Darkglass Anagram

[admiralchew]

Just now, Kev said:

 

That wasn't the worst of it for me.  Sure, releasing his own pedals with almost identical construction in and out so soon after the split and not expecting backlash was very naive, that and telling fibs about the reasons behind it (being stuck with "predrilled" enclosures that somehow had the PSU socket in a different position from the corresponding DG pedal...), but when Spencer started selling off Darkglass prototypes as his own for profit because "he designed them", I lost all respect for him and the brand, haven't used anything 3Leaf since.

 

All that being said, the animosity was between Doug and Spencer, rather than Darkglass, who have since become a huge company owned by Korg, and I highly doubt programming a Doom 2 model was revenge or getting him back, its just a popular pedal that's very hard to get hold of.  From what I've heard, it completely nails it too.

That’s interesting extra background and a very good point about Korg making the running rather than Doug

 

I’m still interested in an Anagram. I’m more in pedal-selling mode for now but I think 2026 may be the anagram year for me.

[MrDinsdale]

2 hours ago, admiralchew said:

I'm a bit torn about that. I've been quite interested in an Anagram and I have to admit that having a Doom 2 on board is enticing. It just feels a bit odd to put boutique pedals on it. I wonder where the line is (if there is a line).

 

It's obviously okay for Darkglass to put a dent in their physical pedal sales by including their own pedals. There are also a lot of copies of big muffs, mu-trons and other pedals made by large-scale manufacturers. I don't think the case for inclusion is as clear cut as the Darkglass pedals but these pedals have been copied a lot already so the cat is out the bag (Musitronics recently made a joking post about wanting the name of Klon's lawyers challenging Behringer so there is a degree of frustration). There isn't much recourse in law to protect the circuit designs and I've definitely had a lot of third-party versions of original pedals (I've got a Meatball and had a FTe version too) so I'm already torn. Adding a boutique-builder's pedal feels a bit different. I wouldn't want John Snyder at EAE, Dave Jordan at Non-Human Audio or Taylor Livingstone at Iron Ether to decide that there's no point trying to sell units or develop a new pedal if it'll be the next FaT Model, Low Snoris or Deluxe Zerograph (or some catchier version of the name) on the Anagram.

 

As @Kev alluded to, there's some extra history between Darkglass and Spencer. My understanding was that there was an unamicable split and, left with a lot of enclosures which Spencer had purchased for the purposes of assembling Darkglass pedals (and which were not of the type used in the existing 3 Leaf pedals which had bespoke enclosures), he decided to build them out and sell them under the Pike Amplification brand. There seemed a lot of bad blood on forums about that and I can't admit to knowing any more than the above (again gleaned from forums) but the Vulcan is still my favourite overdrive, and I've owned the Vintage Microtubes, Microtubes X, B7K Ultra, ADAM and still have the Alpha Omicron from the Darkglass line, and to my ears the Vulcan seemed to sound quite different to each of the Darkglass line up, with just the history and shape of the enclosure suggesting a tie between the two.

 

Anyway, apologies for derailing the Anagram thread with these musings! Happy New Year to all (and enjoy the Anagram to anyone that has one!)!

 

 

Yeah I’m still not sure how I feel about stuff like that. Doesn’t bother me as much for bigger gear manufacturers, certainly not when the gear that’s being modelled is out of production. Even products that are wildly out of the budget for most people to contemplate like the Nobel where it’s unlikely to impact sales.

 

Captures don’t bother me much either, I’ve bought gear based on using captures that otherwise I would’ve been waaaaay less likely to splash out on.

 

Large businesses modelling gear made by smaller boutique builders feels pretty unethical to me.

[joeabass]

In other news the new orange amp is very good. Gigging on silent stage with IEM so relying on anagram for a convincing amp tone and this is nailing it, probably my favourite model in here now 

[markbunney]

20 hours ago, joeabass said:

In other news the new orange amp is very good. Gigging on silent stage with IEM so relying on anagram for a convincing amp tone and this is nailing it, probably my favourite model in here now 

My Anagram arrived a couple of days ago, but haven’t had chance to try it yet.

 

I used to have the Orange Terror bass amp, so am keen to try that new model

[thisisswanbon]

Long time lurker - first time poster after buying a shiny new Anagram earlier this week!

