arabassist Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hey, My 'problem' is that i don't know what level i'm at right now. I've been playing for a year now, been using the same bass since i started. i always thought i was sh**e, but after playing in front of some guitarists and then a couple of bassists ive been told im far ahead for the amount of time ive been playing. the same compliment i get each time is that my finger picking is very good and very flexible. I was wondering how other people assess themselves and decide what 'level' they are at? or should i ignore this and simply keep practicing harder and enjoy it more? to give you an idea of what i can do, i can play songs like: californication, if, hard to concentrate by RHCP, a lot of songs by RATM such as bombtrack, and other random stuff i pick up. i find it hard to pick up notes by ear, tho im good at figuring out rhythm (i think im half-tone-deaf :|). i find it almost impossible to write music or simply improvise something when jamming. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Its definately a difficult question. But, does it really need answering? If you've only been playing a year then i'm sure you're still progressing weekly, if not daily. Are you happy with the way you are progressing? Is there anything you cant do that you would like to be able to? I think these are the important questions! Also, If your not already, get yourself in a band and playing regularly with other people. For me it was the biggest gauge of where i needed to improve. Keep going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arabassist Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 I think im progressing quite slowly. i tend to have phases where i learn a lot of songs and some new techniques, and then suddenly stop for a few weeks. i would love to be better at slapping (i believe thats a problem with my bass) and tapping. i have a lot of musician friends but they're all g-tard loving knobs who dont appreciate bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 When I was learning, it wasn't about how good I was, it was more about what I could learn next I was always going for the next unplayable song until I could nail it. I always remember being in a music shop as a spotty teenager really wishing I could play Sussudio. I completely forgot about it untit a couple of years later I came across a Phil Collins album and tried it again and found I could play it You're as good as you are - pretty unspectacular response but there ain't no figures you can put on 'goodness' like you can measure a car's 0-60. There's always going to be someone you think is better than you, no matter how long or hard you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_sak Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I get what you mean. I've been playing for a few years myself, 3 now actually, and have no idea what level i'm at either. It is a very hard question to answer and i've often thought that doing 'Grades' might help answer but then i also think that grades don't assess how into music you are. I played the cornet for years and got to grade 3 (just failed 4) then stopped played for several years and picked it up again recently and i think i play it better now than i ever did then. Though by the 'grading' standard i'll be quite low down. So yeah, grades might give you a standard to judge yourself by but i think you might just want to set yourself songs you want to learn and keep practising till you're of a standard to play those songs. Also work on your improv. it really does help if there's someone you can play with, like i know a drummer and i've been in loads of bands with him and jam with him in various ways as much as possible and we can, i feel, 'read' each others playing. (does that make sense?). So if there's someone you know you can jam with then try and play with them if you can and start jamming with them. That may be easier said than done, someone i know who plays keyboards has only just started jamming and they've been playing/been taught for years but some other people take to it really easily. I hope that makes sense? Try and find someone to jam with and if you want to hear some excellent jamming then listen to jazz. (Roland Kirk.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 How good are you now? Not as good as you'll be in a year. Join a band - best way to speed up your development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) Can you play the stuff you want to play? If so, then you are good enough. Bear in mind very few musicians reach this level. In the mean time (probably the rest of your life), if people like to hear you play, and other musicians would like you to play with them, then you are doing well. Do your best to continue doing well. If you want to play at trade shows, learn to slap and tap. If you want to play on youtube, buy a loop sampler pedal. If you want to play in a prog rock band, buy a bass with more than six strings (everybody else in those bands seems to get along fine with standard instruments, but bassists are the most important musicians in prog rock bands). If you want to play in a wedding band, cut your hair and develop an appreciation for Take That, start referring to yourself as a professional musician. If you want to play in a tribute band, learn to roughly approximate the relevant songs in a half-arsed style, buy gear ten times more expensive than the band you are paying tribute to, start referring to yourself as a professional musician. If you want to play your own music, buy what you can afford, expect to receive criticism from old people who gave up when their own music wasn't good enough to get them gigs at Wembley, who decided to play in more lucrative "professional" bands. Edited June 13, 2009 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='512591' date='Jun 13 2009, 04:30 AM']In the mean time (probably the rest of your life), if people like to hear you play, and other musicians would like you to play with them, then you are doing well.