Backing Vocal Levels?

[Chienmortbb]

What level do you set you backing vocals compared to the lead vocals?  I have seen -6dB me mentioned but I trust the collected wisdom on here more.

[Al Krow]

I guess the principle is that BVs should be secondary in prominence to the lead vox.

 

But that will always depend on:

- how strong the singers are relatively (key variable);

- what mics they are using.

 

Given the first of these, not sure it's possible to give a general rule?

[Lozz196]

For me I like terrace style backing vox and them to be loud, which given I do punk/Oi it`s pretty much a requirement, whereas some singers say that bvs should be a supplementary sound and remain in the background. I think really the levels need to be set to accommodate the strength of the voices - some people who do bvs have a much stronger voice than the lead singer, so you have to keep them down further on levels. I suppose really what I`m trying to say is set by ear.

[police squad]

yep I do it by ear

But in my bands, everyone is good at balancing their voices with mine, I'm lucky really, they're all good singers

[BassAdder60]

I think it depends on the band, songs etc 

For example The Jam I’m sure Bruce had vocal levels very near or equal to Paul, sounds like it at times 

 

For harmonies etc less volume I think is normal sitting under the main vocals. 
Levels are one thing but mic control etc is another skill in itself ! 
 Then of course male / female vocalists mix can play a part as I find female lead singers can often be drowned out 

[BigRedX]

This is a creeping problem that I alluded to in my last post on the amps as stage props thread - that of mixing by numbers and with your eyes rather than your ears. 

 

It's completely down to the strength of the individual voices, what mics are being used and what the overall effect should be. There is no one size fits all solution. Mix with your ears and set the levels (and EQ) appropriately.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

-3 to -6dB is a reasonable target, but the only way to know if you're hitting that target is if your console has individual channel level meters. 

[JapanAxe]

I’m quite often alternating between lead and backing vocals on the same gig. If I’m singing lead I go in close on the mic; for BVs I back off to around 15cm (6in).

[Chienmortbb]

Thanks guys, some good advice. 
 

My mic, a Sontronics Solo, has a high output, the other two, one SM58 and one XM8500 are lower. However once the gain is set I can use the channel meters to ride the virtual faders to achieve what I want. I rather think I sing louder than our lead vocalist so I need to be aware of that, and put guitarist will not get close to the mic 😔

 

We had a disaster last gig (see how was your PA) and I have wrestled control from the lead singer, with the backing of the rest of the band. 
 

I will let you know how it goes on Sunday/Monday. 

 

[BassAdder60]

We would sound check every gig and the singer ( female ) used IEM and every time first song in people said the vocals were too quiet ! 
Many factors play a part, crowd noise, adrenaline, and IEM when only the singer uses them !  

[Woodinblack]

A bit down so it isn't as loud as the main vocals. It can't be a figure, because it depends on the singer.

[Phil Starr]

It's never going to be easy to get right if you are mixing from on stage. You can set levels on a sound check and as soon as the adrenaline sets in as the set starts the singer will up their volume. I've rarely met a singer who doesn't up the db's once the gig starts so you are always guessing when you set the levels. Volume for bv's also depends upon the song, there are parts when you want your singers to be the same volume and parts where the lead vocal needs to be heard over the backing. You might be doing call and return on one part of the song and want equal volumes, harmonies in another part and gentle oohs and aahs in the background later. Your singers need to practice their parts and control their own volume which is also an artistic decision. We rehearse sometimes with the PA pointing back at us so we hear the front of house sound and you have to practice and listen to get the relative volumes right. You also have to get monitoring right, if you can't hear what each other are doing then you can't really match volumes appropriately. I aim to set the gain so everyone is equal on the loudest parts and let the singers sort out for themselves who should be the loudest in any given part of the song. I like to record the perfomances from time to time, You soon pick up who is hiding in the mix and who is too fond of their own voice and can make necessary adjustments, In the end though there is nothing much you can do with people who don't practice singing together unless you are sitting at the desk out front, even then some bands are a dream to mix and others are just hard work.

 

If it's any consolation @Chienmortbb in your opening few songs on Saturday I commented to Mike that the harmony parts were working well until your PA meltdown.

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Phil Starr