 

Loving it so far, but the drives sounded a bit "dull" through my amp, fine through IEMS (I use backline and FOH) - any pointers for this?

 

Also, the PSU seems a bit flimsy, especially for the cost... anyone had any joy powering with a power bank?  There's some stuff on talkbass but nothing I can see that mentions real world use...

[tayste_2000]

25 minutes ago, thisisswanbon said:

Also, the PSU seems a bit flimsy, especially for the cost... anyone had any joy powering with a power bank?  There's some stuff on talkbass but nothing I can see that mentions real world use...

I use mine with a GigRig I picked up second hand for cheap. Gives me IEC and plenty of ma.

Outside of that I generally power it via usb c with whatever I’m using for my iPad and have nearby. Any battery that will do PD (Power Delivery) will power it, just need to specifically look for that PD output.

 

I’ve just ordered the Darkglass Midi switch after some friends gifted me a Thomann Voucher for Christmas so excited to incorporate that. Mostly so it can sit on my desk so I can fiddle with it but then still turn stuff on and off when playing or even be as bold as to use the looper.

 

The Mood fuzz is great, very quick and easy to dial in an hitting a tone I’ve been using a Subdecay Noise Theory nam for.

 

I wish I had something more intelligent or articulate to offer but the Anagram is just doing everything I need, I’ve gigged it twice, run it as an iem mixer and all my fx, since I got my Punchline nam into it, it’s been perfect.

 

Might even be listing the last of my pedals for sale soon.

[thisisswanbon]

4 minutes ago, tayste_2000 said:

I use mine with a GigRig I picked up second hand for cheap. Gives me IEC and plenty of ma.

Outside of that I generally power it via usb c with whatever I’m using for my iPad and have nearby. Any battery that will do PD (Power Delivery) will power it, just need to specifically look for that PD output.

 

I’ve just ordered the Darkglass Midi switch after some friends gifted me a Thomann Voucher for Christmas so excited to incorporate that. Mostly so it can sit on my desk so I can fiddle with it but then still turn stuff on and off when playing or even be as bold as to use the looper.

 

The Mood fuzz is great, very quick and easy to dial in an hitting a tone I’ve been using a Subdecay Noise Theory nam for.

 

I wish I had something more intelligent or articulate to offer but the Anagram is just doing everything I need, I’ve gigged it twice, run it as an iem mixer and all my fx, since I got my Punchline nam into it, it’s been perfect.

 

Might even be listing the last of my pedals for sale soon.

Thanks for the input! 

 

I've had to keep hold of my C4 and OC-5 as I don't think it quite covers what they do yet - so I'm currently running those with a powerpack and using the Anagrams stock PSU. I just haven't got faith in it but nervous about going all battery for something so high powered when playing 2 hours+. 

 

How did you find the NAM?  I'm tempted to do this with my Tone Hammer but seems a bit above my technical abilities...

[MichaelDean]

Does anyone near Bristol have one I could spend some time with? Happy to book out an hour at a rehearsal space. I'm a gnats codpiece away from selling some gear to buy one. 

[tayste_2000]

2 hours ago, thisisswanbon said:

How did you find the NAM?  I'm tempted to do this with my Tone Hammer but seems a bit above my technical abilities...

I think it’s quite straightforward but I went to a studio as I wanted my levels perfectly balanced and had loads to capture, so it allowed me to do a bunch in parallel.

Edited Friday at 16:13 by tayste_2000

[PinkMohawk]

Just to confirm before I pull the trigger, £900 from Andertons or Gear 4 Music is the best deal in the UK for the Anagram, right? Want to make sure I'm not missing a trick before I spunk my money away. 

[MichaelDean]

3 hours ago, PinkMohawk said:

Just to confirm before I pull the trigger, £900 from Andertons or Gear 4 Music is the best deal in the UK for the Anagram, right? Want to make sure I'm not missing a trick before I spunk my money away. 

Seems to be. I've been tracking the prices like a hawk 😅

 

Actually, Fair Deal have it for £875

https://www.fairdealmusic.co.uk/products/darkglass-anagram-bass-multi-effects

 

Edited Monday at 06:33 by MichaelDean
Fair Deal

[PinkMohawk]

6 hours ago, MichaelDean said:

Seems to be. I've been tracking the prices like a hawk 😅

 

Actually, Fair Deal have it for £875

https://www.fairdealmusic.co.uk/products/darkglass-anagram-bass-multi-effects

 

Whelp, trigger has been pulled, and now I wait. 