[/quote] That's one of the most accurate and comprehensive posts I've seen. Nice one. I picked up a bass for the first time three and a half years ago (see - the "half" still matters to me!) and spent a lot of time wondering how good I was. Being asked to play at a good-quality local jam session, then being invited to join a band by a bunch of musicians who are clearly better than me ... that told me I was doing something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arabassist Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 haha nice one thenameistaken. and yes i do understand what you mean ash_sak. a few guitarists have offered to jam with me - i've only seriously jammed with one, mainly cos we were preparing a cover of Metallica's 'Orion' to play for our 6th form leaver's day (and then i got expelled...) i admit, that did inspire me and push me to be of standard of the guitarist who's been playing since he was conceived or something. I just bought myself a squier vintage jazz so that should help me get more into slap and tap and discover the new sounds of the beast. i'll try to do some jamming with other musicians .....and then buy a 12 string and play in a prog rock band...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_sak Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='arabassist' post='512633' date='Jun 13 2009, 09:53 AM']haha nice one thenameistaken. and yes i do understand what you mean ash_sak. a few guitarists have offered to jam with me - i've only seriously jammed with one, mainly cos we were preparing a cover of Metallica's 'Orion' to play for our 6th form leaver's day (and then i got expelled...) i admit, that did inspire me and push me to be of standard of the guitarist who's been playing since he was conceived or something. I just bought myself a squier vintage jazz so that should help me get more into slap and tap and discover the new sounds of the beast. i'll try to do some jamming with other musicians .....and then buy a 12 string and play in a prog rock band......[/quote] I can't say i agree with your idea of a 12 string but the rest sounds like a good idea. Being able to improvise is a great skill but it can only really come from playing with other people, or playing with something. Improvising on your own can be really hard to judge how 'good' it is cause it's just you playing and, if you're like me, whatever you do will sound good just cause you like doing it, but as soon as you try it with someone it's utter crap. Just do what you enjoy, sod how 'good' you are so long as it's still enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='arabassist' post='512562' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:12 AM']Hey, My 'problem' is that i don't know what level i'm at right now. I've been playing for a year now, been using the same bass since i started. i always thought i was sh**e, but after playing in front of some guitarists and then a couple of bassists ive been told im far ahead for the amount of time ive been playing. the same compliment i get each time is that my finger picking is very good and very flexible. I was wondering how other people assess themselves and decide what 'level' they are at? or should i ignore this and simply keep practicing harder and enjoy it more? to give you an idea of what i can do, i can play songs like: californication, if, hard to concentrate by RHCP, a lot of songs by RATM such as bombtrack, and other random stuff i pick up. i find it hard to pick up notes by ear, tho im good at figuring out rhythm (i think im half-tone-deaf :|). i find it almost impossible to write music or simply improvise something when jamming. cheers[/quote] I know it sounds stupid,but are you just playing from tab? and copying basslines by ear or can you improvise ,you will need to be able to do this to have a proper jam,i would say this is the turning point for guitarists and bassists.Once you have learnt to use a few well known scales and modes and how to apply them you can get by in most band situations,and construct your own lines. Edited June 14, 2009 by YouMa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I started playing at 19, so a late starter? I wanted to get out of the bedroom and into the rehearsal room ASAP, so I played every day for about 4-5 hours, playing along to all of my records and learning a little theory (anyone remember The Henry Thomas Bass Book with the cassette?). I joined a band after a month of playing, I was rubbish but I was determined to get better. I'm 43 now and still learning and improving. The only way to develop is to play with other musicians and if they are better than you, then that will be an added advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Get in a band......its as simple as. The only way to find out how 'able' (not good) you are is to do the task at hand in a band situation.... Maybe you cant find a band,then play along with records,you need to be in playing states that push you,make you try to achieve.... Take a record,by a band you really really like,and learn it,in/out/every nuance ..and mistake,of which you will find quite a few...learn all the lines,till you can nail it in your sleep....learn to read music,the technology of music changes,and what ebbs/flows as 'popular'..like you own personal tastes will change,but notes never do,it the one of musics few constants. If people are saying you are doing well,then take it as,there's nowt much dramatic happening and you are doing well,there's always something to learn...a riff or lick to cop from,a technique,a style to try out,a tune to take an idea from.... There is sadly no yardstick to measure what good is....as long as you are capable,reliable,and able..then in my book thats good. DONT STOP LEARNING!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think it's a sensible question. There's so many aspects to music - some of which will be relevant to you, so of which won't - that coming up with a sensible "score" is impossible. Speaking for myself, I've actually lost track of how long I have been playing but it's less than 10 years and I am in my forties. I try to practice every day - somewhere between 10 minutes and an hour typically. I have a vague notion of getting better in the aspects that I practice. Of course, I'm no better in the areas that I don't. In the last five years I've very rarely not been in a band that pays me to play. So I'm "good enough" for something. On the other hand I've know bass players who practice 10 hours a day for the last 15 years and the depth and breadth of their skill leaves me in the dust. I will never have that level of skill because I don't want to spend the time. So what I am I saying? The more you practice and the more stuff you practice the better you'll be. But it's a journey between zero and infinity and you're always much nearer to zero than you want to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Who cares, just have fun and the rest will fall into place :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_sak Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='YouMa' post='512863' date='Jun 13 2009, 04:51 PM']I know it sounds stupid,but are you just playing from tab? and copying basslines by ear or can you improvise ,you will need to be able to this to have a proper jam,i would say this is the turning point for guitarists and bassists.Once you have learnt to use a few well known scales and modes and how to apply them you can get by in most band situations,and construct your own lines.