low B.

 

Nothing makes 30hz in useful amounts.

[synthaside]

In a flash of either brilliance or stupidity , I'm actually using a my old markbass cmd121p combo amp as our sub .. with the Tweetr disconnected inside, it seems to really supercharge the limited low end from our  singers  previously vocal only Yamaha stage pass 500. The combo has t been working a treat ...  ... Has XLR in and It's light powerful and expandable  with the second cab on the left side. 

 

I'm sure we loosing lots of sub 40hz  frequency from it not being a real sub but they are compact loud and super portable and don't have pole sockets but other than that I'm struggling to see any downside.

 

Our setup with this also has janky old two 80s  peavy active 15 wedges  'which also sounds great .. but look ancient ..  so much so the guitarist went out and bought a second one to match when we found the first as a giveaway on Facebook marketplace 

Edited yesterday at 08:30 by synthaside

[Al Krow]

On 07/10/2025 at 09:29, synthaside said:

In a flash of either brilliance or stupidity , I'm actually using a my old markbass cmd121p combo amp as our sub .. with the Tweetr disconnected inside, it seems to really supercharge the limited low end from our  singers  previously vocal only Yamaha stage pass 500. The combo has t been working a treat ...  ... Has XLR in and It's light powerful and expandable  with the second cab on the left side. 

 

I'm sure we loosing lots of sub 40hz  frequency from it not being a real sub but they are compact loud and super portable and don't have pole sockets but other than that I'm struggling to see any downside.

 

Our setup with this also has janky old two 80s  peavy active 15 wedges  'which also sounds great .. but look ancient ..  so much so the guitarist went out and bought a second one to match when we found the first as a giveaway on Facebook marketplace 

 

Such a neat idea! And obviously the combo can double up as a bass amp, if needed on separate occassions / home use. Super compact and portable too!

 

It turns on its head the approach of the PA providing support to backline, working the other way around. Sub 40 Hz is pretty flubby anyway. Kick drum at 50 Hz is the big target here I would have thought?

 

I guess a refinement might be to set cross over frequencies on the desk, directing the lower frequencies to the combo eg up to 100 Hz and everything above that to the PA tops?

 

I've not seen this approach suggested elsewhere, but conceptually I love it.

 

Be very interested to hear from a couple of our resident experts such as @Bill Fitzmaurice and @Phil Starr on why this is bad idea, before seeing if I can bag a used CMD121P (always wanted an excuse to get one, haha!)

Edited 8 hours ago by Al Krow

[synthaside]

I've been pretty impressed both the sound and simplicity of load in /setup , but my ask has been the back room of the dog and duck rather than  Knebworth / Wembley , Were running at about 30% of what the thing could put out.

I'm being relatively careful not to damage anything in case there was something wrong and my back of a fag pack understanding could lead to damage

The Setup  > Old ebay special Soundcraft  Mixer  > Main outs  into the Poweramp of a Yammy StagePass  , back at the mixer   1 of 3 aux outs to the markbass Combo , (Sits behind me ) with a nice long speakon round the back of the drummer where my second NY121  cab sits.  
I mix a more " bass  and vocal heavy Mix to this feed as (i don't have anything fancy to do a crossover, )  " and less of  myself out the mains " , The other 2 aux outs go to some 80's area powered wedges on the floor which the guitarists both stand at with a " them heavy " feed.       


We snap a Photo of the Mixer dials and EQ  in case anything gets jogged .... but were just basically adjusting 1  bloody big slider  to suit the size of the space.
 

Edited 5 hours ago by synthaside

[Phil Starr]

I'm not criticising anybody Al  I've done many a bodge over the years when money was tight and I needed a practical solution. I'd rather be constructive and help people squeeze a little more out of what they have or save them money when it is tight by counselling against a purchase that won't help. Trying out what you have makes sense. If it works then it isn't wrong but maybe just a bit less than ideal.

 

In this case the lackof a crossover and the positionng of the speakers worries me a little. The idea of a bass cab as a sub not at all.

 

Without a crossover all the bass from the amp is going to the tops and the main reason for a sun is to divert the bass away from the tops so they can be worked harder and cleaner for the mids and highs. You can pick up used crossovers for maybe £50 so adding one at some stage could be a consideration. Having your bass amp behind the mic line with vocals going through it means the vocal mic will pick up amplified vocals. On some stages that will lead to more chance of feedback and it does muddy the vocals anyway. It may be that the bass energy for the audience is worth having and trading it for the downsides still gives a better sound after everything is taken into account. Getting a crossover and putting the bass cab in front of the mic line would be better and a crossover is going to be cheaper than a new sub so maybe that is the next purchase.

[Al Krow]

 

Thanks Phil and I was getting somewhere similar with my thinking this afternoon:

 

positives

- combos can be light!

- ability to use existing kit (and great that @synthaside is getting benefit from his set up - something has gotta be better than nothing, right?)

 

neutral

- cost of combo comparable to subs

 

negatives

- limited speaker excursion on bass combos vs dedicated subs

- only really interested in the sub delivering 30Hz to 110Hz and the combo is not designed to excel in volume at these frequencies (see chart above for illustrative representation)