[markbunney]

I have just sent mine back

 

It was an amazing bit of kit, but after spending a bit of time with it I came to the conclusion that it was just overkill for my needs.

[thisisswanbon]

2 hours ago, markbunney said:

I have just sent mine back

 

It was an amazing bit of kit, but after spending a bit of time with it I came to the conclusion that it was just overkill for my needs.

Was there anything you didn't like about it, Mark?  I love mine for home use but not totally convinced for gigging so also debating return...

 

[markbunney]

32 minutes ago, thisisswanbon said:

Was there anything you didn't like about it, Mark?  I love mine for home use but not totally convinced for gigging so also debating return...

 

I think overall it was too much for my needs, and I had concerns over taking something so expensive out for pub gigs.

 

I have nothing negative to say at all about the unit, it sounded amazing with loads of options, and it was so easy to use (probably helped by all the YouTube videos I have watched on it!!!).

 

For home rehearsal, I still have a little Boss Katana Go which does the job, and I don’t do any recording or anything like that, so ultimately it was more than I needed.

 

I was pleased to finally get to try one, after having been looking at them since they came out, and I wouldn’t rule out getting one in the future if my circumstances/requirements changed.

Edited Monday at 16:19 by markbunney
Typo

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, thisisswanbon said:

Was there anything you didn't like about it, Mark?  I love mine for home use but not totally convinced for gigging so also debating return...

 

Interested in what your main concern(s) are with it for gigging?

[walshy]

Ive just let mine go today, it was pretty good especially in the studio but I have gigged it a few times and it was 'fine' and with tweaking I thought it could be better. I used it direct to FOH at the City Hall in Newcastle last week and it was good, not magnificent. However I plugged the SVT in and the 8x8 Ampeg Cab to quickly try a bass out and my what a sound! Ive realised digital modellers are good but they are just that and nothing more. . They're never going to replicate the real deal in my eyes. Analog all the way now baby. 

[thisisswanbon]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

Interested in what your main concern(s) are with it for gigging?

For me it’s the same problem I have with every modeller in that while I love the work flow (particularly with the anagram, it’s so well thought out it blows my mind) I still hear digital; every time I kick a drive in, there’s a feel thing I just can’t put my finger on. 
 

my band plays through a line array Pa, and I use an amp for a bit of bass support but still wear IEMs, so I’m not sure what it sounds like at volume, but at sound check the drive just didn’t seem to pop to me without losing body and weight… even though my previous signal chain went through an HX One, I spend half the gig through a digital C4 AND it all goes into a digital desk anyways.

 

I’m sure I’m listening with my eyes but it’s just something I struggle to shake - sorry for the wordy overshare, Al! 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, thisisswanbon said:

For me it’s the same problem I have with every modeller in that while I love the work flow (particularly with the anagram, it’s so well thought out it blows my mind) I still hear digital; every time I kick a drive in, there’s a feel thing I just can’t put my finger on. 
 

my band plays through a line array Pa, and I use an amp for a bit of bass support but still wear IEMs, so I’m not sure what it sounds like at volume, but at sound check the drive just didn’t seem to pop to me without losing body and weight… even though my previous signal chain went through an HX One, I spend half the gig through a digital C4 AND it all goes into a digital desk anyways.

 

I’m sure I’m listening with my eyes but it’s just something I struggle to shake - sorry for the wordy overshare, Al! 

 

Thanks for sharing that. I've recently got a mint used Boss GX10, which I'm really loving in terms of its capability and form factor. Being a multifx fanboi, I've been following this thread with interest and wondering whether the step up in cost (a new GX10 is just a third the price of the Anagram) was going to deliver something "extra".

 

But I think with the number of experienced folk on this thread who have given this a decent shot and are deciding to return it, I'll head back down to the Boss multifx thread and stay buried down there a while longer.

[thisisswanbon]

13 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Thanks for sharing that. I've recently got a mint used Boss GX10, which I'm really loving in terms of its capability and form factor. Being a multifx fanboi, I've been following this thread with interest and wondering whether the step up in cost (a new GX10 is just a third the price of the Anagram) was going to deliver something "extra".