[/quote] I'd kinda agree with that bit about learning modes n scales n that. I'm awful at theory, i did a bit when i played the cornet but when it comes to jamming i just do what 'feels' right. People often say 'what key are you playing in' and i have absolutly no idea. My point is that either jam so you can just 'feel' what's good and bad or learn the modes and then fit it in with the improv. part (which makes more sense if you're gonna try and go up to other musicians n ask to jam, whereas i've been playing with the same people for years so then know i dont have a clue about theory). I did once play with another group of people and they tried to get me to play in a key and i had no idea what they were on about, which didn't give the best impression. Though they were also playing jazz, which sounds good but i hadn't really played any before so yeah... Edited June 13, 2009 by ash_sak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_of_the_bass Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='513024' date='Jun 13 2009, 10:40 PM']Who cares, just have fun and the rest will fall into place :0)[/quote] Absolutely! My philosophy: 1. Play in tune 2. Play in time 3. Buy as many basses as you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 [quote]My philosophy: 1. Play in tune 2. Play in time 3. Buy as many basses as you can![/quote] Throw in a few pedals with the above and you have a text book GAS attack recipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) I would definately try and learn at least your movable pentatonic scale,otherwise you will not be able to play in a composing band. Its simple and pattern based just stay in the boxes of the pattern and make sure your timings good. Edited June 14, 2009 by YouMa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 [quote name='ash_sak' post='513039' date='Jun 13 2009, 11:23 PM']I'm awful at theory, i did a bit when i played the cornet but when it comes to jamming i just do what 'feels' right. People often say 'what key are you playing in' and i have absolutly no idea.[/quote] Blunt alert..... I hear this a lot and it's complete bollox. It'll take you half an hour to learn what the basic scales are, what basic chords and arpeggios are and another half an hour to learn to play them. This is pretty much 95% of the theory you will ever need, it's dead easy and will stop you looking like an idiot when playing with other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EskimoBassist Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='512589' date='Jun 13 2009, 03:13 AM']Join a band - best way to speed up your development.[/quote] +1 Join a band full of musicians who are a lot better than you. From personal experience, that's the best way to become a better player and quickly too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='513128' date='Jun 14 2009, 07:22 AM']Blunt alert..... I hear this a lot and it's complete bollox. It'll take you half an hour to learn what the basic scales are, what basic chords and arpeggios are and another half an hour to learn to play them. This is pretty much 95% of the theory you will ever need, it's dead easy and will stop you looking like an idiot when playing with other people.[/quote] Yeh I would agree with this. Learning the bass should be like learning any instrument if you want to get good at it. Scales are hugely important and definitely shouldn't be viewed as a mundane task, they help you get your ear together, think about chord patterns and passing notes, and help your dexterity. Aside from that, I think it's easy to think that technical ability is the be all and end all of being a musician. It's really not. Slapping and tapping and whatever have their place but it's easy to forget that you are first and foremost a bass player, and have to have a good knowledge of how to keep things firmly rooted in a band situation. But I don't mean to be massively patronising about it, technique is very important... it's just that I think you shouldn't lose sight of the fact that your technique should simply be an extension of your theoretical and musical ability. You don't have to prove anything to anyone if you're happy with yourself as a bass player. You can be your worst own critic at times, but if you put effort into learning something then your skill as a musician will very much be an unspoken, but widely realised thing amongst other musicians that have heard you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='513128' date='Jun 14 2009, 07:22 AM']Blunt alert..... I hear this a lot and it's complete bollox. It'll take you half an hour to learn what the basic scales are, what basic chords and arpeggios are and another half an hour to learn to play them. This is pretty much 95% of the theory you will ever need, it's dead easy and will stop you looking like an idiot when playing with other people.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 This only becomes an issue when you want to play with different musicians or move on to different type of music. In addition, your opinion of how good you are is always different to someone else's opinion of how good you are. If you're able to play all the stuff you enjoy playing, then you're doing great. If you'd sh*t yourself if Larry Carlton or Steve Lukather asked you to get up and jam, then you're not at their level. Why worry. I have no doubt when you listen to other bassplayers in clubs and pubs etc, you subconciously know what level you're at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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