 

But I think with the number of experienced folk on this thread who have given this a decent shot and are deciding to return it, I'll head back down to the Boss multifx thread and stay buried down there a while longer.

As it happens I realised last night a p!$$ed punter at our NYD show slammed a drink down on a nearby table and it's stained the case - so I won't be returning mine regardless now 🤦‍♂️.

 

I'll add that workflow wise it takes the flexibility of the HX stomp routing and the intuitive UI of the Ampero Stomp II (my only modern multi fx experience) and improves again.  Sound wise I'd also say it's a big step up from the Stomp and Ampero (as it should be for the money). I'd say if you've got genuine interest in the unit and you're more open minded to digital than I am I think it's worth a look but I'd buy from somewhere with a good returns policy just in case

[Al Krow]

53 minutes ago, thisisswanbon said:

As it happens I realised last night a p!$$ed punter at our NYD show slammed a drink down on a nearby table and it's stained the case - so I won't be returning mine regardless now 🤦‍♂️.

 

I'll add that workflow wise it takes the flexibility of the HX stomp routing and the intuitive UI of the Ampero Stomp II (my only modern multi fx experience) and improves again.  Sound wise I'd also say it's a big step up from the Stomp and Ampero (as it should be for the money). I'd say if you've got genuine interest in the unit and you're more open minded to digital than I am I think it's worth a look but I'd buy from somewhere with a good returns policy just in case

 

Sorry to hear about the drunk punter incident. I guess no chance a good clean is going to eliminate the stain without leaving a "cleaned patch" on it?

 

"Sound wise it's a big step up from the Stomp and Ampero II" is a key comment though - that's obviously a big reason why folk might be prepared to fork out a hefty premium. Can you elaborate on the sound difference you're hearing between the Anagram and the other two and on what particular fx it's most noticeable on, for us please?

 

Edited yesterday at 09:50 by Al Krow

[thisisswanbon]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Sorry to hear about the drunk punter incident. I guess no chance a good clean is going to eliminate the stain without leaving a "cleaned patch" on it?

 

"Sound wise it's a big step up from the Stomp and Ampero II" is a key comment though - that's obviously a big reason why folk might be prepared to fork out a hefty premium. Can you elaborate on the sound difference you're hearing between the Anagram and the other two and on what particular fx it's most noticeable on, for us please?

 

Pretty much yeah - It's that awkward shade of grey that shows up any and all blemishes like you've drawn a circle around it!  It's my own fault, I should've know better... 

 

I'd say it's the amp models and cabs, Al... as seems to be the story of my morning it's a feel thing, they just seem to have more life to them without needing parameters like "sag" and "hum" to dial them in.  They're closer to captures than models though in that the SVT won't drive when you whack the gain up; but sticking a vintage microtubes and compressor in front of it does a cracking approximation. 

• The cab sims feel more musical and less dramatic once the amp blocks are EQ'd to suit. The can go into the typical more dramatic IR thing if wanted though
• The fuzzes are also brilliant, I find fuzz to be a really difficult thing for digital modellers to get right but the 3 fuzzes available are great.
• The noble block adds something more than low end, some of the newer models like he Orange and EBS blocks will give tube like saturation at low drive settings
• The pitch shifting is decent - using the pitch shift to do an octave up is nice and clear and sharp, the oc2 approximation is decent as far as digital goes

Even little things like the tuner seem well thought out - Long press to access, a footswitch for mute on/off and tap tempo at hand on third footswitch.  There were a load of updates before xmas too, Darkglass do seem really invested in this so it feels like an investment in the sense that you know most things will be incrementally improved over time.

 

Everything just feels more premium.  The best way I can explain is that to me, the HX stuff always felt flat and 2D.. like a really good drawing of what it as supposed to be, where as the the Ampero felt more like a less accurate sculpture of what it was approximating.  The Anagram feels like the best of both.

 

I'll be honest in that most of my concerns come from a) the price tag, b) previous experiences with digital and c) Only hearing it in anger through headphones so being unsure how it sounds in an FOH mix or through my amp.  I think I've just talked myself into being happy about keeping it though.. thanks Al! 😄

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, thisisswanbon said:

Pretty much yeah - It's that awkward shade of grey that shows up any and all blemishes like you've drawn a circle around it!  It's my own fault, I should've know better... 

 

I'd say it's the amp models and cabs, Al... as seems to be the story of my morning it's a feel thing, they just seem to have more life to them without needing parameters like "sag" and "hum" to dial them in.  They're closer to captures than models though in that the SVT won't drive when you whack the gain up; but sticking a vintage microtubes and compressor in front of it does a cracking approximation. 

• The cab sims feel more musical and less dramatic once the amp blocks are EQ'd to suit. The can go into the typical more dramatic IR thing if wanted though
• The fuzzes are also brilliant, I find fuzz to be a really difficult thing for digital modellers to get right but the 3 fuzzes available are great.
• The noble block adds something more than low end, some of the newer models like he Orange and EBS blocks will give tube like saturation at low drive settings
• The pitch shifting is decent - using the pitch shift to do an octave up is nice and clear and sharp, the oc2 approximation is decent as far as digital goes

Even little things like the tuner seem well thought out - Long press to access, a footswitch for mute on/off and tap tempo at hand on third footswitch.  There were a load of updates before xmas too, Darkglass do seem really invested in this so it feels like an investment in the sense that you know most things will be incrementally improved over time.

 

Everything just feels more premium.  The best way I can explain is that to me, the HX stuff always felt flat and 2D.. like a really good drawing of what it as supposed to be, where as the the Ampero felt more like a less accurate sculpture of what it was approximating.  The Anagram feels like the best of both.

 

I'll be honest in that most of my concerns come from a) the price tag, b) previous experiences with digital and c) Only hearing it in anger through headphones so being unsure how it sounds in an FOH mix or through my amp.  I think I've just talked myself into being happy about keeping it though.. thanks Al! 😄

 

Excellent outcome and you're welcome, haha!

 

I know exactly what you mean about the sound quality in the way you've described it. I've experienced the exact same thing at the other (budget) end when upgrading from my cheap-as-chips Zoom B1-4 to the more mid-range Boss GT1000 Core / GX10 (and fwiw I do prefer both of those multifx's to my own experience of Helix Stomp and HX Effects).

 

I suspect that this sound quality you mention is very much related to the processing power of the chipset in the unit (the Stomp has a relatively ancient 2015 PSU still in it, the Ampero and Boss units will be more up to date) combined with the quality of the software patches which, to their credit, Line6 have been excellent at updating.  It would be interesting to find out what the DSP capabilities are in some of the leading multis - perhaps an analogous yardstick to SPL in amps & cabs?

[thisisswanbon]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Excellent outcome and you're welcome, haha!

 

I know exactly what you mean about the sound quality in the way you've described it. I've experienced the exact same thing at the other (budget) end when upgrading from my cheap-as-chips Zoom B1-4 to the more mid-range Boss GT1000 Core / GX10 (and fwiw I do prefer both of those multifx's to my own experience of Helix Stomp and HX Effects).

 

I suspect that this sound quality you mention is very much related to the processing power of the chipset in the unit (the Stomp has a relatively ancient 2015 PSU still in it, the Ampero and Boss units will be more up to date) combined with the quality of the software patches which, to their credit, Line6 have been excellent at updating.  It would be interesting to find out what the DSP capabilities are in some of the leading multis - perhaps an analogous yardstick to SPL in amps & cabs?

I hope one day I can return the favour and start you off convincing yourself to keep gear you're unsure of! haha

 

I'm glad you understood as I expected to be banished from basschat for such a poor description! It was the ToneX stuff that made me realise that it's possible to have a bit of life in the digital realm, this just feels like a step up in execution. As you say, the line 6 stuff is heavily dated and I think bass always seems an afterthought for them... no doubt the new stadium is mind blowing!  I've noticed every iteration of line6 gear models the exact same source though so it'll reach a point where they can't go any further surely.  The boss stuff always intrigued me, but my guitarist has the GT1 multi and I hate everything about it!  Their work flow is what has always put me off them in the end...

 

Having a benchmark for comparison would be fantastic - there must be someone on here with the time, skill, knowledge and good will to do such a thing! 🤔.. I only tick one of those boxes, and it's the least important of the four I'm afraid!

[LukeFRC]

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

It would be interesting to find out what the DSP capabilities are in some of the leading multis

It's not just the DSP though, it's how it's used. Neunaber wet reverb is still good today, and that's based on FV1 chip - it's just really well programmed.